Status of church

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

If they are going in order, I have seen reports up to lambda…which is not a nice variant unfortunately  

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/07/09/covid-heres-what-you-need-to-know-the-lambda-variant.html

If interested:

https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/health/covid-19-variants-of-concern-and-variants-of-interest/article35301681.ece

CDC’s version:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/variants/variant-info.html

We’re doomed.

 

[Bernard Gui]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Would it be safe to say that by mid March next year we will be seeing the pi variant ? 

Around here we have discovered an extra reason to wear a mask. The smoke from the forest fires. It makes for a very orange moon. 

We’ll know we are in trouble if they run out of Greek letters and start using Khmer.

Quote

The language with the most letters is Khmer (Cambodian), with 74 (including some without any current use). Guinness BOWR.

 

[Calm]

52 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

We’re doomed.

 

They must have run into that problem before. Wonder what they do. Numbers are already used for minor variants of major variants, I believe. 

[kimpearson]

Look at the discussion so far.  I count 1 maybe 2 casting doubt on the good of getting vaccinated and 20 providing the proof that it is good.  That alone should tell you something.  I am amazed how certain human beings only believe truth to be that what they have personally experienced and no matter what others experiences are, those individuals will never be convinced.

I went to church today and noted myself and 2 others with facemasks.  None of the children 2 to 11 wore them.  There has been no encouragement for members that aren't vaccinated to please continue to wear a mask.  No space provided for those who want to socially distance at church (we have plenty of room in the connected gym).  My old bishop, now stake president in a neighboring stake sent out an email claiming the handbook of instructions basically instructed him to shut down all broadcasting of sacrament meeting and encourage members to attend meetings in person.  There was no encouragement for the unvaccinated to wear masks and no mention of making space available for those who wanted to socially distance.  I have attached his email below if you are interested.  Just to clarify the actual practice in this stake.  All online broadcasts have been terminated and I haven't heard of any bishops allowing broadcasts.

Dear Brothers and Sisters, 

We are grateful that the circumstances surrounding the Covid-19 pandemic have improved sufficiently to enable Governor Brown to lift most of the restrictions and thereby allow us to resume the normal schedule and format of Sunday meetings that we enjoyed before the pandemic began. We are also grateful that the temples have reopened and are welcoming members back to worship and serve in the Lord's house. We acknowledge the many sacrifices and adjustments that so many have made over the past several months to bring about these long-anticipated, prayed-for, and welcomed improvements.

As conditions continue to improve and we begin returning to in-person worship services, we invite members to be familiar with a new section of the Handbook, Section 29.7, Streaming Meetings and Holding Virtual Meetings. This instruction teaches: “When possible, Church members should strive to attend meetings in person. However, sometimes this is not possible. Streaming and holding virtual meetings make it possible to reach those who otherwise would not be able to attend…The bishop may, as an exception, authorize a livestream of sacrament meetings and of funerals and weddings held in the meetinghouse…Streams and virtual meetings are not meant for the convenience of those who could reasonably attend in person. For example, the bishop does not authorize streaming of sacrament meeting for ward members who are traveling and could attend another ward.”

With restrictions lifted and in the spirit of this instruction, we warmly invite all members of the stake to resume attending in person Sunday meetings. The Savior promised, “Where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them” (Matthew 18:20). Meeting together to worship, edify each other, and teach and learn the gospel (see Alma 6:6; Moroni 6:5–6) is one way our hearts can be “knit together in unity and in love” (Mosiah 18:21).” If you feel you are not able to attend in-person, please talk to your Bishop. He is the one who holds the keys to authorize an exception to stream a sacrament meeting and administer the sacrament in the home.

Finally, as we return to in-person meetings, we encourage all members to continue to practice sound preventative measures, including hand washing and staying home when sick. Please see the Church's update last week and scroll to the bottom of the article for a more complete list of these preventative measures. We know the Covid-19 virus has not been eliminated. We will continue to monitor guidance from health officials and government leaders and take the necessary precautions to protect everyone's health and safety. 

We love you and look forward to seeing you in our meetings together. As we emerge from this pandemic and all that it has imposed, we invite you to follow President Nelson's invitations in the most recent general conference to 1) make a list of what the Lord wants us to learn during this pandemic, and 2) to increase our faith in Jesus Christ. We testify that “Faith in Jesus Christ is the greatest power available to us in this life.” May the Lord continue to bless us as we move forward in faith.

Sincerely,

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

All online broadcasts have been terminated and I haven't heard of any bishops allowing broadcasts.

Interesting. I can provide an update from my stake. I attended two services yesterday, one in my role as high council member because it was their ward conference, followed by my own ward. Both sacrament meetings were streamed. This was the second Sunday in a row for my ward.

Under our current health guidelines, no one who is sick can attend anything indoors, including church and affiliated meetings. Consequently, when people are sick, they stay home, and we stream the service to them. I'm really glad for this, and to be honest, I hope it continues post-pandemic. Besides shifting the ordinance of the sacrament to the end of the meeting, it has zero impact on those attending in person, and it makes being stuck at home sick on a Sunday so much better.

[Raingirl]

13 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Interesting. I can provide an update from my stake. I attended two services yesterday, one in my role as high council member because it was their ward conference, followed by my own ward. Both sacrament meetings were streamed. This was the second Sunday in a row for my ward.

Under our current health guidelines, no one who is sick can attend anything indoors, including church and affiliated meetings. Consequently, when people are sick, they stay home, and we stream the service to them. I'm really glad for this, and to be honest, I hope it continues post-pandemic. Besides shifting the ordinance of the sacrament to the end of the meeting, it has zero impact on those attending in person, and it makes being stuck at home sick on a Sunday so much better.

Streaming is a true blessing for those whose illness or disability prevent them from attending in person. I think the church needs to think beyond the pandemic, and continue to offer this service permanently. Will some who are physically able to go to church, stay home and stream? Sure, but why should those who can’t attend be deprived because of the actions of others?

[Hamba Tuhan]

9 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

Streaming is a true blessing for those whose illness or disability prevent them from attending in person. I think the church needs to think beyond the pandemic, and continue to offer this service permanently.

I didn't ask why the ward conference yesterday was being streamed, but I know that this ward has an older single sister in it who lives nearly 200km away from the chapel. In the past, someone rang her at home just as sacrament meeting was starting, and she listened in through the telephone. It's possible now that she is able to have the stream with video. What a blessing for her! (Her ministers visit twice/month to administer the sacrament.)

Updated guidelines certainly allow for this:

Quote

Streaming and holding virtual meetings make it possible to reach those who otherwise would not be able to attend. These people may include (but are not limited to) those who:

• Live in remote locations or have limited ability to travel.
• Have physical, mental, or emotional health challenges.
• Are immunocompromised or in a care facility or hospital.
• Are essential workers or otherwise are required to work on the Sabbath.
• Care for someone who is homebound and cannot be left alone.
• Need sign-language interpretation.
• Have allergies that put their health at risk in a meeting.

We've returned to in-person stake/high council meetings as well, but we still have someone Zoom in now and then, whether for illness or because s/he is away. I haven't detected any pressure for this to happen, just a willingness.

Quote

Will some who are physically able to go to church, stay home and stream?

I'm not sure how this would happen. I fell very sick just after Christmas and had to miss church. I contacted the bishop to let him know, and then on Sunday morning he emailed me a link to the stream. It wasn't publicly available in any way.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Rain]

40 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Interesting. I can provide an update from my stake. I attended two services yesterday, one in my role as high council member because it was their ward conference, followed by my own ward. Both sacrament meetings were streamed. This was the second Sunday in a row for my ward.

Under our current health guidelines, no one who is sick can attend anything indoors, including church and affiliated meetings. Consequently, when people are sick, they stay home, and we stream the service to them. I'm really glad for this, and to be honest, I hope it continues post-pandemic. Besides shifting the ordinance of the sacrament to the end of the meeting, it has zero impact on those attending in person, and it makes being stuck at home sick on a Sunday so much better.

How I wish our ward shifted sacrament.  Ours kept it in the same place, but turned off the video.  

[Raingirl]

10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I didn't ask why the ward conference yesterday was being streamed, but I know that this ward has an older single sister in it who lives nearly 200km away from the chapel. In the past, someone rang her at home just as sacrament meeting was starting, and she listened in through the telephone. It's possible now that she is able to have the stream with video. What a blessing for her! (Her ministers visit twice/month to administer the sacrament.)

Updated guidelines certainly allow for this:

We've returned to in-person stake/high council meetings as well, but we still have someone Zoom in now and then, whether for illness or because s/he is away. I haven't detected any pressure for this to happen, just a willingness.

I'm not sure how this would happen. I fell very sick just after Christmas and had to miss church. I contacted the bishop to let him know, and then on Sunday morning he emailed me a link to the stream. It wasn't publicly available in any way.

I didn’t know that some wards did limited, basically invitation-only streaming. The only type of I’ve herd of is the streaming done as a result of the pandemic, where the entire ward is given the link.  This was continued after in-person meetings resumed. It seems to have been discontinued as of this week. But I’m not certain. My ward was dissolved last week and I didn’t receive the usual weekly email with the link. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

I didn’t know that some wards did limited, basically invitation-only streaming.

That's all we've ever done, always sent out in an email by bishop on Sunday morning. Since getting permission for everyone to attend in-person, we only stream on Sundays when people are sick or self-isolating and have asked for it, and then the link is sent just to them. (We always know when someone is home sick because there's a camera on a tripod at the front of the chapel.)

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[JAHS]

10 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

That's all we've ever done, always sent out in an email by bishop on Sunday morning. Since getting permission for everyone to attend in-person, we only stream on Sundays when people are sick and have asked for it, and then the link is sent just to them. (We always know when someone is home sick because there's a camera on a tripod at the front of the chapel.)

That's a good idea except of course the sacrament ordinance cannot be broadcasted.

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, JAHS said:

That's a good idea except of course the sacrament ordinance cannot be broadcasted.

Correct. That's why the same section in the Handbook instructs that 'The bishop may authorize a priest or Melchizedek Priesthood holder to administer the sacrament in person to those who cannot attend the meeting'. In my case, Bishop authorised my housemate to do it for me.

[bsjkki]

We no longer stream in my ward but the two wards I visited recently still do. We streamed from a laptop propped up on a bench. The ward I visited had a fancy camera mounted on the wall aimed perfectly at the podium. I guess it depends on how tech savvy the people in your ward are. Our ward turns off the wifi in the building during services too. This is annoying because now you have to download any video you want to use in a lesson and it's impossible to pull things up in the Library app unless you already had it downloaded. My phone has very limited service in our building.

Edited July 26, 2021 by bsjkki

[Ragerunner]

It will be interesting to see how bad the virus outbreak has to get and how many members need to get sick before some wards and regions reinstitute more safety measures again. Hopefully we don’t get that bad again. But we are not even close to winter and school starts are still weeks away. This virus has a lot of opportunity coming up to really ramp back up.

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 minutes ago, Ragerunner said:

It will be interesting to see how bad the virus outbreak has to get and how many members need to get sick before some wards and regions reinstitute more safety measures again. 

In our region (though not in my stake), worship has been halted and resumed a number of times. It remains to be seen if American Saints will tolerate that.

[Calm]

5 hours ago, Fether said:

Nope

I see you have popped in a couple of times, do you plan on answering my CFRs or not?  The second should be relatively easy to confirm, the first a bit harder.  Feel free to take a few days for the first if you intend on answering it.  The second I would like to see an answer by tomorrow or will report as I think it very important to have accurate info on Covid and not perpetuate false information, whatever that might be.

To make it easy, here is the second one again:

Quote

Flu is just as dangerous for the elderly and those with pre-existing medical conditions

 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

I think it very important to have accurate info on Covid and not perpetuate false information, whatever that might be.

Indeed. Here's an important piece of data when considering the claim under question (published online in Oct. 2019, before the emergence of Covid-19):

'We estimated an average of 389 000 (uncertainty range 294 000-518 000) respiratory deaths were associated with influenza globally each year during the study period, corresponding to ~ 2% of all annual respiratory deaths' (Paget et al., 'Global mortality associated with seasonal influenza epidemics: New burden estimates and predictors from the GLaMOR Project', Journal of Global Health 9:2, Dec. 2019).

Including all influenza deaths, the research continues, might double that figure.

Edited July 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Danzo]

On 7/24/2021 at 7:07 PM, Fether said:

They are all biased (both left and right leaning). The current US medical direct has given mixed messages and has been caught lying about direction he has given.

Biased doesn't mean untrustworthy.   Everyone has a bias, it doesn't mean they are trying to deceived. Biased people can still give us information. If we only accepted unbiased information, we wouldn't know anything at all. 

[bsjkki]

2020 Covid deaths vs flu from 2019/2020 and 2018/2019 season in the US.  Covid was the 3rd leading cause of death in 2020 behind heart disease and cancer.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7014e1.htm

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2019-2020.html

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Edited July 26, 2021 by bsjkki

[Fether]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

I see you have popped in a couple of times, do you plan on answering my CFRs or not?  The second should be relatively easy to confirm, the first a bit harder.  Feel free to take a few days for the first if you intend on answering it.  The second I would like to see an answer by tomorrow or will report as I think it very important to have accurate info on Covid and not perpetuate false information, whatever that might be.

To make it easy, here is the second one again:

 

There have been a lot of comments I have ignored. I have only responded to the ridiculous  ones that are making strawmen of my comments.
On that particular comment, I was wrong. To more clarify what I intended to say, the typical flu is more dangerous for the elderly and people with preexisting conditions… yet it has never been a mass concern. 

Edited July 26, 2021 by Fether

[SeekingUnderstanding]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

To more clarify what I intended to say, the typical flu is more dangerous for the elderly and people with preexisting conditions… yet it has never been a mass concern. 

This is what the call for references was issued for. If this is true, you should be able to back it up. Feelings aren’t allowed to be stated as fact around here. 

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

There have been a lot of comments I have ignored. I have only responded to the ridiculous  ones that are making strawmen of my comments.
On that particular comment, I was wrong. To more clarify what I intended to say, the typical flu is more dangerous for the elderly and people with preexisting conditions… yet it has never been a mass concern. 

Are you saying the typical flu is more dangerous than covid for the elderly and people with preexisting conditions or just a general consensus statement that the flu is more dangerous for the elderly and those with pre existing conditions than healthy, younger people in general. I can see how this statement can be misinterpreted.  My graphs above, back up the general consensus statement about the flu but not in comparison to covid.

And, in comparing the numbers, the flu doesn't kill nearly the amount of people covid did so I guess that may be why it doesn't reach the same level of concern...plus over years, we've had to learn to live with the flu, and we hope the vaccines help prevent death.

[Fether]

1 hour ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

This is what the call for references was issued for. If this is true, you should be able to back it up. Feelings aren’t allowed to be stated as fact around here. 

I’m sorry, I felt that it was commonly accepted that an 85 year old lady on her death bed was more susceptible to death by the flu than a 16 year old. Frankly, I don’t feel the need to find stats that support that.

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Are you saying the typical flu is more dangerous than covid for the elderly and people with preexisting conditions or just a general consensus statement that the flu is more dangerous for the elderly and those with pre existing conditions than healthy, younger people in general. I can see how this statement can be misinterpreted.  My graphs above, back up the general consensus statement about the flu but not in comparison to covid.

I intended just to point out that the elderly and  people with pre existing conditions have always been more susceptible to the flu and other Covid variants.

[Calm]

Nvm…misread

Edited July 26, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

41 minutes ago, Fether said:

I’m sorry, I felt that it was commonly accepted that an 85 year old lady on her death bed was more susceptible to death by the flu than a 16 year old.

Sure, but your statement was “just as dangerous” which was a comparison between flu and Covid…huge difference from your claim now that no one will argue with.

Edited July 27, 2021 by Calm