A Simple Question on God's One True Church

[DT_]

28 minutes ago, smac97 said:

As you may have guessed, this experience, although not entirely unique (I had spiritual experiences both before it, and have had many since), had a strong impact on me and my thinking about my perspective on the Church.  In a way, this experience functioned to strength the cumulative spiritual witness of the Book of Mormon I worked on in my youth, while in the Army, on my mission, etc.

There is no doubt your personal experiences had a huge impact on your life. We can't rule out the existence of spiritual experiences from God.

28 minutes ago, smac97 said:

 I also regularly re-examine what I believe and why, often by subjecting my beliefs to a sort of "stress test" involving listening to what critics have to say about this or that, and also by grappling with more organic challenges to my faith. 

Good. It's not that hard to defend the Church.

28 minutes ago, smac97 said:

When all is said and done, though, I have thrown my lot in with the Restored Gospel because I have received a spiritual witness that it is what it claims to be.  As with most things, a testimony cannot be a static, immutable thing.  It must be maintained, strengthened and expanded. 

We all have cognitive biases. How do you know your spiritual experiences are not the result of some cognitive bias? Do you scrutinize your own spiritual experiences?  Or do you rigorously analyze your experiences? 

Lastly, please allow me to ask one more thing. What is O'Connor doing wrong?

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by DT_

[CV75]

5 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

I Propose an Experiment:

Abstract:

Find the Real True Church, if one really exists, on the earth.

Method:  Take a Random Representative Sample of the Earths Population and Ask each of them to Find God's One True Church.  Based on the current world population of 7.97 billion, we would need a responding sample size of 2,401 random individuals willing to participate in searching for God's One True Church.  This would give us a margin of error of + or - 2% with a 95% confidence in the results.

So here is my question:  Assuming this experiment was executed, how many of these random respondents would conclude that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was God's one true Church?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say less than .00001% would conclude that the LDS Church is God's one true church and based on our sample size that = 0

So two more questions:

If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS God's one true church on the face of the earth...why is it so freaking difficult to discover and once discovered why is it so freaking difficult to believe in once found?  Surely the God of the universe could have found a more productive way to share His Truths with his beloved children.  Heck I can come up with a better distribution process and I'm definitely no God.

Life is hard. it's no easier for God.

[MrShorty]

It is an interesting question. My answers tend to lead into much hated universalist paths. However the details work out, it seems that salvation and exaltation do not depend on people actually finding and joining the one true church. I believe that God knows how to get people back to Him through a wide variety of life experiences. Somedays, I might even go so far as to say that our claims to being the one true church is not a very meaningful claim.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

What do you mean by this and also the division between these and “ true believers”? I don’t believe in how many Saints define “one true church”, but I am a devout believer in the one true and living Church with which the Lord was and hopefully still is well pleased, speaking collectively.

Sloppy phone language. You have to get from members of record (upper estimate) to members that “would conclude that the LDS Church is God's one true church”. Since I’m looking for a rough lower bound, I assumed inactive members would not agree (though this is a simplification). I also assumed that some fraction of attending members might be more universalist and might also not agree with the simplified statement. I labeled them”nuanced but that does not capture the diversity of the category.
 

My only purpose was to estimate a range not necessarily nail down how individual members might describe themselves. 
 

Sorry for the imprecise language. 

[Rain]

I think basing this on membership numbers doesn't really tell you what you want to know.

If one were truly going to do you would need to give them access and info to all religions and their teachings.

Based on how many Christians I have heard say there is no one and only true denomination I think that a lot of people who are truly seeking for the true church would say these any christian church works would need to be put aside.  The 2 ideas of finding the true church and there isn't a true church just doesn't go together.  So that would leave very few Christian churches.

From the little I know about Buddism I think (definitely don't know) that would be the case as well.  

Atheists could go one of 2 ways.  Either they wouldn't be willing to look or if they really are open to look may be willing to have better thoughts of our church because they were humble enough to look.  

So little by little the number of people willing or churches gets whittled down. Which may mean the numbers are much higher than any of us expect. 

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think any of us could accurately estimate it.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It feels like Fair Dinkum's post is being maligned unfairly. Sure, the math may not quite add up BUT I wonder what would happen if we removed children from that equation. I don't know that under 18's would be counted in a survey like this.

But the point of the post seems like it could have a point. There are an awful lot of people throughout the history of the world who never heard the gospel (while living) so the question about the efficiency of the mode of communication seems fair to me. Not to say there may not be reasons for it, but just from a communications perspective one may have to wonder about the efficacy of the communication model.

I think believers need to wrestle with the fact that so few people (as a percentage) find the church. That deserves a thoughtful discussion. 
 

The survey though just seems so awkward on so many levels. One surveys don’t establish truth. Two surveys are only so so about indicating how people feel about certain questions.  Obtaining a random sample is impossible. Peoples answers depend heavily upon question wording etc. But three and finally, why conduct the survey at all!? At the end of the day we know that only a very tiny fraction believe the churches truth claims. 
 

Add to that the math errors in the OP and it was just too much for this critic!

[manol]

7 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS God's one true church on the face of the earth...why is it so freaking difficult to discover and once discovered why is it so freaking difficult to believe in once found?  Surely the God of the universe could have found a more productive way to share His Truths with his beloved children.   Heck I can come up with a better distribution process and I'm definitely no God.

I agree with your observation! 

I'm going to propose a couple of possible explanations (there of course others, such as the arguably quasi-universalist inclusiveness offered by baptism for the dead):

1.  God's top priority is not which church people belong to.  Quoting Bluebell:

6 hours ago, bluebell said:

If all that God cared about was that people knew which church He wanted them to join, He could just visit each person and tell them. 

2.  The "kingdom of heaven" is not limited to a particular religion, but rather is made up of a particular a type of person that we are all called to be, and that call is not limited to coming through only one religion.  Quoting Jesus Christ:

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind."

Quoting Mister Shorty, emphasis mine:

2 hours ago, MrShorty said:

It is an interesting question. My answers tend to lead into much hated universalist paths. However the details work out, it seems that salvation and exaltation do not depend on people actually finding and joining the one true church. I believe that God knows how to get people back to Him through a wide variety of life experiences. Somedays, I might even go so far as to say that our claims to being the one true church is not a very meaningful claim.

And quoting @mfbukowski, imo expounding on the idea bolded in the @MrShorty quote above:

On 6/14/2022 at 4:21 PM, mfbukowski said:

God is the perfect supreme Chessplayer...

Ever played chess with a person of infinite intelligence?  Trust me, HIS plan will not be OUR plan.   He doesn't even need a plan.  

And one more arguably relevant quote, this time from "A Course in Miracles", emphasis mine:

"A teacher of God is anyone who chooses to be one.  His qualifications consist solely in this; somehow, somewhere he has made a deliberate choice in which he did not see his interests as apart from someone else’s.  Once he has done that, his road is established and his direction is sure.  A light has entered the darkness.  It may be a single light, but that is enough.  He has entered an agreement with God even if he does not yet believe in Him.  He has become a bringer of salvation.  He has become a teacher of God.

"They come from all over the world.  They come from all religions and from no religion.  They are the ones who have answered.  The Call is universal.  It goes on all the time everywhere.  It calls for teachers to speak for It and redeem the world.  Many hear It, but few will answer.  Yet it is all a matter of time.  Everyone will answer in the end, but the end can be a long, long way off."

Note that the above definition includes atheists. 

 

Edited August 13, 2022 by manol

[Fair Dinkum]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

How would you propose to empirically establish this proposition?  

How do you arrive at "a 95% confidence in the results?"

What methodology would these "random individuals" use "in searching for God's One True Church?"

Is that methodology empirically testable/verifiable?

Ascertaining "God's One True Church" is, for you, a popularity contest?

You presuppose that which has yet to be demonstrated (the "freaking difficult to discover" part).

That said, living in our ever-increasingly-interconnected world means that we are exposed to a cacophony of voices and influences.  The "still small voice" can be drowned out if you let it.

I don't think being a Latter-day Saint is particularly difficult.  It's more a matter of faith, of individual commitment, self-determination, choice, etc.

I returned from my mission to Taiwan in April 1995 (I had spent 18 months before that on active duty training in the Army, so I was gone nearly four years altogether).  A few days after I arrived home, I traveled to Ivins (close to St. George) with my parents and grandmother to attend the dedication of a private liberal arts high school (Tuacahn, which has since apparently become a charter school).  The Mormon Tabernacle Choir had been invited to perform at the dedication, and President Hinckley had been invited to give the dedicatory prayer.  My dad was in the Choir at the time, so we traveled down with him.  

The dedication ceremony took place on April 8, a Saturday, in the school's outdoor amphitheater.  It was a pretty sight, but it was also quite cold and windy.  I sat in the audience seats with my mother and grandmother and chatted with them for about 45 minutes prior to the beginning of the program.  During this time the amphitheater filled up with people (it seats about 2000).  The Choir was already on the stage, and they were looking miserable.  They were all covered in blankets because of the cold, and the wind was blowing the ladies' hair and the men's comb-overs all over the place.

Then, a few minutes before the scheduled start time of the program, everyone in the audience began standing up.  As there had been no announcement asking us to stand, I surmised that President Hinckley had arrived and that the audience was standing as an expression of respect.  I took the cue and stood up along with everyone else and started looking for President Hinckley.  Sure enough, he had entered the stage area from the left side and was walking across the dais to the seating area.  He stopped in front of the Choir and said something to them that made them laugh (my Dad later told me that he had said something like this (keep in mind they were looking messy and were covered in blankets): "Wow, brothers and sisters, you look like one great big unmade bed!").  He then proceeded to the seating area and sat down, and a few minutes later the program started.

I don't remember much of the program, but I do remember the experience I had in that moment while President Hinckley was crossing the stage.  At that moment I received a clear, discernible impression - from what must have been the Spirit - that I was in the presence of a prophet.  Of *the* prophet.  Although this was one of those "still small voice" experiences you hear about, I was surprised at how emphatic and clear it was.  There I was one moment, with my hands and ears growing numb from the cold (keep in mind I had just finished spending two years in tropical Taiwan - so I was not yet acclimated to the cold), making small talk with my mother and grandmother, and the next moment I was standing and being enveloped in a strong feeling, an impression of marked clarity.

As you may have guessed, this experience, although not entirely unique (I had spiritual experiences both before it, and have had many since), had a strong impact on me and my thinking about my perspective on the Church.  In a way, this experience functioned to strength the cumulative spiritual witness of the Book of Mormon I worked on in my youth, while in the Army, on my mission, etc.  It altered my presuppositions, which became very useful in the ensuing years, as pretty much ever since I have been studying the Restored Gospel, mostly in the "you gotta walk the walk, not just talk the talk" way of things, but also via the "best books" kind of way referenced in the Doctrine & Covenants.  I also regularly re-examine what I believe and why, often by subjecting my beliefs to a sort of "stress test" involving listening to what critics have to say about this or that, and also by grappling with more organic challenges to my faith. 

When all is said and done, though, I have thrown my lot in with the Restored Gospel because I have received a spiritual witness that it is what it claims to be.  As with most things, a testimony cannot be a static, immutable thing.  It must be maintained, strengthened and expanded.  

That's an endlessly regressive bit of second-guessing.  

Agency, missionary work, temple work, etc. all go a long way in helping me repose faith in the notion that God knows what He is doing.

Thanks,

-Smac

Thanks for sharing your story of President Hinkley. Would one of our survey group say someone unfamiliar with President Hinkley experienced the same spirit confirmation had they been there?  Could any of our imagined test group have felt the spirit or do you think it is only available to those raised in the church?

Honestly. I don’t believe any of our randomly select test group would find Mormonism as the one true church. But What do I know. I could be wrong. 

[Fair Dinkum]

3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:Sure the LDS Church could remove a lot of doctrines and practices to push the convert rates up like rejecting the word of wisdom but is that really how the true church operates?

 

 

Ahhh…sometimes that’s exactly how the church operates 

[Fair Dinkum]

2 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I think believers need to wrestle with the fact that so few people (as a percentage) find the church. That deserves a thoughtful discussion. 
 

The survey though just seems so awkward on so many levels. One surveys don’t establish truth. Two surveys are only so so about indicating how people feel about certain questions.  Obtaining a random sample is impossible. Peoples answers depend heavily upon question wording etc. But three and finally, why conduct the survey at all!? At the end of the day we know that only a very tiny fraction believe the churches truth claims. 
 

Add to that the math errors in the OP and it was just too much for this critic!

Again you miss my point. Fair enough. No worries mate

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Maybe not, but I'd be surprised.

I think most members who think and talk about God's perfect plan would suggest that God's Pattern (speaking through prophets) is the ideal.

I agree.  And I'd agree with them.  It's the assumption that "ideal" equals efficient that I'm wondering about.  

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, manol said:

I agree with your observation! 

I'm going to propose a couple of possible explanations (there of course others, such as the arguably quasi-universalist inclusiveness offered by baptism for the dead):

1.  God's top priority is not which church people belong to.  Quoting Bluebell:

2.  The "kingdom of heaven" is not limited to a particular religion, but rather is made up of a particular a type of person that we are all called to be, and that call is not limited to coming through only one religion.  Quoting Jesus Christ:

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind."

Quoting Mister Shorty, emphasis mine:

And quoting @mfbukowski, imo expounding on the idea bolded in the @MrShorty quote above:

And one more arguably relevant quote, this time from "A Course in Miracles", emphasis mine:

"A teacher of God is anyone who chooses to be one.  His qualifications consist solely in this; somehow, somewhere he has made a deliberate choice in which he did not see his interests as apart from someone else’s.  Once he has done that, his road is established and his direction is sure.  A light has entered the darkness.  It may be a single light, but that is enough.  He has entered an agreement with God even if he does not yet believe in Him.  He has become a bringer of salvation.  He has become a teacher of God.

"They come from all over the world.  They come from all religions and from no religion.  They are the ones who have answered.  The Call is universal.  It goes on all the time everywhere.  It calls for teachers to speak for It and redeem the world.  Many hear It, but few will answer.  Yet it is all a matter of time.  Everyone will answer in the end, but the end can be a long, long way off."

Note that the above definition includes atheists. 

 

Agree fully. Working on a paper on secular theology, which is COMPATIBLE with our beliefs. Google it, there's a lot of stuff out there

Doctrine no, but if you speak of paradigms, we are very close 

We all create our own worlds thru religion and personal revelation and what is "true" for one may not be "true" for another, according to our own personal experience.

We are materialists.

We worship The Ideal Human.

We are therefore humanists and seek the best mankind can become

God organized existing matter, as we might build a house

Truth is "what works" for its purpose, and is "sweet"- Alma 32

God is perceived as one of us, yet perfect. He is embodied and Our Father

And on it goes.

But gotta get back to work

Edited August 13, 2022 by mfbukowski

[CV75]

13 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

I think believers need to wrestle with the fact that so few people (as a percentage) find the church. That deserves a thoughtful discussion. 
 

The survey though just seems so awkward on so many levels. One surveys don’t establish truth. Two surveys are only so so about indicating how people feel about certain questions.  Obtaining a random sample is impossible. Peoples answers depend heavily upon question wording etc. But three and finally, why conduct the survey at all!? At the end of the day we know that only a very tiny fraction believe the churches truth claims. 
 

Add to that the math errors in the OP and it was just too much for this critic!

A believer might take several scriptural principles: (in no particular order; they all work together): the "Many are called..." ; "they know not where to find it" (which in context of D&C 123 includes the ineffectiveness of those who have found it to show where to find it); the whore and small dominions (1 Nephi 14); the parables of the sower, laborers, and others; the imagery of leaven; the full plan of salvation as it relates to Acts 17:26-28 and John 9:1-3. I think everyone will eventually find it and have an opportunity to join it.

[pogi]

17 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

This seems like a overly simplified answer. Most people wouldn't do this not because they are anti-Mormon, but because they're just not interested. How much time have you spent intensively studying with great faith, humility, and sincerity other religions to see if they are true?

You are exactly right.  One doesn’t have to be an anti-Mormon for this to be a futile experiment.  I think that is the point though.    It is estimated that there are around 10,000 distinct religions in the world, with each potentially having thousands of denominations.  Christianity, for example, has around 45,000 denominations world-wide.  

Some of those religions don't believe in personal revelation and require an objective study of their religious texts compared against historical evidence, etc.  Each will likely have a different philosophy of what "truth" even is.  Others, like ours, requires sacrifice and spiritual experimentation and “good earth” (parable of the sower).   

It is an absurdity to suggest that these people would or could exert the effort necessary to investigate every religion sufficiently in their lifetime, or that each individual is even spiritually capable in their current state for the seed “word of God” to grown in their hearts.  It is all spelled out in the parable of the sower.  So this is all based on a false premise.

Perhaps that tells us something about God's plan - he doesn't expect all people to find his church in mortality.  His plan has more of an eternal scope than that (hence temple work).   In fact, he already told us that there will be "few" who enter through the gate of baptism.   So all this proves is that @Fair Dinkum doesn't understand God's plan.  That’s about all we can deduce from this.

Edited August 13, 2022 by pogi

[pogi]

17 hours ago, manol said:

I agree with your observation! 

I'm going to propose a couple of possible explanations (there of course others, such as the arguably quasi-universalist inclusiveness offered by baptism for the dead):

1.  God's top priority is not which church people belong to.  Quoting Bluebell:

2.  The "kingdom of heaven" is not limited to a particular religion, but rather is made up of a particular a type of person that we are all called to be, and that call is not limited to coming through only one religion.  Quoting Jesus Christ:

"The kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind."

Quoting Mister Shorty, emphasis mine:

And quoting @mfbukowski, imo expounding on the idea bolded in the @MrShorty quote above:

And one more arguably relevant quote, this time from "A Course in Miracles", emphasis mine:

"A teacher of God is anyone who chooses to be one.  His qualifications consist solely in this; somehow, somewhere he has made a deliberate choice in which he did not see his interests as apart from someone else’s.  Once he has done that, his road is established and his direction is sure.  A light has entered the darkness.  It may be a single light, but that is enough.  He has entered an agreement with God even if he does not yet believe in Him.  He has become a bringer of salvation.  He has become a teacher of God.

"They come from all over the world.  They come from all religions and from no religion.  They are the ones who have answered.  The Call is universal.  It goes on all the time everywhere.  It calls for teachers to speak for It and redeem the world.  Many hear It, but few will answer.  Yet it is all a matter of time.  Everyone will answer in the end, but the end can be a long, long way off."

Note that the above definition includes atheists. 

In other words, one needs to consider the Church of the Firstborn and the eternal plan of salvation.   Most religions probably have more nuance such as this that render the hypothetical study meaningless.  The fact that most people don't, or wouldn't, choose the one true church, I think is a given for probably all religions who even believe in a one true church.  

 

[Stargazer]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:50 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

Heck I can come up with a better distribution process and I'm definitely no God.

I doubt you'll have an opportunity to actualize your distribution process, to be honest.

[Stargazer]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:50 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

I Propose an Experiment:

Abstract:

Find the Real True Church, if one really exists, on the earth.

Method:  Take a Random Representative Sample of the Earths Population and Ask each of them to Find God's One True Church.  Based on the current world population of 7.97 billion, we would need a responding sample size of 2,401 random individuals willing to participate in searching for God's One True Church.  This would give us a margin of error of + or - 2% with a 95% confidence in the results.

So here is my question:  Assuming this experiment was executed, how many of these random respondents would conclude that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, was God's one true Church?

I'm going to go out on a limb and say less than .00001% would conclude that the LDS Church is God's one true church and based on our sample size that = 0

So two more questions:

If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS God's one true church on the face of the earth...why is it so freaking difficult to discover and once discovered why is it so freaking difficult to believe in once found?  Surely the God of the universe could have found a more productive way to share His Truths with his beloved children.  Heck I can come up with a better distribution process and I'm definitely no God.

Your proposed method wouldn't work under any circumstances. And not because there isn't a Real True Church (RTC), either.

It has always been freaking difficult to discover the RTC. There were substantial periods of time, thousands of years long, when the RTC wasn't even available, and thousands of years when it was partially available, but still nearly undiscoverable.

The number of people who have even lived upon the earth at the same time the RTC was extant, is almost inexpressibly tiny. Statistically, virtually nobody has lived upon the earth when there was a likely chance that they could even hear of the RTC. In these latter days the statistics have improved substantially, but only because of improvements in global communications and transportation.

God not being a respecter of persons, however, one's having not lived when the RTC was even discoverable cannot be an obstacle to eventual salvation and exaltation. But having been exposed to it when one should have recognized it, but did not, that might be such an obstacle.

The bulk of humanity will, at the end, be judged according to what laws of God they knew about and obeyed, and how they reacted when they were first exposed to the Gospel when it is finally presented to them, be it either in mortality or in the Spirit World. For the vast majority this will be in the Spirit World.

Yes, I know that sounds sloppy, but Father sent us here to see what we would do outside his presence, and for that to be a fair test, we had to be as ignorant as possible. If the RTC was always there, there would have been too much evidential proof. In short, we have to go stumbling in the dark under horrible conditions in order for God to be able to test us under real conditions. And that's why those who are born into the RTC stand to be judged the most harshly, if we screw up, because we will have screwed up under the greatest light available.

[Stargazer]

17 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Thanks for sharing your story of President Hinkley. Would one of our survey group say someone unfamiliar with President Hinkley experienced the same spirit confirmation had they been there?  Could any of our imagined test group have felt the spirit or do you think it is only available to those raised in the church?

I've not had any such experience in connection with President Hinckley, nor any other president of the church, but I have had a fair number of other experiences that make me highly confident in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints being the Real True Church.

17 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Honestly. I don’t believe any of our randomly select test group would find Mormonism as the one true church. But What do I know. I could be wrong. 

You might be surprised, but I believe you may be right about this.

But whether any of them were to find Mormonism as the one true church, or not, isn't the point. The point is only the answer to this question: Is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints the Real True Church? They say that 50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong, but what they say is immaterial. What matters is only the truth.

[Stargazer]

20 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

First, God's true church is decide by God.  Not by a vote or popularity of the people. 

To be fair, he wasn't proposing a popularity contest, but a method of how to discover that true church.

[Stargazer]

On 8/12/2022 at 5:50 PM, Fair Dinkum said:

If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints IS God's one true church on the face of the earth...why is it so freaking difficult to discover and once discovered why is it so freaking difficult to believe in once found?

The reason why I'm answering your query so much is because it is such a lovely question to have been asked!!

When Nephi was having that conversation with the angel in the 11th chapter of 1st Nephi, the following was said:

And [the angel] said unto me: "Knowest thou the condescension of God?" And I said unto him: "I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things."

That is where I stand, as well. God loves us, and we will have the opportunity to hear about and choose to accept the truth (or not), when it is our time. 

I'm hesitant to tell the story of how I found the Church. But it was fairly remarkable, at least to me. In short, God reached out and shoved me at it. And grateful I am because of it.

But it is certain that most people go throughout their entire lives without ever running into the Church. Why me, and not that other guy? Don't know. But I trust that God has His reasons, and they are good ones.

[Fair Dinkum]

So what I’m getting in feed back is that most here agree with my premise. That if these 2,000 some odd randomly selected truth seekers endeavored to find the one true church, most if not all would not find the lds church as that  church. 
 

Interesting isn’t it that sincere truth seekers would not find Mormonism as the one truth church on earth. 

[mfbukowski]

On 8/12/2022 at 3:06 PM, DT_ said:

How do you know your spiritual experiences are not the result of some cognitive bias? 

Silly question

How do you know your cognitive biases are not the result of cognitive bias?

Infinite regress

Biases all the way down.😳🤣🤪

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

So what I’m getting in feed back is that most here agree with my premise. That if these 2,000 some odd randomly selected truth seekers endeavored to find the one true church, most if not all would not find the lds church as that  church. 
 

Interesting isn’t it that sincere truth seekers would not find Mormonism as the one truth church on earth. 

But that is because the exercise restricts the scope of opportunity for finding the one true Church (e.g., the respondents' lifetime and applied effort up to the point in time of the survey; mortal respondents only). So, a more correct conclusion replaces "would not" with "had not yet", and acknowledge that sincere truth seekers past, present and future will eventually find the Church of the Firstborn, and in retrospect will attest that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was key in making that discovery, given that it came about in the dispensation of the fullness of times to fulfill that precise aim for the living, the dead and the yet-to-be-born. The individual good faith held by "sincere truth seekers" is a matter of degree just like anything else, so results will vary.

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

So what I’m getting in feed back is that most here agree with my premise. That if these 2,000 some odd randomly selected truth seekers endeavored to find the one true church, most if not all would not find the lds church as that  church. 
 

Interesting isn’t it that sincere truth seekers would not find Mormonism as the one truth church on earth. 

Yep

GOD is great at removing the wheat from the chaf.

We need more Process Philosophers

[pogi]

8 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Interesting isn’t it that sincere truth seekers would not find Mormonism as the one truth church on earth. 

Speak directly.  What are you getting at?

I don’t find it unusual or unexpected at all - for many of the reasons expressed.