Elder Holland: BYU may need to "stand alone"

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, ttribe said:

In your opinion.

To which I am entitled, of course, except for those who keep track of opinions. 

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

You are keeping records? Interesting. Do you know Bob Erickson? 

Nope.  Just been here long enough to know the cast of characters who will start posting on any thread remotely involving homosexuality.  No idea who Bob Erickson is.

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Decades of keeping silent in faculty rooms and training seminars. 

At the University level?  Not grade school.  Not Jr. High/Middle School.  Not High School.  Not a community college.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

17 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

False. I said hijacking it for any personal agenda: “Hijacking it for whatever personal agenda one has will lead to chaos down the road.” 

Have you watched his talk? Was he hijacking it when he talked about Enos and his prayful struggles? The awesomeness of BYU? How his mom who was diagnosed with terminal cancer was able to be there with him? What about when he mentioned being run over by a deer? Only when he said he was gay? Is that something we aren’t allowed to say in a church with an “office of belonging” that “loves” it’s LGBTQ members? Apparently so. The talk was poignant and amazing. 
 

(you can tell how upset everyone was at his hijacking by how much applause that line got)
 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by SeekingUnderstanding

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, ttribe said:

Nope.  Just been here long enough to know the cast of characters who will start posting on any thread remotely involving homosexuality.  No idea who Bob Erickson is.

At the University level?  Not grade school.  Not Jr. High/Middle School.  Not High School.  Not a community college.

Interesting that you don’t keep track but can form such judgments. You should get to know Bob. You can find him on Facebook. 

My comments were about hijacking graduations for personal agendas. You are the one obsessed with homosexuality. 

I have taught at all levels k through junior college. I have numerous friends and family who teach at the rarified levels of The University. I’m not a stranger to the Academy. 

But all that is beside the point.

 

[Bernard Gui]

10 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Have you watched his talk? Was he hijacking it when he talked about Enos and his prayful struggles? The awesomeness of BYU? How his mom who was diagnosed with terminal cancer was able to be there with him? What about when he mentioned being run over by a deer? Only when he said he was gay? Is that something we aren’t allowed to say in a church with an “office of belonging” that “loves” it’s LGBTQ members? Apparently so. The talk was poignant and amazing. 
 

(you can tell how upset everyone was at his hijacking by how much applause that line got)
 

 

Yes. I watched it and followed the events here and elsewhere when it first became an issue. My dad ran over a fawn when I was eight. Traumatic for me and my two little nieces. 
I don’t believe graduation addresses are the appropriate venue for airing personal agendas, no matter the applause line. I don’t expect anyone to agree with me. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[ttribe]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Interesting that you don’t keep track but can form such judgments. You should get to know Bob. You can find him on Facebook. 

My comments were about hijacking graduations for personal agendas. You are the one obsessed with homosexuality. 

I have taught at all levels k through junior college. I have numerous friends and family who teach at the rarified levels of The University. I’m not a stranger to the Academy. 

But all that is beside the point.
 

That's two "I know you are, but what am I?" responses...

[Bernard Gui]

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

That's two "I know you are, but what am I?" responses...

Keeping track again, I see. Do you have a little black notebook?

I hope that’s not coffee.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

I hope that’s not coffee.

Okay...that was a good one.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, ttribe said:

Okay...that was a good one.

I aim to please. 
Wait….that looks suspiciously alcoholic. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[echelon]

I'm not sure I understand the risk to professional affiliations and certifications.  Because I don't see any discrimination on the issue in the school itself, is it solely because of BYU's association with the church that puts the school's professional affiliations and certifications  risk?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

airing personal agendas

Why is saying “I’m gay” viewed as a personal agenda in a loving church? Why is that a personal agenda and not the part about his mom or experiences with the atonement? What does it mean for the gay youth of the church to be told they belong, but talking about their orientation can’t be done?

[Tacenda]

14 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

He’s almost tempting those tasked with accreditation to de-certify and unaccredite BYU and I suspect they’ll take him up on his challenge 

That's what I kept thinking, glad to see I'm not the only one. Often I think the church should lay low, this instance for sure. I have relatives on my husband's side and my own side that have a great love for BYU, like Elder Holland has. My uncle was a professor at BYU. And my BIL and SIL have children that attended and one was a BYU cheerleader who met her husband there, he was a cheerleader, I thought he was the Mascot too, but not positive now. He now teaches at BYU, and I'm pretty sure that will affect him if BYU isn't accredited any longer. Add another to my long list that I'm not going to bore people with, my mother attended BYU and loved watching all BYU sports.

[Bob Crockett]

1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Sad, but necessary if it comes to that. Perhaps Elder Holland sees a different future than some of us. 

As much as I love BYU and valued, greatly, my education there, how can a parent send a child to a university where credits won't apply to transfers or graduate school?  

Can you see what is about to happen?  Your BYU graduates can't go to law schools, medical schools.  They can't get masters in psychology at the University of Utah.  

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[rongo]

Just now, Bob Crockett said:

As much as I love BYU and valued, greatly, my education there, how can a parent send a child to a university where credits won't apply to transfers or graduate school?  

What indication do you see that BYU is in danger of losing its accredidation? Notwithstanding Elder Holland's "stand alone" comment, all indications I see point to BYU and the Church moving heaven and earth not to run afoul of that. Even if it means compromising on standards, doctrine, etc. 

If BYU has to sunset to maintain standards and doctrine, then I'm okay with that. But, I don't trust BYU/the Church to truly "stand alone" when the chips are down. We shall see. I really hope I'm wrong!

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

As much as I love BYU and valued, greatly, my education there, how can a parent send a child to a university where credits won't apply to transfers or graduate school?  

Can you see what is about to happen?  Your BYU graduates can't go to law schools, medical schools.  They can't get masters in psychology at the University of Utah.  

Indeed!

An effective way to isolate the Saints and minimize their influence - unless they choose a school with a decent Institute. It may come to that. I don’t know that UofU would qualify…..😬

[ttribe]

14 minutes ago, rongo said:

What indication do you see that BYU is in danger of losing its accredidation? Notwithstanding Elder Holland's "stand alone" comment, all indications I see point to BYU and the Church moving heaven and earth not to run afoul of that. Even if it means compromising on standards, doctrine, etc. 

If BYU has to sunset to maintain standards and doctrine, then I'm okay with that. But, I don't trust BYU/the Church to truly "stand alone" when the chips are down. We shall see. I really hope I'm wrong!

In what ways has BYU compromised "on standards, doctrine, etc.?"

[Bernard Gui]

23 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Why is saying “I’m gay” viewed as a personal agenda in a loving church? Why is that a personal agenda and not the part about his mom or experiences with the atonement? What does it mean for the gay youth of the church to be told they belong, but talking about their orientation can’t be done?

Consider the venue and the occasion. Get to know Bob. It would be very worth your time. 

[Bernard Gui]

16 minutes ago, rongo said:

What indication do you see that BYU is in danger of losing its accredidation? Notwithstanding Elder Holland's "stand alone" comment, all indications I see point to BYU and the Church moving heaven and earth not to run afoul of that. Even if it means compromising on standards, doctrine, etc. 

If BYU has to sunset to maintain standards and doctrine, then I'm okay with that. But, I don't trust BYU/the Church to truly "stand alone" when the chips are down. We shall see. I really hope I'm wrong!

Interesting. 

[bOObOO]

from Elder Holland:  "...we have to be careful that love and empathy do not get interpreted as condoning and advocacy, or that orthodoxy and loyalty to principle not be interpreted as unkindness or disloyalty to people. As near as I can tell, Christ never once withheld his love from anyone, but he also never once said to anyone, ‘Because I love you, you are exempt from keeping my commandments.’ We are tasked with trying to strike that same sensitive, demanding balance in our lives.”

I don't see anything difficult about striking that balance, even if some people don't like that balanced approach and would rather BYU stand on only one side of the issue.  Nobody is exempt from our Lord's commandments.  All anyone can do is teach correct principles and let others govern themselves.  Nobody can force anyone else to be obedient to God, and God wants all of us to choose who to obey.  We will all be judged by our works.

[smac97]

4 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Given that Holland specifically called for musket fire and denounced the flag waving at BYU, is this tweet even out of line:

Here's what Elder Holland said:

Quote

“In a way[,] [Latter-day Saint] scholars at BYU and elsewhere are a little bit like the builders of the temple in Nauvoo, who worked with a trowel in one hand and a musket in the other. Today scholars building the temple of learning must also pause on occasion to defend the kingdom. I personally think,” Elder Maxwell went on to say, “this is one of the reasons the Lord established and maintains this university. The dual role of builder and defender is unique and ongoing. I am grateful we have scholars today who can handle, as it were, both trowels and muskets.”[10]

Then Elder Oaks said challengingly, “I would like to hear a little more musket fire from this temple of learning.”[11] He said this in a way that could have applied to a host of topics in various departments, but the one he specifically mentioned was the doctrine of the family and defending marriage as the union of a man and a woman. Little did he know that while many would hear his appeal, especially the School of Family Life who moved quickly and visibly to assist, some others fired their muskets all right, but unfortunately didn’t always aim at those hostile to the Church. A couple of stray rounds even went north of the point of the mountain!

My beloved brothers and sisters, “a house divided against itself . . . cannot stand,”[12] and I will go to my grave pleading that this institution not only stands but stands unquestionably committed to its unique academic mission and to the Church that sponsors it. We hope it isn’t a surprise to you that your Trustees are not deaf or blind to the feelings that swirl around marriage and the whole same-sex topic on campus. I and many of my Brethren have spent more time and shed more tears on this subject than we could ever adequately convey to you this morning, or any morning. We have spent hours discussing what the doctrine of the Church can and cannot provide the individuals and families struggling over this difficult issue. So, it is with scar tissue of our own that we are trying to avoid — and hope all will try to avoid — language, symbols, and situations that are more divisive than unifying at the very time we want to show love for all of God’s children.

If a student commandeers a graduation podium intended to represent everyone getting diplomas in order to announce his personal sexual orientation, what might another speaker feel free to announce the next year until eventually anything goes? What might commencement come to mean — or not mean — if we push individual license over institutional dignity for very long? Do we simply end up with more divisiveness in our culture than we already have — and we already have too much everywhere.

In that spirit, let me go no farther before declaring unequivocally my love and that of my Brethren for those who live with this same-sex challenge and so much complexity that goes with it. Too often the world has been unkind, in many instances crushingly cruel, to these our brothers and sisters. Like many of you, we have spent hours with them, and wept and prayed and wept again in an effort to offer love and hope while keeping the gospel strong and the obedience to commandments evident in every individual life.

But it will assist everyone in providing such help if things can be kept in some proportion and balance in the process. For example, we have to be careful that love and empathy do not get interpreted as condoning and advocacy, or that orthodoxy and loyalty to principle not be interpreted as unkindness or disloyalty to people. As near as I can tell, Christ never once withheld His love from anyone, but He also never once said to anyone, “Because I love you, you are exempt from keeping my commandments.” We are tasked with trying to strike that same sensitive, demanding balance in our lives.

Musket fire? Yes, we will always need defenders of the faith, but “friendly fire” is a tragedy — and from time to time the Church, its leaders and some of our colleagues within the university community have taken such fire on this campus. And sometimes it isn’t friendly — wounding students and the parents of students who are confused about what so much recent flag-waving and parade-holding on this issue means. Beloved friends, this kind of confusion and conflict ought not to be. There are better ways to move toward crucially important goals in these very difficult matters — ways that show empathy and understanding for everyone while maintaining loyalty to prophetic leadership and devotion to revealed doctrine. My Brethren have made the case for the metaphor of musket fire, which I have endorsed yet again today. There will continue to be those who oppose our teachings and with that will continue the need to define, document, and defend the faith. But we do all look forward to the day when we can “beat our swords into plowshares, and [our] spears into pruning hooks,” and at least on this subject, “learn war [no] more.”[13] And while I have focused on this same-sex topic this morning more than I would have liked, I pray you will see it as emblematic of a lot of issues our students and community face in this complex, contemporary world of ours.

Surely you can appreciate the difference betwen "the metaphor of musket fire" and, well, actual "musket fire."

A couple of quick thoughts:

1. Elder Holland references Matt Easton's 2019 valedictorian speech where he (Easton) "came out" as gay.  Easton responded via the Tribune here:

Quote

Matt Easton, the gay valedictorian, was surprised and disappointed by Holland’s mention of his action.

“I am proud of what I did two years ago,” he responded Monday, “and I stand by what I said.”

His speech, including the mention of his sexual orientation, was approved by his dean two weeks in advance, Easton said from his home in Berkeley, Calif, where he is about to begin graduate school. “I wasn’t trying to grandstand or ‘commandeer’ the event. I drew on my personal experiences because they shaped my time at BYU — authenticity is not the same as ‘agenda pushing.’”

His intention was not to divide his listeners “but to empower people like myself,” he said. “I hope BYU will continue to be a place where LGBTQ students can feel safe and respected.”

Here's a partial transcript of his speech:

Quote

As I’m sure many of you have felt, I recall countless times here at the Y where I have battled and fought in prayer with my maker. It was in these quiet moments of pain and confusion that I felt another triumph, that of coming to terms — not with who I thought I should be, but who the Lord has made me be. As such, I stand before my family, friends and graduating class today, to say that I am proud to be a gay son of God. [cheering] I am not broken. I am loved and important to the plan of our great creator. Each of us are. Thank you to my parents, my friends, and my mentors here at B.Y.U., who have offered support and helped me remember my divine [inaudible] here on this earth. Four years ago, it would’ve been impossible for me to imagine that I would come out in front of my entire college. It is a phenomenal feeling, and it is a victory for me in and of itself.

2. This seems to be, or come pretty close to, "agenda pushing" (Easton's phrase, not Elder Holland's).  Or maybe not.  

3. That said, I think Easton raises a pretty legitimate point about how "{h}is speech, including the mention of his sexual orientation, was approved by his dean two weeks in advance."  See also here: "Dean Ogles, the dean of BYU's College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences, told INSIDER that the dean's office saw and approved Easton's speech before the event."  That would be Benjamin J. Ogles, dean of BYU's College of Family, Home, and Social Sciences since 2011 (and a stake president from 2014 to 2019). 

If Easton ought not to have "commandeer{ed} a graduation podium intended to represent everyone getting diplomas in order to announce his personal sexual orientation," then perhaps after-the-fact remedial measures should focus on the "dean's office" that "approved Easton's speech before the event."  I suspect that has happened (behind closed doors), but I am surprised to also see Elder Holland publicly call out Easton (even though not by name).

4. I am concerned about the state of academia these days, particularly where academics espouse and advance their personal politics that work against or seek to undermine the sponsoring entities that fund those institutions.  

5. I am also not persuaded that academics are simply engaged in "academic inquiry" when they do this sort of thing.  From the Tribune article (responding to Elder Holland's talk) :

Quote

Holland’s remarks ignited hundreds of responses Monday on social media.

“It is a disastrous message to give to a university faculty,” Michael Austin, a BYU alumnus and executive vice president for academic affairs at the University of Evansville, a Methodist school in Indiana, wrote on Facebook. “It is exactly the opposite of the norms of academic inquiry that most universities operate under.”

The canons that “govern scholarly activity and research stipulate that the research be conducted without bias, and the results published, regardless of whether they confirm any particular hypothesis or doctrine,” Austin wrote. “What this talk seems to be saying is that academic research should begin with the desired conclusion in mind and either reach that conclusion or be dismissed. That is not scholarship; it is propaganda.”

Right.  'Cuz "academic research" these days can give us competent value judgments on religious doctrines governing sexual ethics.

I have little trust in amorphous "norms of academic inquiry," which I think are often modified and/or ignored in academia in order to, well, allow academics to present their personal and political beliefs as "scholarship."

6. I think Austin goes a bit overboard in his comment, as I think academia generally has become quite corrupt, and the folks in academia (both admin and faculty) are doing a very poor job of keeping their houses in order.  Corruption in rampant in higher education.  Wide-ranging corruption of admissions processes.  Sports.  Plagiarism.  Politicking.  Graft.  Proliferation of administrators/bureacrats.  Coverups.  Kangaroo courts.  Supression of speech.  Re-introduction of segregation.  Widespread subsidization of preferred political viewpoints (preferred, that is, by administrators) via paid speeches, alongside widespread suppression of not-preferred political viewpoints (again, not preferred by administrators) via onerous conditions for guest speakers (such as high security fees).  Punishment of unpopular groups on campus.  Lazy, entitled tenured professors who work little and earn much.  Exploitation of grad students and adjuncts.  And on and on and on.

A few items on this topic:

• Challenges to eradicating academic corruption
• Corruption in universities – The tip of the iceberg?
• College admissions are corrupt because universities are. Here’s how to fix them.
• Higher Education: A Hotbed of Corruption?
• Corruption in the Education Sector

7. I am sure there is some tension between academic administrators/faculty and the financial backers of the academic institution.  I think little of that has to do with actual "norms of academic inquiry," and will instead more commonly arise from the entitled attitudes of academic administrators/faculty and the widespread problems found in academia today (see above).  For example, earlier this year the Idaho legislature cut $2.1 million from university budgets "to quell fears from a faction of legislators over universities teaching about critical race theory and providing other social justice programs."  See also here, here, here, here and here for further examples of academics using their lofty perches to engage in questionable/problematic conduct.

8. I overwhelmingly agree with the substance of Elder Holland's remarks.  I can't get on board with the sentiment that "academic inquiry" being essentially a carte blanche entitlement for professor employed by an academic institution to dress up anything he wants as "scholarship," to use an academic posting (often tenured) as a home base for politicking, etc., including speaking and working against the entities that subsidize the academic institution. 

BYU is a religious institution.  It was established by the Church, and heavily subsidized by tithes and offerings of members.  I think Elder Holland's comments are, in the main, pretty reasonable.  For example:

Quote

My point, dear friends, is simply this: I have loved BYU for nearly three-fourths of a century. Only my service in and testimony of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including my marriage and the beautiful children it has given us, have affected me as profoundly as has my decision to attend Brigham Young University. In so testifying, I represent literally hundreds of thousands of other students who say the same thing.

I feel the same way.  I went to BYU twice.  I want it to reflect the values of its sponsoring institution: the Church.

Quote

Such are the experiences we hope to provide our students at BYU, though probably not always so poetically expressed. Then, imagine the pain that comes with a memo like this one I recently received. These are just a half-dozen lines from a two-page document:

“You should know,” the writer says, “that some people in the extended community are feeling abandoned and betrayed by BYU. It seems that some professors (at least the vocal ones in the media) are supporting ideas that many of us feel are contradictory to gospel principles, making it appear to be about like any other university our sons and daughters could have attended. Several parents have said they no longer want to send their children here or donate to the school.

“Please don’t think I’m opposed to people thinking differently about policies and ideas,” the writer continues. “I’m not. But I would hope that BYU professors would be bridging those gaps between faith and intellect and would be sending out students that are ready to do the same in loving, intelligent and articulate ways. Yet, I fear that some faculty are not supportive of the Church's doctrines and policies and choose to criticize them publicly. There are consequences to this. After having served a full-time mission and marrying her husband in the temple, a friend of mine recently left the church. In her graduation statement on a social media post, she credited {such and such a BYU program and its faculty} with the radicalizing of her attitudes and the destruction of her faith.”

I think it's a craven thing to take a job at BYU, take the salary and benefits, and then work and speak against the doctrines and policies of its sponsor.

Quote

Fortunately, we don’t get many of those letters, but this one isn’t unique. Several of my colleagues get the same kind, with most of them ultimately being forwarded to poor President Worthen. Now, most of what happens on this campus is wonderful. That is why I began as I did, with my own undying love of this place. But every so often we need a reminder of the challenge we constantly face here.

Here is what I said on this subject exactly 41 years ago almost to the day. I had been president for all of three weeks.

I said then and I say now that if we are an extension of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, taking a significant amount of sacred tithes and other precious human resources, all of which might well be expended in other worthy causes, surely our integrity demands that our lives be absolutely consistent with and characteristic of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. At a university there will always be healthy debate regarding a whole syllabus full of issues. But until “we all come [to] the unity of the faith, and . . . [have grown to] the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ,”{7} our next best achievement will be to stay in harmony with the Lord’s anointed, those whom He has designated to declare Church doctrine and to guide Brigham Young University as its trustees.{8}

I think this is right.  I also think there is a fair measure if dishonesty by admin/faculty members who work against the Church.

Quote

Reinforcing the fact that so many do understand exactly what that unfolding dream of BYU is, not long ago one of your number wrote to me this marvelous description of what he thought was the “call” to those who serve at BYU:

“The Lord’s call [to those of us who serve at BYU] is a . . . call to create learning experiences of unprecedented depth, quality and impact. . . . As good as BYU is and has been, this is a call to do [better]. It is . . . a call to educate many more students, to more . . . effectively help them become true disciples of Jesus Christ, to prepare them to . . . lead in their families, in the Church, in their [professions, and] in a world filled with commotion. . . . But [answering this call] . . . cannot be [done successfully] without His . . . help . . . I believe,” the writer concludes,” that help will come according to the faith and obedience of the tremendously good people of BYU.”{14}

I agree enthusiastically with such a sense of calling here and with that reference to and confidence in “the tremendously good people of BYU.”

Yep.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited August 24, 2021 by smac97

[california boy]

Is the Church so fragile that people freak out when someone mentions that they are gay in a commencement address?  Does the Church need to micromanage thought so much that it feels threatened if a professor has a different view about a particular doctrine?  Are the students so fragile that anything told to them at BYU will threaten their own belief in the Church?

What next? Telling Church members what they are allowed to read about on the internet or what books they should read?  Or what friends they should hang out with?  

This is about the Church having absolute control over the narrative taught at BYU.  What is most difficult to understand, is given the history of the Church trying to have complete contol over its history and how that turned out.  I guess some lessons are difficult to learn.

[Duncan]

If anything Easton is living rent free in Elder Holland's mind. I had forgotten about it

[echelon]

2 hours ago, rongo said:

If BYU has to sunset to maintain standards and doctrine, then I'm okay with that. But, I don't trust BYU/the Church to truly "stand alone" when the chips are down. We shall see. I really hope I'm wrong!

BYU is a business, not the church itself and as such it's not reasonable to impose it's beliefs on the school as it does its own members. No different than the hotels it owns.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, ttribe said:

In what ways has BYU compromised "on standards, doctrine, etc.?"

It hasn't, yet, not outright, but I have concerns that storm clouds are looming on the horizon. Our family lost interest in BYU over these concerns (my father and I graduated from there, and I have fond memories of BYU in the 90s), and children from multiple friends of ours have returned changed by their professors (some have left the Church, and others have developed philosophies hostile to the Church). Elder Holland acknowledged this with the talk itself (why else talk about the need for BYU to see that it doesn't go down this road?), and also when he specifically said, 

---

"Imagine the pain that comes with a memo like this one I recently received. These are just a half-dozen lines from a two-page document:

“You should know,” the writer says, “that some people in the extended community are feeling abandoned and betrayed by BYU. It seems that some professors (at least the vocal ones in the media) are supporting ideas that many of us feel are contradictory to gospel principles, making it appear to be about like any other university our sons and daughters could have attended. Several parents have said they no longer want to send their children here or donate to the school.

“Please don’t think I’m opposed to people thinking differently about policies and ideas,” the writer continues. “I’m not. But I would hope that BYU professors would be bridging those gaps between faith and intellect and would be sending out students that are ready to do the same in loving, intelligent and articulate ways. Yet, I fear that some faculty are not supportive of the Church's doctrines and policies and choose to criticize them publicly. There are consequences to this. After having served a full-time mission and marrying her husband in the temple, a friend of mine recently left the church. In her graduation statement on a social media post, she credited [such and such a BYU program and its faculty] with the radicalizing of her attitudes and the destruction of her faith.”

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/elder-jeffrey-r-holland-2021-byu-university-conference

---

I spoke of this elsewhere, but the transformation of the McKay School of Education has been appalling to me. The most recent Alumni magazine from the department was filled with educational theories about social justice, systemic racism in education, etc. that wouldn't surprise me coming from other universities. The cover article encouraged structure-free classrooms where students aren't constrained by rules, the clock, requirements, etc. as the way to stop being racist to our BIPOC students A very far cry from my BYU training in the 90s (and, I've tried to envision and imagine how such a free-range classroom would actually function, outside the imagination of the ivory tower. That it is heartily cheered on by academia would be no comfort to a new teacher being eaten alive by a class!). 

A recent BYU news release extolled the virtues of "princess culture" as a way to stamp out "toxic masculinity" in boys.

https://news.byu.edu/intellect/byu-study-finds-that-princess-culture-can-heal-toxic-masculinity-over-time

I note that while the link still has "toxic," it's been changed to "hegemonic masculinity" in the text. I'm not sure what the thought process for changing from "toxic" to "hegemonic" is, but I think it might be intended to address concerns of people like me. It isn't successful in my case. Take a look at the photo gallery at the bottom of the article (boy with his princess doll). 

There are many different things coming out of BYU that seem to many people to be signaling a seismic shift at BYU. The Brethren (or, at least Elder Holland) seem to see the need to address this with words, but it remains to be seen whether they dare to confront it by actions that would be criticized. They seem very criticism-averse lately. 

[bOObOO]

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

Is the Church so fragile that people freak out when someone mentions that they are gay in a commencement address?  

No, but a few members might be, maybe never ever having seen or heard from a real; live gay person before.  And at BYU of all places?  That may have been a rare moment that had never ever happened before.

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

Does the Church need to micromanage thought so much that it feels threatened if a professor has a different view about a particular doctrine?

No,  Why do you ask?

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

 Are the students so fragile that anything told to them at BYU will threaten their own belief in the Church?

No.  Why are you asking these questions?

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

What next? Telling Church members what they are allowed to read about on the internet or what books they should read?  Or what friends they should hang out with?  

You think so?  You think someone would say that?  Besides you, I mean?

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

This is about the Church having absolute control over the narrative taught at BYU.

You think so?  Maybe you're right.   It is BYU so maybe BYU should determine what is taught at the BYU.

21 minutes ago, california boy said:

 What is most difficult to understand, is given the history of the Church trying to have complete control over its history and how that turned out.  I guess some lessons are difficult to learn.

Thank you for giving me these thoughts to ponder.  I plan to think about something else now.