Jump to content

Pres. Oaks and "Black lives matter"


Recommended Posts

41 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think this is a good example of systemic racism on a couple of levels. One, the establishment of the holiday had to be approved by a system where white people hold the power and were ready and amenable to approve it. Two, like "Black History", this color-based holiday is not viewed as the norm: we don't carve out a "White History Month" because white contribution is the presumed norm. This dynamic is invisible to most white people and certainly void of ill-will, but nonetheless demonstrates where the power remains and which race is benefited even after acknowledgements are granted. This doesn't mean we shouldn't have such holidays or observances as steps toward racial equality, but the role of the white race needs to be included as part of the celebration (for better and worse) to achieve that.

They don't even compare. Whites owned slaves like they were animals, and did atrocities beyond imagination. Watch a couple of movies to help remind you. One of my favorites is "Harriet", but others show more of the horrific treatment these souls went through. Name one white group of people that were property and dragged around in shackles around their feet and necks. Or maybe I misread your comment. Are you saying we need a white lives matter?

Edited by Tacenda
Link to post
15 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

They don't even compare. Whites owned slaves like they were animals, and did atrocities beyond imagination. Watch a couple of movies to help remind you. One of my favorites is "Harriet", but others show more of the horrific treatment these souls went through. Name one white group of people that were property and dragged around in shackles around their feet and necks. Or maybe I misread your comment. Are you saying we need a white lives matter?

Horribly, horribly so.

Link to post
5 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Horribly, horribly so.

I'm sorry, I tend to do that, misunderstand posts. Would you mind reiterating your first comment about whites needing the same recognition? Or the scope by way of comparisons? 

Edited by Tacenda
Link to post
45 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sorry, I tend to do that, misunderstand posts. Would you mind reiterating your first comment about whites needing the same recognition? Or the scope by way of comparisons? 

We need to know the reality of white history intertwined with black history...not only what was happening to blacks and what they were doing, but what whites were doing at the time as well. 

Link to post
2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

This just sounds disingenuous to me. I cannot believe you did not read their site when it first came out - it said specifically that they were against the nuclear family. Both of the founders self-identify as "trained Marxists".  Of course they are racist. How are they any different from White Supremists? They go out of their way to their commitment to Black and Latino races. When white groups say the exact thing for the white race they become the horrible monsters and BLM becomes a benevolent organization that young people bow down to without thought, without review, or analysis of any kind.

I support Black lives, but I am completely against BLM. Their objectives are anything but Black Lives. If they were really in support of Black lives they would have addressed a number of issues that affect the Black community - Black on Black crime, education, housing, etc. among them. The sole focus has been police brutality - ro eally white police officers because they seem to ignore when the police officers are Black. 

Do you have the exact quote that was taken out?  Perhaps what they wrote was taken out because people were misinterpreting what the intent of the statement was.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Oh please. Antifa wasn't even an idea in the public consciousness until 2017 and the Dallas police shooting was in 2016. Not Antifa.

Antifa has been around for a very long time.  It was started in Europe and is an extensive organization.  It was a bLM protest in Dallas 2016 but as you already know, bLM is filled with marxists.  Both have a common theme:  intense dislike of American Exceptionalism and a strong attraction to communist hegemony.  However, Biden is attempting to cop out by saying that these organizations don't really exist except as an "idea" and that the destruction of cities is not the fault of the radicals (only the other side is responsible).

You are also likely familiar with ACORN (a community organizer deeply committed to transforming American society into socialism) whose members have largely transitioned to other radical organizations such as "Occupy WallStreet" (or whatever names that are designed to attract as much sympathy and support as possible).  Many members are in touch through underground tabloids that advertise for activist thugs to be paid anywhere between 20 to 40 dollars per hour (with free busing to points of interest).

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

You are arguing he is Antifa? He is not part of the body count as he is still alive. That was far-right violence.

No, Kyle most definitely is NOT Antifa.  You know better.  He was attacked by Antifa thugs.  Why are you working strenuously to defend or gloss over Antifa?  There are too many assaults by Antifa against conservatives (sucker punches, bike lock chains, Molotov cocktails, etc).

12 hours ago, The Nehor said:

As to your IRS thing that has no relevance to BLM or anything being discussed so I will assume you are just throwing everything at the wall and hoping something will stick? Or is this a snide insinuation that the foul Kenyan, the one and only Barack "The Islamic Shock" Super-Allah Hussein Obama is somehow behind BLM?

The weaponization of various government agencies did in fact happen.  You just are NOT able to refute the actions of Lois Lerner, Brennan, Eric Holder, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and on and on.  Many of them were strong communists or sympathetic to radicalization.  This includes Barak Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) whose parents and grandparents were deeply committed communists.

As for your silly appellation of Obama's Islamic title (which is another of your attempt at indirect ad hominem ridicule of people who disapproved of Obama's energetic promotion of the moslem system), bLM had plenty of support from the extensive network of radical organizations plus the wild-eyed Bolsheviks in the colleges and universities (of which there are way too many).  Yes, Barry's step father Soetoro also had him well grounded in the moslem culture in Indonesia.

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
30 minutes ago, california boy said:

Do you have the exact quote that was taken out?  Perhaps what they wrote was taken out because people were misinterpreting what the intent of the statement was.

 

With a little googling I am sure you will find the exact quote, but as I recall it stated specifically that were against the Western nuclear family - this was tied up with language on their support for LGBQ language. BLM, the organization, is exactly what your brother stated it was. Now, their website is very different from what it was. Before, they were out and proud, now they have taken their objectives and put them back in the closet.  Nothing changes a group better than having millions of dollars waved in front of them and then realize they could lose it all unless they change the perception of their objectives. 

If you want to support an honest, black-centric group that has been active for decades look to the NAACP. BLM has a political agenda that is in direct conflict with Western Democracy. 

P.S. I think in the links I already provided it quoted the part of their page in question. 

Edited by Storm Rider
  • Like 2
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I'm sorry, I tend to do that, misunderstand posts. Would you mind reiterating your first comment about whites needing the same recognition? Or the scope by way of comparisons? 

I will try:

Having a MLK Day in the first place was subject to the approval of a government where white people have and exercise the power.

The white-controlled government structured a holiday that observes Black gains against racial discrimination in federal and state law while not recognizing  the white power structure that created the problem in the first place. Race (Black) is recognized in the celebration, but race (white) is not recognized in the cause of the racial inequality that was protested. Only the Black race gets the attention; the white race is absent and inconsequential, and spared scrutiny.

That white people have the power to make race-focused decisions (while taking their own race for granted as the norm -- they do not speak in terms of being white or what it's like to be white as part of the public discussion) is a form of systemic racism. That most do not realize they are doing it proves the point even more: they are perfectly comfortable running a white system.

Edited by CV75
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
On 10/28/2020 at 8:17 PM, The Nehor said:

It is funny to me that people who talk about the Second Coming being soon get squeamish and indignant when revolutions and other conflicts are brought up as possibilities.

122862866_10221799671839500_514264314882449815_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=BcfGEKOqrikAX9zJvCm&_nc_ht=scontent-den4-1.xx&oh=39fe83d5b5846e933e37ec05a10b611c&oe=5FBFB3B9

Link to post
9 hours ago, longview said:

Antifa has been around for a very long time.  It was started in Europe and is an extensive organization.  It was a bLM protest in Dallas 2016 but as you already know, bLM is filled with marxists.  Both have a common theme:  intense dislike of American Exceptionalism and a strong attraction to communist hegemony.  However, Biden is attempting to cop out by saying that these organizations don't really exist except as an "idea" and that the destruction of cities is not the fault of the radicals (only the other side is responsible).

You are also likely familiar with ACORN (a community organizer deeply committed to transforming American society into socialism) whose members have largely transitioned to other radical organizations such as "Occupy WallStreet" (or whatever names that are designed to attract as much sympathy and support as possible).  Many members are in touch through underground tabloids that advertise for activist thugs to be paid anywhere between 20 to 40 dollars per hour (with free busing to points of interest).

No, Kyle most definitely is NOT Antifa.  You know better.  He was attacked by Antifa thugs.  Why are you working strenuously to defend or gloss over Antifa?  There are too many assaults by Antifa against conservatives (sucker punches, bike lock chains, Molotov cocktails, etc).

The weaponization of various government agencies did in fact happen.  You just are NOT able to refute the actions of Lois Lerner, Brennan, Eric Holder, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and on and on.  Many of them were strong communists or sympathetic to radicalization.  This includes Barak Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) whose parents and grandparents were deeply committed communists.

As for your silly appellation of Obama's Islamic title (which is another of your attempt at indirect ad hominem ridicule of people who disapproved of Obama's energetic promotion of the moslem system), bLM had plenty of support from the extensive network of radical organizations plus the wild-eyed Bolsheviks in the colleges and universities (of which there are way too many).  Yes, Barry's step father Soetoro also had him well grounded in the moslem culture in Indonesia.

a lot of people don't like American exceptionalism. Some people think the original Antifa were American GI's in WW2

Do you live in 1952? everyone is a communist apparently

I think you mean "Muslim" 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
9 hours ago, CV75 said:

I will try:

Having a MLK Day in the first place was subject to the approval of a government where white people have and exercise the power.

The white-controlled government structured a holiday that observes Black gains against racial discrimination in federal and state law while not recognizing  the white power structure that created the problem in the first place. Race (Black) is recognized in the celebration, but race (white) is not recognized in the cause of the racial inequality that was protested. Only the Black race gets the attention; the white race is absent and inconsequential, and spared scrutiny.

That white people have the power to make race-focused decisions (while taking their own race for granted as the norm -- they do not speak in terms of being white or what it's like to be white as part of the public discussion) is a form of systemic racism. That most do not realize they are doing it proves the point even more: they are perfectly comfortable running a white system.

Thanks for your time, excellent points! :) I hadn't thought of it that way. You are spot on! 

Link to post
9 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

With a little googling I am sure you will find the exact quote, but as I recall it stated specifically that were against the Western nuclear family

It said it was against the "requirement" of a nuclear family.  Not that it was against a family itself.

 

I really don't know anything about the origins of BLM or the people that run it.  All I know is that again and again people leave out the "requirement" part of that quote which changes the meaning a lot.

If you can show me that "requirement was added later then I will agree this sounds very anti-family, but I've only known it to be there.   

9 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

- this was tied up with language on their support for LGBQ language. BLM, the organization, is exactly what your brother stated it was. Now, their website is very different from what it was. Before, they were out and proud, now they have taken their objectives and put them back in the closet.  Nothing changes a group better than having millions of dollars waved in front of them and then realize they could lose it all unless they change the perception of their objectives. 

If you want to support an honest, black-centric group that has been active for decades look to the NAACP. BLM has a political agenda that is in direct conflict with Western Democracy. 

P.S. I think in the links I already provided it quoted the part of their page in question. 

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
3 hours ago, Rain said:

you can show me that "requirement was added later then I will agree this sounds very anti-family, but I've only known it to be there. 

Way back machine has thousands of saves of BLM since the website got going in 2014. Find the specific url and most likely can find the original version.  (The suggestion is to SR who is making the accusation, not you)

I only remember it with “requirement” as well.

Edited by Calm
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
16 hours ago, california boy said:

Thank you for posting this.  I have seen my brother fall into this same rabbit hole.  He seems to be especially vulnerable to people who take a quote out of context, twist its meaning and then declaring BLM as a racist/anti-nuclear family/communist/marxist (did I leave anything out) organization.  When asked for proof of his assertions, he swears it is in their manifesto.  When asked specifically where, he comes back saying they must have removed it.

We have seen this same story played out time and time again throughout the history of this country.  I am old enough to remember these same exact accusations were put on Martin Luther King and the civil rights movement 50 years ago.  I don't have that short of memory when these same accusations were put upon the equal rights activist in the LGBT community.  The first thing these guys do is warp themselves in a flag and waive the constitution as their "banner from heaven".  You know that document that guarantees equal rights for everyone under the law.  That group who campaigns as supporting law and order while supporting a president that has pardoned convicted felons who had due process in a court of law.  

This truth has proven to be dead on.  Those that fight equality for minorities under the law first wrap themselves in the flag and the constitution then start hurling everything they can at any minority group that dares ask for those constitutional rights guaranteed them.

There is the often misattributed quote no one can find a source for but is still pretty accurate:

"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

 

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
15 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

This just sounds disingenuous to me. I cannot believe you did not read their site when it first came out - it said specifically that they were against the nuclear family. Both of the founders self-identify as "trained Marxists".  Of course they are racist. How are they any different from White Supremists? They go out of their way to their commitment to Black and Latino races. When white groups say the exact thing for the white race they become the horrible monsters and BLM becomes a benevolent organization that young people bow down to without thought, without review, or analysis of any kind.

I support Black lives, but I am completely against BLM. Their objectives are anything but Black Lives. If they were really in support of Black lives they would have addressed a number of issues that affect the Black community - Black on Black crime, education, housing, etc. among them. The sole focus has been police brutality - really white police officers because they seem to ignore when the police officers are Black. 

Can you produce the actual quote? The only one on the website in my memory is the one I quoted in my post.

The whole “many sides” when it comes to racism is tiresome. Racism from a position of power is much more dangerous than racism from below. It is like complaining that no one thought of how racist the Jews were who may have had hate in their hearts for Germans when they were executed. It is dumb and racism will not be solved by the oppressed overcoming any racism they have while the oppressors continue to extrajudicially harass and kill them.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 1
Link to post
54 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

Isn’t it pretty much always wrapped in a flag?  Anywhere?

It is the cross that is troubling to me. 
 

Seems an not uncommon characteristic of fascist groups either, so not surprising, if disturbing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism

Edited by Calm
Link to post
13 hours ago, longview said:

Antifa has been around for a very long time.  It was started in Europe and is an extensive organization.  It was a bLM protest in Dallas 2016 but as you already know, bLM is filled with marxists.  Both have a common theme:  intense dislike of American Exceptionalism and a strong attraction to communist hegemony.  However, Biden is attempting to cop out by saying that these organizations don't really exist except as an "idea" and that the destruction of cities is not the fault of the radicals (only the other side is responsible).

Not in the United States it hasn’t and linking US Antifa to an outgrowth from Europe is silly. It is also not an organization. There is no leader of Antifa. I have corrected you on this before but you seem to imagine that asserting lies repeatedly is somehow convincing. The FBI did an extensive investigation and found no organization. Now I hear how the FBI is overrun with liberal deep state commies and wonder if these people know how to tie their own shoes. I also DO NOT KNOW that blm is filled with Marxists. I said exactly the opposite of that. Are there some? Yeah, but that is not what the organization is about.

The rest of your assertions in this paragraph are almost too stupid to have to counter. The people trying to survive police brutality are agitating for a brutal authoritarian communist regime? Ridiculous. They tend more towards anarchy than communism but most are just Americans with fairly conventional political views that want the police to stop harassing, brutalizing, and killing black people. Meanwhile the racists who want this to continue bamboozle their followers with shadowy communist cabals operating in the US that do not exist. There is no organization behind all the protests. BLM is a rallying cry and most do not belong to the organization.

13 hours ago, longview said:

You are also likely familiar with ACORN (a community organizer deeply committed to transforming American society into socialism) whose members have largely transitioned to other radical organizations such as "Occupy WallStreet" (or whatever names that are designed to attract as much sympathy and support as possible).  Many members are in touch through underground tabloids that advertise for activist thugs to be paid anywhere between 20 to 40 dollars per hour (with free busing to points of interest).

ACORN was an organization that advocated for the lower economic classes. They were not advocating socialism except in a few areas. They did not want to overthrow the government. They were innocuous until carefully edited video was released suggesting that they were involved in criminal activities and the organization never recovered. Can’t let the masses have an organization. Gotta break it up. Too much like a union.

Underground tabloids hiring activist thugs? What garbage are you reading? That is a debunked conspiracy theory.

13 hours ago, longview said:

No, Kyle most definitely is NOT Antifa.  You know better.  He was attacked by Antifa thugs.  Why are you working strenuously to defend or gloss over Antifa?  There are too many assaults by Antifa against conservatives (sucker punches, bike lock chains, Molotov cocktails, etc).

I do know better. I am not convinced you do with all the misinformation you spread. Those were not Antifa “thugs” (code for black people). They were protestors. Rittenhouse and his family roll up with guns. Something happened and there was an altercation. I don’t know if Kyle provoked or they did. The only video I have seen shows what happened afterwards. Kyle was running away, being pursued. He fell over in the chase and started shooting. If they provoked the fight the shooting was self-defense. If he did, probably not. The video is on YouTube but I am not posting it here. You used it as an example of an Antifa killing. It was not. Two people died but they were not killed by Antifa. I do not know if Kyle is guilty. I do hold his parents morally responsible for taking a teenage boy with an AR-15 into a dangerous situation. I can’t ascribe blame to anyone else without knowing who provoked who.

I am not defending or glossing it over. I am saying it basically doesn’t exist. Anyone can claim to be part of it. It is like asking “Why are you working strenuously to defend or gloss over all the Basque Separatists running rampant in the United States?” I am not. I am not saying they are not involved at all.

I have to admit the myth of Antifa was fun to use. During the protests police were often misdirected by protester allies reporting vans of “Antifa Supersoldiers” in the area or coming from a specific location. They were never real but it did help protesters trapped by police out a few times. I am not going to freak out over a couple of physical assaults when the Poor Boys and the police are gunning people down. Sorry, have to prioritize. Plus, those college assaults are pretty rare.

13 hours ago, longview said:

The weaponization of various government agencies did in fact happen.  You just are NOT able to refute the actions of Lois Lerner, Brennan, Eric Holder, James Comey, Peter Strzok, Lisa Page, and on and on.  Many of them were strong communists or sympathetic to radicalization.  This includes Barak Obama (aka Barry Soetoro) whose parents and grandparents were deeply committed communists.

You are bringing up the discredited Barry Soetero bit. Seriously? The one that uses an ID that wasn’t around when Obama was there and a picture that was taken years after he left the university. STOP! I want to believe you are better than this. They are lying to you and you are just regurgitating it. Doesn’t it make you mad that your sources are lying to you. Why do you keep using and just not care? Do you like the lies that much? This is the procedure the old anti-Mormons used. Throw everything at the wall and hope something sticks.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-student-id/

And if you respond with something along the lines of “Well, that one might be wrong but what about....” I will just laugh in your face.

13 hours ago, longview said:

As for your silly appellation of Obama's Islamic title (which is another of your attempt at indirect ad hominem ridicule of people who disapproved of Obama's energetic promotion of the moslem system), bLM had plenty of support from the extensive network of radical organizations plus the wild-eyed Bolsheviks in the colleges and universities (of which there are way too many).  Yes, Barry's step father Soetoro also had him well grounded in the moslem culture in Indonesia.

Obama does not have an Islamic title. He has a name. I am mocking you and others like you by using it. I coined part of that appellation and have seen it in wide use to mock the ignorant and I am proud to have done so. Obama is a Christian. He did not energetically support the “Muslim system” whatever the hell that means. Being familiar with Muslim culture does not make you Muslim. Do you also complain about the fiery Christian preacher Obama attended church to listen to as well worried that he would follow that and his secret Muslim religion.

Live in fear of imaginary Bolsheviks and secret Kenyan Muslim Presidents if you want but I insist that I retain the right to laugh at your ignorance and bigotry. Please develop a love of actual truth. Facts are so much more fun than the lazy mind-dulling conspiracy nonsense you are feeding yourself.

Edited by The Nehor
  • Like 4
Link to post
32 minutes ago, Calm said:

Isn’t it pretty much always wrapped in a flag?  Anywhere?

It is the cross that is troubling to me. 
 

Seems an not uncommon characteristic of fascist groups either, so not surprising if disturbing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_fascism

Usually. Flags are a strange thing. Patriots like flags as a symbol of the virtues their nation stands for. Nationalists who care nothing about any virtues hold to the flag as it makes a convenient symbol and they can use it to protect them from criticism “why do you hate our flag” while desecrating everything the flag stood for. When you see morally bankrupt people involved in flag worship watch out. They are probably authoritarians or just plain fascists.

  • Like 2
Link to post
4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Two people died but they were killed by Antifa

“Not” is missing

Link to post
21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Thanks for the catch. This is what I get for posting at 2 in the morning. 

I do it at 2 in the afternoon. 

Link to post
20 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

With a little googling I am sure you will find the exact quote, but as I recall it stated specifically that were against the Western nuclear family - this was tied up with language on their support for LGBQ language. BLM, the organization, is exactly what your brother stated it was. Now, their website is very different from what it was. Before, they were out and proud, now they have taken their objectives and put them back in the closet.  Nothing changes a group better than having millions of dollars waved in front of them and then realize they could lose it all unless they change the perception of their objectives. 

If you want to support an honest, black-centric group that has been active for decades look to the NAACP. BLM has a political agenda that is in direct conflict with Western Democracy. 

P.S. I think in the links I already provided it quoted the part of their page in question. 

So you continue to pass this assertion on with NO actual quote.  What a surprise.   This is exactly what I found when I did Google some of the claims my brother was asserting.  Looks like you fell into the same dark hole.

  • Like 1
Link to post
11 hours ago, Rain said:

It said it was against the "requirement" of a nuclear family.  Not that it was against a family itself.

 

I really don't know anything about the origins of BLM or the people that run it.  All I know is that again and again people leave out the "requirement" part of that quote which changes the meaning a lot.

If you can show me that "requirement was added later then I will agree this sounds very anti-family, but I've only known it to be there.   

 

Where does it say requirement?  The quote in the article is, "We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages”You may be referring to the the statement, "'We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.  Where does the patriarchal practice "require" a mother to work two jobs? Where is that written and how is it enforced? How many mothers work in "public justice work"?  That sentence is so full of silliness that it becomes inapplicable to the majority of women. I think the easier sentence is, "We are against a women having to work outside the home and still take care of children and home when they return from their professional career. 

The reason that sentence is left out is because it does not specifically address the nuclear family, which the next sentence does. They treated the family unit as a separate topic and that is what critics are responding to. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, california boy said:

So you continue to pass this assertion on with NO actual quote.  What a surprise.   This is exactly what I found when I did Google some of the claims my brother was asserting.  Looks like you fell into the same dark hole.

DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE? DID YOU READ THE QUOTE ABOVE? HAVE YOU DONE ANYTHING TO KNOW ABOUT THE TOPIC RATHER THAN JUST SAY, "NO, IT IS NOT THAT."  SO IN COMPLETE IGNORANCE OF THE TOPIC YOU WANT TO TELL US YOUR BROTHER IS AN IDIOT AND EASILY LED ABOUT, BUT YOU DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT?  

YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN THIS. 

  • Upvote 1
Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...