How Quickly We Conform

[bluebell]

13 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

If President Nelson came out and declared that Members ‘offend’ Jesus and please the devil when they use the term ‘Ice cream’ Mormons would comply and abandon the use of the word Ice cream

Calm addressed this weird accusation very well.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, longview said:

In SLC Utahns were famous for heading over to Snelgroves for ice cream after sacrament meetings.

And they say Utah *deep breath* ‘members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ are not godless heretics.

[MustardSeed]

2 hours ago, longview said:

In SLC Utahns were famous for heading over to Snelgroves for ice cream after sacrament meetings.

Charles Snelgrove, founder and owner, was my great grandfather.  I was essentially raised on the stuff.  I promise it is Sabbath worthy- or was, before it was bought out. 

[Amulek]

On 8/20/2022 at 8:51 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

If President Nelson came out and declared that Members ‘offend’ Jesus and please the devil when they use the term ‘Ice cream’ Mormons would comply and abandon the use of the word Ice cream

So...anybody down for some Bluebell this weekend?

 

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/19/2022 at 9:45 AM, jkwilliams said:

Conformity/obedience is valued in the church. It doesn't mean that people have lost their individuality, but when church leaders say something, members tend to adopt it quickly. 

Obedience is also very important God. 

[MustardSeed]

To be fair, I would agree that there are likely many people at church who when told to jump will ask “how high?” And will jump on demand.  They will also take suggestions and run with them in an effort to be (or to look) spiritually set.  
There are also many who stop and think and reason before implementing trends or suggestions or prophesy. 
 

For those who follow quickly and willingly, it’s crucial that those who lead do so humbly and carefully. I trust that most do. 
IMO. 

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

So...anybody down for some Bluebell this weekend?

 

The idea that the members do whatever the prophet says without thought is laughable when you think back to the reaction by members a few months ago when the prophet asked us to wear masks and get vaccinated.  

Many active members were practically up in arms about it and flatly refused.

[jkwilliams]

18 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The idea that the members do whatever the prophet says without thought is laughable when you think back to the reaction by members a few months ago when the prophet asked us to wear masks and get vaccinated.  

Many active members were practically up in arms about it and flatly refused.

Frankly, I'd never seen anything like it in my life. To me, it was a sure sign that people have gotten their politics mixed up in their religious beliefs to the extent that they would openly defy the president of the church and say he was following the "woke" people.

[bluebell]

1 minute ago, jkwilliams said:

Frankly, I'd never seen anything like it in my life. To me, it was a sure sign that people have gotten their politics mixed up in their religious beliefs to the extent that they would openly defy the president of the church and say he was following the "woke" people.

I know, it was crazy.  

[pogi]

On 8/20/2022 at 7:51 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

If President Nelson came out and declared that Members ‘offend’ Jesus and please the devil when they use the term ‘Ice cream’ Mormons would comply and abandon the use of the word Ice cream

Fair Dinkum, it is sad for me to see you go this route because I generally like your posts. 

I think I was a bit harsh in my original response.  Edited to simply say:

Of course there are blind followers in every culture (religious and non religious) who would do whatever popular leaders/celebrities say.   But it would be just as wrong of me to generalize and ridicule an entire political party or other culture as it is for you to generalize and ridicule us...especially over far-fetched hypotheticals. 

I guarantee that the VAST majority of members would not comply with such an absurd request to ditch the word "ice cream".   The church would receive such backlash and flak for it that I don't think many members could endure.  Missionary efforts would become impossible.    If such a request happened, I think the word "dementia" would be thrown around more than a little.   Even with solid scriptural reasoning, and legitimate branding/missionary efforts to help people think of Christ when they think of our church, and historical efforts to ditch the word "Mormon", our membership is still slow to embrace and adapt to the change.  Ditching the phrase "ice cream" would be an astronomically harder sell without any doctrinal, scriptural, or historical basis for it.  Not only would it never happen in the first place, but it absolutely would not succeed in its efforts if it did. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2022 by pogi

[pogi]

59 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The idea that the members do whatever the prophet says without thought is laughable when you think back to the reaction by members a few months ago when the prophet asked us to wear masks and get vaccinated.  

Many active members were practically up in arms about it and flatly refused.

That is a perfect example! 

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I guarantee that the VAST majority of members would not comply with such an absurd request to ditch the word "ice cream".

I suspect the temple questions would have to change to include the following (trick question): What do you see here?

And just to be 100% clear...under the proposed hypothetical we are still allowed to actually consume the stuff, right?

I mean, so long as I can still have an Oreo Milkshake, Hot Fudge Sunday, Banana Split, Founder's Favorite (Yeah, Cold Stone makes the list here), Gallon of Bluebell, Pint of Ben and Jerry's, etc. I'll probably be okay.

And if my conscience ever starts to really bother me, I suppose I could always just commit to a life of extreme faithfulness and make the switch over to gelato exclusively (which I also love).

 

[Fair Dinkum]

On 8/20/2022 at 11:59 PM, Calm said:

Pres Nelson did not simply come out and declare “Mormon” as offending Jesus and pleasing the devil. Nor did he randomly chose a phrase to target. He gave his reasoning and backed it with scripture. 

If Christ tells us to call his church one name and we ignore him and call it another, I am not sure we offend him, but we can hardly be pleasing him. And it is an insult to ignore Christ’s instruction in this, imo. 

So when the church spent millions of dollars on a world wide advertising campaign declaring "I'm a Mormon" that too offended Jesus?  Or did Jesus only become offended after President Nelson ascended to the office of President?

[JustAnAustralian]

43 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

So when the church spent millions of dollars on a world wide advertising campaign declaring "I'm a Mormon" that too offended Jesus?  Or did Jesus only become offended after President Nelson ascended to the office of President?

It is not the word "Mormon" that was/is bad. It is/was taking Christ's name out of Christ's church that was the problem. President Nelson was pretty clear on that.

Edited August 22, 2022 by JustAnAustralian

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 8/19/2022 at 11:45 PM, jkwilliams said:

When church leaders say something, members tend to adopt it quickly. 

I wish this were more true than it, sadly, is!

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said:

So when the church spent millions of dollars on a world wide advertising campaign declaring "I'm a Mormon" that too offended Jesus?  Or did Jesus only become offended after President Nelson ascended to the office of President?

I ran into.a number of people in Canada and Russia as well as a few in the States that were unaware we were Christians because we had gone along the easier route of adopting the name given to us by others besides Christ generally speaking for way too long (outside of official publications).  Taking the easier route got us recognized faster as existing as a church (the “I’m a Mormon” was brilliant, imo), which was a good thing; it would have been even better if along with that, we were now easily recognizable as a Christian church.  It is very understandable why leaders accepted it before given how Christian groups are usually labeled with something besides “Christ” in their common name (Catholic, Baptist, Methodists, Lutherans, etc).  I wonder if it is now going to be harder to teach and spread a correct idea of the Church or if we will be too easily labeled “cult”, etc because we didn’t emphasis the actual name of the Church and called ourselves “Mormons” for so long.  I’ve known people who didn’t realize Jehovah Witnesses and Pentecostals were Christian, so we are not the only group with this issue. 

I do think “offended” is likely more how Pres Nelson feels about how we are treating Christ by more or less ignoring his instruction for so long by not trying to establish our identity as The Church of Jesus Christ as opposed to how Christ feels about it. We can, after all, insult someone without them feeling insulted.  I don’t think Christ is so sensitive he is wounded by our missteps.  He just needs us to do better at spreading word of the gospel because he has plans for us and the world.

[Amulek]

13 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

So when the church spent millions of dollars on a world wide advertising campaign declaring "I'm a Mormon" that too offended Jesus? 

Did it? Says who?

 

13 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Or did Jesus only become offended after President Nelson ascended to the office of President?

Is this a sincere question or are you just trolling at this point?

 

[Fair Dinkum]

12 hours ago, Amulek said:

Did it? Says who?

 

Is this a sincere question or are you just trolling at this point?

 

I don’t troll but I’m curious what in you opinion differentiates one post as a troll vs another post not?  

[Stormin' Mormon]

2 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I don’t troll but I’m curious what in you opinion differentiates one post as a troll vs another post not?  

I'm not Amulek, so I can't speak for him. But engaging with what was actually said goes a long ways towards differentiating oneself from common internet trolldom.

Quote

Thus, the name of the Church is not negotiable. When the Savior clearly states what the name of His Church should be and even precedes His declaration with, “Thus shall my church be called,” He is serious. And if we allow nicknames to be used or adopt or even sponsor those nicknames ourselves, He is offended.

Read the whole talk. He goes on at great length about the name of the church. 

And as far as I can tell, President Nelson only used the "Jesus is offended" line to refer to the nicking of the name of the church.

I think the church has been consistent in wanting to use its given name, even when it's gone back and forth on whether it's appropriate to refer to the people of the church as Mormons.

So, let's not paint with such a broad brush and instead engage with what was actually said. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Stormin' Mormon

[Amulek]

17 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I don’t troll but I’m curious what in you opinion differentiates one post as a troll vs another post not?  

When somebody goes around posing loaded, insincere questions when I know they know better, that comes across as trolling to me.