Would Mary Have Been Justified If She Aborted Jesus?

[teddyaware]

For all of the “women’s empowerment,” pro-choice participants on this board: do you believe that Mary, given all the extreme difficulties she knew she would have to wade through, would have been justified (I.e. not committed a sin) if she had made the choice to abort Jesus? 

[Duncan]

11 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

For all of the “women’s empowerment,” pro-choice participants on this board: do you believe that Mary, given all the extreme difficulties she knew she would have to wade through, would have been justified (I.e. not committed a sin) if she had made the choice to abort Jesus? 

Without Jesus there would be no such thing as being justified. Did you get hit in the head with fireworks or something?

 How upset are you be that women can vote, get credit cards, get a job, drive etc. On a scale of 1-10 how upset are you?

Edited July 4, 2022 by Duncan

[Fether]

35 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

For all of the “women’s empowerment,” pro-choice participants on this board: do you believe that Mary, given all the extreme difficulties she knew she would have to wade through, would have been justified (I.e. not committed a sin) if she had made the choice to abort Jesus? 

No. 

an extra marital pregnancy in of itself is no justification for abortion. 

[CA Steve]

Would Hitler's mom have been justified in aborting him?

 

 

[Zosimus]

54 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

For all of the “women’s empowerment,” pro-choice participants on this board: do you believe that Mary, given all the extreme difficulties she knew she would have to wade through, would have been justified (I.e. not committed a sin) if she had made the choice to abort Jesus? 

instead three decades later the State imposed the death penalty on Jesus, at the insistence of an irate mob of religious extremists. does that say anything about the death penalty? or religious extremism? not really, nor does your hypothetical say much about abortion

[Rain]

I don't think it is possible to compare Mary with many, if not all women.  First, an angel came down and talked to her about it and she had a choice of whether to do it.  She knew she would be carrying the Son of God and probably figured that meant it wouldn't have birth defects that would affect that.  She didn't become pregnant through a traumatic, violent experience from someone who should have been her protector. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Rain

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

For all of the “women’s empowerment,” pro-choice participants on this board: do you believe that Mary, given all the extreme difficulties she knew she would have to wade through, would have been justified (I.e. not committed a sin) if she had made the choice to abort Jesus? 

Maybe as much trouble as Joseph would have been in for breaking off the engagement for the same reason?

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don't think it is possible to compare Mary with many, if not all women.  First and angel came down and talked to her about it and she had a choice of whether to do it.  She knew she would be carrying the Son of God and probably figured that meant it wouldn't have birth defects that would affect that.  She didn't become pregnant through a traumatic, violent experience from someone who should have been her protector. 

This. Mary accepted the calling.

[JLHPROF]

Or Eve aborted her children?  End of the race.

Sarah?  End of the blessings of Abraham.

Probably others.

[JLHPROF]

33 minutes ago, Rain said:

She didn't become pregnant through a traumatic, violent experience from someone who should have been her protector. 

Interesting point. While not violent or traumatic it wasn't a typical conception with her husband.

She was spirited away and impregnated.  How much say did she have?  Was she consulted before being abducted?

 

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Or Eve aborted her children?  End of the race.

Sarah?  End of the blessings of Abraham.

Probably others.

Who is advocating for aborting every child?

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

She was spirited away and impregnated.  How much say did she have?  Was she consulted before being abducted?

Yes, she was.  Read Luke 1:26-38

[Hamba Tuhan]

Of course, mate, because as we all know, living according to one's individual desires -- being 'true' to oneself -- is the highest possible good.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Hamba Tuhan

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don't think it is possible to compare Mary with many, if not all women.  First and angel came down and talked to her about it and she had a choice of whether to do it.  She knew she would be carrying the Son of God and probably figured that meant it wouldn't have birth defects that would affect that.  She didn't become pregnant through a traumatic, violent experience from someone who should have been her protector. 

Not pro choice, but….

She had an angel informing her God was a part of her support system. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Calm

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Who is advocating for aborting every child?

I thought the advocacy was for the woman's right to abort every pregnancy.  Not to abort all pregnancies of course.  But that right would have extended to Eve, Sarah, and Mary correct?

[JLHPROF]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes, she was.  Read Luke 1:26-38

You're always very reasonable Calm.  🙂

[Rain]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I thought the advocacy was for the woman's right to abort every pregnancy.  Not to abort all pregnancies of course.  But that right would have extended to Eve, Sarah, and Mary correct?

The advocacy varies quite a bit.  There are many who advocate for a woman's right to abort only for some pregnancies.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Rain

[Rain]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yes, she was.  Read Luke 1:26-38

Exactly

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Would Hitler's mom have been justified in aborting him?

 

 

Buzz, 10 yard penalty for Godwin infraction. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, rodheadlee said:

Buzz, 10 yard penalty for Godwin infraction. 

I don’t know, referring to another extreme, God, seems to merit a penalty if a Godwin’s is called for.  Godwin infraction voids a God infraction perhaps?

[strappinglad]

This thread is crass !🤢

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I thought the advocacy was for the woman's right to abort every pregnancy.  Not to abort all pregnancies of course.  But that right would have extended to Eve, Sarah, and Mary correct?

Yes, but you are conflating legal rights with moral rights and it is getting very silly.

i am pro-choice because I believe the mother is better situated to make the decision than the government. I want the women to almost always turn down that right by inculcating in society in general a deep respect and love for life. It does not mean I have to morally agree with every woman that decides to get an abortion. It does mean it is not my job to forcibly stop her.

[rongo]

4 hours ago, CA Steve said:

Would Hitler's mom have been justified in aborting him?

No.

a) no mother knows in advance that her child will turn out evil.

b) even Hitler, Pol Pot, etc. deserve to have a chance to use their agency, and not be preemptively aborted.

c) most people asking this question reject the reality and possibility of prophecy. On what grounds could a mother be justified in preemptively aborting because she thinks/knows he will turn out bad. That's worse than doing it because of Down's Syndrome or Spina bifida. And most people would say she was evil, deluded,and crazy.

 

[The Nehor]

And if the best argument against legalized abortion is that Eve, Sarah, and Mary might have used does it not become blatant that this is misogyny? If three of the most righteous women that ever lived made the wrong decision it could have upended the whole plan. Better we put in place someone that can force them to make the right decision just in case. Really? That is the argument for denying women choice?

It is also worth noting that there were known methods of abortion in the days of Mary at least (and probably Sarah). They weren’t particularly safe but they were around. They didn’t use them.

[rongo]

All of this discussion about abortion over the last few weeks has led me to think introspectively about the argument that has been made that abortion may be "better" and more merciful, happy, etc. for a baby than adoption, life with challenges, or an outright horrible life. I really think even a life of slavery, adversity, etc. would be preferable to preemptive abortion, and I believe that the child's spirit would forcefully agree. Even unspeakably bad lives have potential and bright spots, and I don't believe that we (even the mothers) have the right to interfere with the fountain of life and deny these children "my turn on earth." I know that some speculate that aborted babies will get other chances, but this is speculative (we don't know that this is true, and the forcefulness with which abortion has been condemned tends to indicate the opposite, doesn't it?), and I think this interfering with the plan, the fountain of life, and the agency (as in, full deprivation of the opportunity to experience life and exercise agency) is why abortion has been and still is condemned by the Church (reasonable and rare exceptions noted in policy).