The uniqueness of the LDS Church

[InCognitus]

On 8/10/2022 at 10:21 AM, theplains said:

When I look at these sources, Jesus became a God in the premortal existence and was
appointed to the Godhead. From these sources, Jesus is not God from everlasting to
everlasting.

I know I already responded to your post, but I wanted to provide one other biblical example that demonstrates that the phrase "from everlasting" (mē\‘ôlām) does not mean unchanging from an infinite time in the past.  Just look at Proverbs 8:22–25, where "wisdom" is personified and is said to have been "brought forth" and "set up from everlasting", from the beginning:

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

This same language could be used for Jesus, as having been "set up" and appointed as God "from everlasting, from the beginning".

And I already pointed out earlier that the Bible makes it clear that God made Jesus "both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).  Look up the meaning of the Greek word translated as "made" in that verse.

[theplains]

On 8/11/2022 at 2:38 PM, InCognitus said:

I know I already responded to your post, but I wanted to provide one other biblical example that demonstrates that the phrase "from everlasting" (mē\‘ôlām) does not mean unchanging from an infinite time in the past.  Just look at Proverbs 8:22–25, where "wisdom" is personified and is said to have been "brought forth" and "set up from everlasting", from the beginning:

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.
23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.
 24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.
 25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

This same language could be used for Jesus, as having been "set up" and appointed as God "from everlasting, from the beginning".

And I already pointed out earlier that the Bible makes it clear that God made Jesus "both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).  Look up the meaning of the Greek word translated as "made" in that verse.

This is a teaching from an older Ensign magazine.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1975/12/how-to-receive-spiritual-gifts?lang=eng

"God the Father is the ultimate repository of all intelligence, "or, in other words, light 
and truth" (D&C 93:36); Jesus Christ, the Firstborn, who became a god in the premortal 
existence, the Father's steward over his creations, is the one source of light for us as 
individuals; and the Holy Ghost is the "gatekeeper," as it were, the dispenser of light 
to us according to worthiness and ability to receive it" (Ensign, December 1975, "How to 
Receive Spiritual Gifts").

In LDS theology, isn't the God who has always been God the ultimate repository of all
intelligence?

Edited August 22, 2022 by theplains

[ksfisher]

17 minutes ago, theplains said:

This is a teaching from an older Ensign magazine.

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/1975/12/how-to-receive-spiritual-gifts?lang=eng

"God the Father is the ultimate repository of all intelligence, "or, in other words, light 
and truth" (D&C 93:36); Jesus Christ, the Firstborn, who became a god in the premortal 
existence, the Father's steward over his creations, is the one source of light for us as 
individuals; and the Holy Ghost is the "gatekeeper," as it were, the dispenser of light 
to us according to worthiness and ability to receive it" (Ensign, December 1975, "How to 
Receive Spiritual Gifts").

In LDS theology, isn't the God who has always been God the ultimate repository of all
intelligence?

 

"God the Father is the ultimate repository of all intelligence, "

This seems to be your answer.  I don't see a conflict with what InCognitus shared.

Edited August 22, 2022 by ksfisher

[Tacenda]

I hope this is okay to put the youtube in this thread. My former LDS neighbor posted this on FB and I'm wondering how folks feel about this guy and what he's saying about the second coming and correlates what Pres Nelson has told us or in his thinking his hinting it to us. I think this guy sounds like a ? theorist. But IMO, it's climate change. And could be our demise unless it's a world war and nuclear attacks. It's been quite the last few years, but I wonder if we need to remain hopeful that there are many, many more years on the earth staying intact.

 

Edited August 25, 2022 by Tacenda

[theplains]

On 8/22/2022 at 4:43 PM, ksfisher said:

"God the Father is the ultimate repository of all intelligence, "

This seems to be your answer.  I don't see a conflict with what InCognitus shared.

In LDS theology, is God the Father (of our Earth) less intelligent than his father or grandfather or do all
three (for example) share the same ultimate repository of all intelligence?

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

In LDS theology, is God the Father (of our Earth) less intelligent than his father or grandfather or do all
three (for example) share the same ultimate repository of all intelligence?

Just as the Father and the Son are one co-equal and interdependent God, the Son possessing in eternal fulness all of the divine powers and attributes of perfection possessed by Father, so too all who become one with God — just as the Father and the Son are one — will possess in eternal fulness all of the same divine powers and attributes possessed by the Father,  thus becoming the sons of God and joint heirs with Christ in the possession of all things.

21 That they all may be one; as thou art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be MADE PERFECT in one… (John 17)

 

[teddyaware]

On 8/25/2022 at 12:16 AM, Tacenda said:

I hope this is okay to put the youtube in this thread. My former LDS neighbor posted this on FB and I'm wondering how folks feel about this guy and what he's saying about the second coming and correlates what Pres Nelson has told us or in his thinking his hinting it to us. I think this guy sounds like a ? theorist. But IMO, it's climate change. And could be our demise unless it's a world war and nuclear attacks. It's been quite the last few years, but I wonder if we need to remain hopeful that there are many, many more years on the earth staying intact.

 

I’m betting there will be many who will be mocked as overwrought, superstitions theorists the day before the Second Coming.

[InCognitus]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

In LDS theology, is God the Father (of our Earth) less intelligent than his father or grandfather or do all
three (for example) share the same ultimate repository of all intelligence?

I think you already know the answer to this question from scripture:

Abraham 3:19:  "And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all."   

[CV75]

8 hours ago, theplains said:

In LDS theology, is God the Father (of our Earth) less intelligent than his father or grandfather or do all
three (for example) share the same ultimate repository of all intelligence?

There are many, many, many kinds of intelligence, so those who are united as one power (there are as many, many, many kinds of power with the many, many, many kinds of intelligence) are more intelligent than those who are not. See John 17 as a springboard to that idea.

[Saint Bonaventure]

Wrong thread. 

 

Edited September 10, 2022 by Saint Bonaventure

[Scott Lloyd]

On 12/28/2021 at 9:06 PM, The Nehor said:

If you are going to use that “word” it needs a trigger warning.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 9:17 PM, sunstoned said:

Where is Scott when you need him🙂

Now you’ve done it! 
 

I would have missed that if you guys hadn’t spotlighted it. 
 

Yes,  (or no?) irregardless is not a proper word. Regardless expresses the meaning just fine without having the illegitimate ir- prefix tacked onto the front of it. 
 

I believe what happens is  that speakers and writers in their confusion conflate the two synonymous expressions regardless and irrespective of, resulting in the linguistic abomination “irregardless.” 

Edited September 11, 2022 by Scott Lloyd

[MiserereNobis]

29 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

resulting in the linguistic abomination “irregardless.” 

God love you Scott. Thanks for being our grammarian-in-residence! 😊

[theplains]

On 9/5/2022 at 1:50 PM, InCognitus said:

I think you already know the answer to this question from scripture:

Abraham 3:19:  "And the Lord said unto me: These two facts do exist, that there are two spirits, one being more intelligent than the other; there shall be another more intelligent than they; I am the Lord thy God, I am more intelligent than they all."   

It seems that the "Lord thy God" is a reference to the God of Abraham.  

But it doesn't indicate if Heavenly Father of our Earth is more intelligent than all the intelligences
in this realm or if he is more intelligent than even his own Father, GrandFather, and all the other
Gods in the other realms, or if all Gods have equal intelligence.

What do you think?

[theplains]

On 9/5/2022 at 12:35 PM, teddyaware said:

Just as the Father and the Son are one co-equal and interdependent God, the Son possessing in eternal fulness all of the divine powers and attributes of perfection possessed by Father, so too all who become one with God — just as the Father and the Son are one — will possess in eternal fulness all of the same divine powers and attributes possessed by the Father,  thus becoming the sons of God and joint heirs with Christ in the possession of all things.

How do you understand Romans 8:14-17?

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received 
the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, 
Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer 
with him, that we may be also glorified together".

Do you see anything therein which says someone led by the spirit of God does not have these 3
traits: is a child of God, is an heir of God, is a joint-heir with Christ?

[InCognitus]

4 hours ago, theplains said:

It seems that the "Lord thy God" is a reference to the God of Abraham.  

But it doesn't indicate if Heavenly Father of our Earth is more intelligent than all the intelligences
in this realm or if he is more intelligent than even his own Father, GrandFather, and all the other
Gods in the other realms, or if all Gods have equal intelligence.

What do you think?

It is what the scripture says.  There is not a "Heavenly Father of our Earth", he is the one God who is above all.

[theplains]

21 hours ago, InCognitus said:

It is what the scripture says.  There is not a "Heavenly Father of our Earth", he is the one God who is above all.

Would you identify which God you are referring to and who are they who he is above all?

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

Would you identify which God you are referring to and who are they who he is above all?

The "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."  (Ephesians 4:6)  The very "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).  Our Heavenly Father.  He is greater than all other spirits or intelligences.  
 

[teddyaware]

On 9/22/2022 at 4:55 PM, theplains said:

Would you identify which God you are referring to and who are they who he is above all?

Something you don’t appear to understand is that when an individual becomes fully one with God, by becoming joint heirs with Christ in the possession of all things, including Christ’s perfect divine knowledge and intelligence, he also knows all things. You seem to be forgetting the fact that in Joseph Smith’s statement he says God’s goal isn’t to selfishly perpetuate his position as the only intelligence in the universe who knows all things, but rather his actual goal to lift the lower intelligences up by the infinite and eternal power of atonement of Jesus Christ so that they may be one with him and become as intelligent as he and Christ now are. Once one advances to become fully one with the Father and the Son, all 3 share the same perfect divine intelligences and power; where they differ is in order of seniority.

A question: What would motivate God to want to withhold knowledge from his children and keep them somewhat in the dark?

Meanwhile the atoning power of Christ is infinite and eternal, which means that what it is able to impart to it’s fully faithful recipients is infinite and eternal. This is why the Apostle John testifies that those who overcome will be crowned as kings, seated in God’s very throne of eternal power and glory.

“God himself, finding he was in the midst of spirits and glory, because he was more intelligent, saw proper to institute laws whereby the rest could have a privilege to advance like himself. The relationship we have with God places us in a situation to advance in knowledge. He has power to institute laws to instruct the weaker intelligences, that they may be exalted with Himself, so that they might have one glory upon another, and all that knowledge, power, glory, and intelligence, which is requisite in order to save them in the world of spirits. (King Follett Discourse) “

Edited September 24, 2022 by teddyaware

[theplains]

On 9/22/2022 at 6:21 PM, InCognitus said:

The "One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."  (Ephesians 4:6)  The very "God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Ephesians 1:3).  Our Heavenly Father.  He is greater than all other spirits or intelligences. 

Do you believe Heavenly Father (of our Earth) is greater than all the other Gods before him; who supposedly
organized other spirit intelligences into their spirit children on other earths? Or is there insufficient scripture to
answer that?

[theplains]

On 9/23/2022 at 4:52 AM, teddyaware said:

Something you don’t appear to understand is that when an individual becomes fully one with God, by becoming joint heirs with Christ in the possession of all things, including Christ’s perfect divine knowledge and intelligence, he also knows all things.

In Romans 8:14-17, why is it that only those led by the spirit of God are called the sons of God and
thereby joint-heirs with Christ?

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

In Romans 8:14-17, why is it that only those led by the spirit of God are called the sons of God and
thereby joint-heirs with Christ?

What makes you think I’m saying otherwise? The whole premise of my comment is that the only way we can become one with God the Father, and become joint heirs with Christ in the possession of the fulness of all he possesses, is through the infinite and eternal atoning power of Jesus Christ by which means we become the sons and daughters of Christ by virtue of him being the Father of our salvation.

7 And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters? (Mosiah 5)

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by teddyaware

[InCognitus]

11 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you believe Heavenly Father (of our Earth) is greater than all the other Gods before him; who supposedly
organized other spirit intelligences into their spirit children on other earths? Or is there insufficient scripture to
answer that?

Same questions as before, but asked a different way.   I already addressed these questions.  As I said two posts ago:  "There is not a "Heavenly Father of our Earth", he is the one God who is above all."   God is the "Eternal God of all other gods"  (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32)   And the verses I quoted earlier from Abraham 3 back this up as well.

[theplains]

On 9/27/2022 at 3:44 PM, teddyaware said:

What makes you think I’m saying otherwise? The whole premise of my comment is that the only way we can become one with God the Father, and become joint heirs with Christ in the possession of the fulness of all he possesses, is through the infinite and eternal atoning power of Jesus Christ by which means we become the sons and daughters of Christ by virtue of him being the Father of our salvation.

Verses 14-17 describe who the children of God are:

"For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of
bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit
itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God,
and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together."

All the children of God are joint-heirs with Christ.  But LDS theology teaches that only those who become Gods
and Goddesses are joint-heirs.

[theplains]

On 9/28/2022 at 12:05 AM, InCognitus said:

Same questions as before, but asked a different way.   I already addressed these questions.  As I said two posts ago:  "There is not a "Heavenly Father of our Earth", he is the one God who is above all."   God is the "Eternal God of all other gods"  (Doctrine and Covenants 121:32)   And the verses I quoted earlier from Abraham 3 back this up as well.

Is the Heavenly Father of our Earth above his Father (the God before him) or is he just above the other gods of D&C 132:20?

[Chum]

8 minutes ago, Brahms said:

What do you mean by "above"?  In space there is no up or down or sideways.  Things go on and on in all directions. 

That might not be strictly true. Our solar system has the plane of the ecliptic and there's the galactic plane. For both (I believe) there is an agreed-on North which gives us our up. From what I know of universe expansion, it's occurring in an oblong shape which also implies a top and bottom.