Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Conference Discussions


Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, cherryTreez said:

Is there any art on the temples? Or designs or anything beyond basic nothing?  

Oakland Temple has two massive friezes. 
 

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/church/news/the-oakland-california-temple-opens-to-community-after-renovations-before-rededication?lang=eng

Mesa’s:  https://saltriverstories.org/items/show/229

Edited by Calm
Posted
17 hours ago, Rain said:

I don't like tattoos. The thought sometimes make me physical sick.  I often feel they look like a mess. 

However, no I don't think it is necessarily the same thing, especially when we think of putting on makeup, fingernail polish and even clothes.

But even if we find those things different because they are not permanent, I feel it matters why they got it.  Met a big, rough looking guy at the gym once, but really nice and kind.  He had music on his arm.  I asked him what the song was.  It was something like Clair de Lune. He got it because the music got him through rough times. In other words if we go with your idea it was like forming a spiritual choir on the temple grounds.

But overall I don't care why people get them. Only God can specify what it was like for each person.

A good friend of my daughter growing up had a tattoo of the CTR logo on her ankle to remind her to always choose the right.  She did this prior to the whole tattoo shaming thing happened.  That caused a bit of a rock and hard place, when Choosing the Right becomes the wrong thing to do.  Very confusing to her.

Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, cherryTreez said:

Is there any art on the temples? Or designs or anything beyond basic nothing?  

I do not agree that tattooing and graffiti are art.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Posted
8 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

We're up in Everett.  There is still a lot about this State that I love and is beautiful, but the area on the West side of the mountains has become a literal sewer. It is so sad.

It broke our hearts to leave but we just couldn’t take any more of the nonsense.

Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I do not agree that tattooing and graffiti are are art.

There are many who disagree with you.

https://www.thecollector.com/graffiti-wall-art/

And at times graffiti can be crucially important art imo..

The contrast of the two sides is a very clear statement on freedom.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall_graffiti_art

image.jpeg.78ab614c58a870e476f2bd58d0fd6c40.jpeg

The two may be ill advised art at times, but I find it odd to call original and complicated constructions not art simply because of the medium.  
 

There are some stunning tattoos and some absolutely beautiful ones that I would love to wear if they could wash off. 
 

https://www.gq.com/story/six-cutting-edge-tattoo-artists/amp

Edited by Calm
Posted
12 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are many who disagree with you.

One of my housemates has a series of identical tattoos (three parallel lines) on his forearms, shoulder blades, lower back, and chest (possibly elsewhere?). He's never once mentioned anything about these, but I assume they mean something to him. He grew up in Africa and migrated when he was a teenager, so obviously they were placed on him when he was still young, possibly very young, and quite possibly against his wishes. I asked him about them once, but it was immediately clear that he didn't want me to, so I've never done it again. I can think of a dozen reasons why he may have responded that way, both positive and negative. In my opinion, there is nothing very artistic about these, but they're also very easy to miss.

My other housemate has a half-finished tattoo on one shoulder/chest/arm. He started getting it during a period of inactivity after his conversion because someone from a related background convinced him it would bring him closer to his ethnicity/culture. (He also migrated when he was in school.) Instead, he hates it. With passion. He sees it as a constant physical reminder of his wandering and wishes it would just go away. I personally think it's beautiful, but I've learnt not to say anything because of how he feels.

We also have an old woman in our ward with very intricate tattoos on her forearms. They're crude in both design and execution, and she tells everyone how much she still hates her mother for forcing her to go through that when she was a little girl for cultural reasons. (She is also a migrant.)

We also have a number of people in our ward with cultural tattoos who seem to really enjoy them. Some of them look really good to me; others do not.

Posted
25 minutes ago, Calm said:

There are many who disagree with you.

https://www.thecollector.com/graffiti-wall-art/

And at times graffiti can be crucially important art imo..

The contrast of the two sides is a very clear statement on freedom.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall_graffiti_art

image.jpeg.78ab614c58a870e476f2bd58d0fd6c40.jpeg

The two may be ill advised art at times, but I find it odd to call original and complicated constructions not art simply because of the medium.  
 

There are some stunning tattoos and some absolutely beautiful ones that I would love to wear if they could wash off. 
 

https://www.gq.com/story/six-cutting-edge-tattoo-artists/amp

 

 

I do not consider desecration and destruction of private property or bodies as art despite those who would disagree. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

 

I do not consider desecration and destruction of private property or bodies as art despite those who would disagree. 

What about the graffiti on the Berlin Wall?  Do you reject such expressions of freedom as art?

Posted

True confession: I struggle with arguments against the wrongness of body modification (including piercing and tattooing) that arise within a culture that still amputates the genital flesh of more than half of its boys.

Obviously, some American Saints are consistent in this space, but most are not.

Posted
14 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

One of my housemates has a series of identical tattoos (three parallel lines) on his forearms, shoulder blades, lower back, and chest (possibly elsewhere?). He's never once mentioned anything about these, but I assume they mean something to him. He grew up in Africa and migrated when he was a teenager, so obviously they were placed on him when he was still young, possibly very young, and quite possibly against his wishes. I asked him about them once, but it was immediately clear that he didn't want me to, so I've never done it again. I can think of a dozen reasons why he may have responded that way, both positive and negative. In my opinion, there is nothing very artistic about these, but they're also very easy to miss.

My other housemate has a half-finished tattoo on one shoulder/chest/arm. He started getting it during a period of inactivity after his conversion because someone from a related background convinced him it would bring him closer to his ethnicity/culture. (He also migrated when he was in school.) Instead, he hates it. With passion. He sees it as a constant physical reminder of his wandering and wishes it would just go away. I personally think it's beautiful, but I've learnt not to say anything because of how he feels.

We also have an old woman in our ward with very intricate tattoos on her forearms. They're crude in both design and execution, and she tells everyone how much she still hates her mother for forcing her to go through that when she was a little girl for cultural reasons. (She is also a migrant.)

We also have a number of people in our ward with cultural tattoos who seem to really enjoy them. Some of them look really good to me; others do not.

I think body art can be beautiful and highly meaningful, but it is tragic when a culture imposes it on someone young imo.  I also find it hard to believe it is healthy even when treated correctly, but the last time I researched it, the studies were mostly saying it was harmless. 
 

I just can’t imagine wanting to never be able to change appearances, like wearing the same thing day after day. And I have seen tattoos that clash with clothing, the artist and perfectionist in me cringes at those times. Body paint, henna, etc seem like a much more intelligent approach than larger tattoos to me. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

True confession: I struggle with arguments against the wrongness of body modification (including piercing and tattooing) that arise within a culture that still amputates the genital flesh of more than half of its boys.

Obviously, some American Saints are consistent in this space, but most are not.

I wonder how well known it is now that circumcision is not better for health. That is why we went for it as the doctor said it wasn’t a major difference, but his attitude conveyed it was the wiser choice. Then there was all that silly angst over what a boy would feel like if he looked any different than his dad. I wish we hadn’t now. 

Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Calm said:

I wonder how well known it is now that circumcision is not better for health.

  Globally, quite well. Only about one-quarter of men are circumcised, and most of those live in Africa and the Middle East.

7 hours ago, Calm said:

I wish we hadn’t now. 

It's crazy. The average adult foreskin is 90 square centimetres (14 square inches), half of it erogenous tissue, and 'accounts for 51% of the total length of the penile shaft skin'. If I were to pierce mine with a needle, certain Saints would freak out about the desecration of my ‘temple’, but if I were to pay someone $2,000 to slice the whole thing off, those same people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

You know what would be great? If the conversation around tattoos and piercings went completely away.  Who cares? Why in the world would either of these things be discussed more than plastic surgery and permanent makeup? We just need to focus on the right things which was the whole point of conference IMO.  

Well said!

First Corinthians 3:16 says: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?"

In my opinion this scripture is not about tattoos or about the Word of Wisdom.  It is about something MUCH more profound, which is distracted from and obscured by interpretations which focus on the physical body.

That little scripture is about WHERE God is, and WHERE we may go to find him.  

If YOU are the temple of God, then you can have a temple-level-communion with God at any time you so choose.  And NOBODY can take that away from you!  Also if the Spirit of God literally dwells within you, well that says something about who or what you are right now, something that gets left out of the Sunday School lessons.  The Spirit of God literally dwelling within you is perfectly consistent with Jesus' teaching that "the kingdom of heaven is within you."  Imo 1st Corinthians 3:16 is an incredibly profound geography lesson, rather than an admonition about tattoos and coffee.  Those matter not the big scheme of things, at least not compared with WHERE God is, and WHERE we may go to encounter him.

Edited by manol
Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Calm said:

What about the graffiti on the Berlin Wall?  Do you reject such expressions of freedom as art?

What about gang graffiti that marks their territory? Some of it takes a lot of skill. I think tattoos and graffiti are crafts, not art.
I don’t appreciate as art graffiti on trains, overpasses, building walls, private fences, etc.  One person’s political cause is another’s call for suppression….on either side. I wonder what impact such things really have. People do what they want to do, though.

I’ve been in Seoul, Korea, now for over a week. No graffiti anywhere, beautiful clean streets and buildings, a great collective pride in the beauty of their city. Haven’t seen any tattoos, either.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Posted
12 hours ago, california boy said:

A good friend of my daughter growing up had a tattoo of the CTR logo on her ankle to remind her to always choose the right.  She did this prior to the whole tattoo shaming thing happened.  That caused a bit of a rock and hard place, when Choosing the Right becomes the wrong thing to do.  Very confusing to her.

People do what they want to do. Rings are cheaper and aren’t permanent or painful to put on. I have a Hold to the Rod decal on my car windshield drivers side.…one can object to tattoos and not be falsely accused of shaming.

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

True confession: I struggle with arguments against the wrongness of body modification (including piercing and tattooing) that arise within a culture that still amputates the genital flesh of more than half of its boys.

Obviously, some American Saints are consistent in this space, but most are not.

There are a number of cultures that engage in forms of body modification. Judaism does it as part of their covenant.

We are entering into a new era of extreme modifications that may have unwanted repercussions down the road.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

  Globally, quite well. Only about one-quarter of men are circumcised, and most of those live in Africa and the Middle East.

It's crazy. The average adult foreskin is 90 square centimetres (14 square inches), half of it erogenous tissue, and 'accounts for 51% of the total length of the penile shaft skin'. If I were to pierce mine with a needle, certain Saints would freak out about the desecration of my ‘temple’, but if I were to pay someone $2,000 to slice the whole thing off, those same people wouldn't bat an eyelid.

When I had my son 30+ years ago our doctor was adamantly against circumcision (she was a DO not an MD so that may have had something to do with it) plus the fact that my son’s dad was from Mexico and was intact ( I think that was the cultural norm) we decided not to have him circumcised. It’s not something we talked about, but I sometimes wonder how he felt being different from most of the other boys he was around (I’m making the assumption that most US boys are circumcised). 

Edited by Peacefully
Posted
5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are a number of cultures that engage in forms of body modification.

Are you attempting to justify the desecration of your sons’ temple that you inflicted upon them? It was okay when you did it?

Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Are you attempting to justify the desecration of your sons’ temple that you inflicted upon them? It was okay when you did it?

Well that would be none of your business. In fact, it is quite offensive. Please don’t refer to my family ever again with disrespect. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well that would be none of your business. In fact, it is quite offensive. Please don’t refer to my family ever again with disrespect. 

But it’s your business to describe others choices as “spraying graffiti on and drilling holes” in their temples? That’s not offensive and is your business? Just trying to figure how this works in your head. 

Edited by SeekingUnderstanding
Posted

I was glad to have had our Isaiah Come Follow Me lessons scheduled around the same time as General Conference because there were several quotes and allusions to Isaiah in many of the General Conference talks.  Maybe not more than normal (Isaiah is referenced quite often), but because Isaiah was fresh in my mind, I was more aware of them.  

Elder Rasband's talk "This Day", sounded a lot like the fulfillment of many passages in Isaiah.   And Elder Bednar's talk "Put on Thy Strength, O Zion", is of course a direct quote and based on Isaiah.  We need more time studying Isaiah.  There's a lot to be gleaned from his messages.  

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...