Elder Holland: BYU may need to "stand alone"

[smac97]

An article in the Tribune: Apostle Jeffrey Holland to BYU: Stop aiming ‘friendly fire’ at LDS teachings

Thanks,

-Smac

[secondclasscitizen]

28 minutes ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Given that Holland specifically called for musket fire and denounced the flag waving at BYU, is this tweet even out of line:

 

Good Mormon that Greg smith guy is… lol. 
 

[Bob Crockett]

17 hours ago, smac97 said:

  What are the "professional affiliations and certifications" that are at risk? 

Thanks,

-Smac

 

Well, as one who represents universities on acceditation issues (I don't represent BYU), I predict BYU will lose its accreditation and thus will be the end of BYU.

[Bernard Gui]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

That post was as clear as can be, and no voice to text.

But I cannot type on my phone so I do use voice to text sometimes

I have only the tools available when I have time to spend here, sometimes a phone, but usually a laptop

Thanks for the compliment, but I am not a fan of yours either. If you don't understand my posts, no one is forcing you to read them.

“… he was talking in philosophy, but they were listening in gibberish.” Terry Pratchett Small Gods

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

An article in the Tribune: Apostle Jeffrey Holland to BYU: Stop aiming ‘friendly fire’ at LDS teachings

Thanks,

-Smac

From the article….

“It is a disastrous message to give to a university faculty,” Michael Austin, a BYU alumnus and executive vice president for academic affairs at the University of Evansville, a Methodist school in Indiana, wrote on Facebook. “It is exactly the opposite of the norms of academic inquiry that most universities operate under.”

“The canons that “govern scholarly activity and research stipulate that the research be conducted without bias, and the results published, regardless of whether they confirm any particular hypothesis or doctrine,” Austin wrote. “What this talk seems to be saying is that academic research should begin with the desired conclusion in mind and either reach that conclusion or be dismissed. That is not scholarship; it is propaganda.”

🤣

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

17 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said:

Well, as one who represents universities on acceditation issues (I don't represent BYU), I predict BYU will lose its accreditation and thus will be the end of BYU.

Sad, but necessary if it comes to that. Perhaps Elder Holland sees a different future than some of us. 

[ttribe]

10 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

From the article….

“It is a disastrous message to give to a university faculty,” Michael Austin, a BYU alumnus and executive vice president for academic affairs at the University of Evansville, a Methodist school in Indiana, wrote on Facebook. “It is exactly the opposite of the norms of academic inquiry that most universities operate under.”

“The canons that “govern scholarly activity and research stipulate that the research be conducted without bias, and the results published, regardless of whether they confirm any particular hypothesis or doctrine,” Austin wrote. “What this talk seems to be saying is that academic research should begin with the desired conclusion in mind and either reach that conclusion or be dismissed. That is not scholarship; it is propaganda.”

🤣

No idea what you're laughing about.  He's correct.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/24/2021 at 10:36 AM, Tacenda said:

Thanks, feeling inept today!

Reading over the TRIB article they get a comment back from Matt Easton, the BYU valedictorian two years ago, and it made me want to hear for myself. And the controversy that Elder Holland's statements may ignite or empower Deznat even more. 

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2021/08/23/byu-teachers-are-expected/?fbclid=IwAR2exz13DiUu__44zc3tCnpOfiit-zqCcqkwBV9DBXNwhdPryAAn8J3KN6AHere's a c/p:

Matt Easton, the gay valedictorian, was surprised and disappointed by Holland’s mention of his action.

“I am proud of what I did two years ago,” he responded Monday, “and I stand by what I said.”

His speech, including the mention of his sexual orientation, was approved by his dean two weeks in advance, Easton said from his home in Berkeley, Calif, where he is about to begin graduate school. “I wasn’t trying to grandstand or ‘commandeer’ the event. I drew on my personal experiences because they shaped my time at BYU — authenticity is not the same as ‘agenda pushing.’”

But those were the precise results he got. Which entirely misses the point that graduation and speakers re about the grads and their families, not the person at the podium. Hijacking it for whatever personal agenda one has will lead to chaos down the road. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Duncan]

Something I find interesting from what Elder Holland said, they poured so much time and energy into the question of "same sex" but God didn't reveal anything for whatever reason. 

[ttribe]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

But those were the precise results he got. Which entirely misses the point that graduation and speakers is about the grads and their families, not the indicator the podium. Hijacking it for whatever personal agenda one has will lead to chaos down the road. 

He represented the student body and spoke of his experience as a student, just like virtually every other valedictorian in history.  You just don't like that his experience included mention of his sexuality as part of his journey.  Get over it.

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Something I find interesting from what Elder Holland said, they poured so much time and energy into the question of "same sex" but God didn't reveal anything for whatever reason. 

Too busy finding Bro. Smith's keys.

[Bernard Gui]

Just now, ttribe said:

He represented the student body and spoke of his experience as a student, just like virtually every other valedictorian in history.  You just don't like that his experience included mention of his sexuality as part of his journey.  Get over it.

You have no idea what I do or do not like in this context. Get over it. 

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, ttribe said:

No idea what you're laughing about.  He's correct.

Laughing because he says that’s the way it is, but seeing what is happening on our campi it would be better to say that’s the way it should be. I point you to Evergreen State College as one among many. 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

You have no idea what I do or do not like in this context. Get over it. 

Isn't it obvious?  He's gay.  He told the attendees at the graduation that he's gay.  You don't like that.  You labeled it as "hijacking" the graduation for "a personal agenda."  Pretty simple really.

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

Laughing because he says that’s the way it is, but seeing what is happening on our campi it would be better to say that’s the way it should be. I point you to Evergreen State College as on among many. 

I don't care anything about Evergreen.  I have one of my degrees from BYU.  I have a vested interest in its reputation.  I have a vested interest in its academic integrity.  I have a vested interest in its future.  I've spent time in academia as a faculty member and PhD student.  Academic freedom is paramount.

[Bernard Gui]

Just now, ttribe said:

Isn't it obvious?  He's gay.  He told the attendees at the graduation that he's gay.  You don't like that.  You labeled it as "hijacking" the graduation for "a personal agenda."  Pretty simple really.

False. I said hijacking it for any personal agenda: “Hijacking it for whatever personal agenda one has will lead to chaos down the road.” 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Isn't it obvious?  He's gay.  He told the attendees at the graduation that he's gay.  You don't like that.  You labeled it as "hijacking" the graduation for "a personal agenda."  Pretty simple really.

He probably saved some lives, or helped many cope and think they're not alone. 

[ttribe]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

False. I said hijacking it for any personal agenda: “Hijacking it for whatever personal agenda one has will lead to chaos down the road.” 

Yes, and your record of posting support for gay rights on this board sure shows your empathy and understanding for the impact his sexuality might have on his experience.  Oh...wait...

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

He probably saved some lives, or helped many cope and think they're not alone. 

We can never, ever, underestimate the power of discovering you are not alone in your journey.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/24/2021 at 12:01 PM, ttribe said:

I don't care anything about Evergreen.  I have one of my degrees from BYU.  I have a vested interest in its reputation.  I have a vested interest in its academic integrity.  I have a vested interest in its future.  I've spent time in academia as a faculty member and PhD student.  Academic freedom is paramount.

I have both my degrees fro BYU, therefore I have more interest than you in its reputation. I have spent 42 years in education from k through college. There is no longer such a thing as academic freedom in the sense that it is portrayed in that statement. Evergreen is more the rule than the exception now. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

He probably saved some lives, or helped many cope and think they're not alone. 

There are more appropriate venues for that. 

[ttribe]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

I have both my degrees fro BYU, therefore I have more interest than you in its reputation. I have spent 42 years in education from k through college. There is no longer such a thing as academic freedom in the sense that it is portrayed in that statement. Evergreen is more the rule than the except now. 

And your evidence of that is what, exactly? 

[ttribe]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are more appropriate venues for that. 

In your opinion.

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, ttribe said:

Yes, and your record of posting support for gay rights on this board sure shows your empathy and understanding for the impact his sexuality might have on his experience.  Oh...wait...

You are keeping records? Interesting. Do you know Bob Erickson? 

[Bernard Gui]

1 minute ago, ttribe said:

And your evidence of that is what, exactly? 

Decades of keeping silent in faculty rooms and training seminars.