Calm Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: Perhaps, but that would also be indicative of a tremendous lack of maturity among LDS members. Are we really that shallow? A good segment is, but that would make sense given there is probably a range of maturity just as there is probably a range of pretty much every attribute since we are a church full of sinful, natural beings in the journey of trying to become one with Christ and likely are closer to the beginning of the process than the end. 4
Calm Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 Has this been put up before...for those who say it is only an Area Presidency: Quote During these special times, Harriet and I try to follow our own recommendation: Mask your face, don’t mask your heart. https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/dont-mask-the-heart-dieter-f-uchtdorf?fbclid=IwAR2HWUAfkvmrVes27Cq6frFgngd-GFWN1r6nEGC3TCwQNwK4LexwvF5eTes
JamesBYoung Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 8 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Perhaps, but that would also be indicative of a tremendous lack of maturity among LDS members. Are we really that shallow? Only in your opinion, I think. No, LDS are not shallow, and this subject is so important and sensitive I think the LDS wish to be guided by the Fifteen, whose weight of authority and appeal of character so far dominate that of area presidencies. 1
Popular Post let’s roll Posted July 12, 2020 Popular Post Posted July 12, 2020 2 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: Only in your opinion, I think. No, LDS are not shallow, and this subject is so important and sensitive I think the LDS wish to be guided by the Fifteen, whose weight of authority and appeal of character so far dominate that of area presidencies. I’d suggest “the LDS wish to be” taught correct principles and govern themselves. The LDS, myself included, ought not need specific direction from Church leaders on this topic. God and His servants have taught us to love each other. As I stated on another thread, I haven’t spent any time studying the efficacy of masks, and i don’t intend to. I love all of God’s children and I wear my mask as a sign of that love, understanding that if I chose not to wear it some of those children would interpret that choice as a sign I don’t love them. I don’t view the choice as a sacrifice of personal liberty or autonomy. It’s a choice to be courteous in the spirit of love, and this form of courtesy requires such a small modicum of effort that I’m mystified why it seems to be a stumbling block for so many. Are we really so entrenched in holding tight to some idea of personal liberty that we’re willing to do so at the expense of a simple gesture of kindness. 7
Robert F. Smith Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 5 hours ago, JamesBYoung said: Only in your opinion, I think. No, LDS are not shallow, and this subject is so important and sensitive I think the LDS wish to be guided by the Fifteen, whose weight of authority and appeal of character so far dominate that of area presidencies. That may be true as a matter of social and psychological fact, but it is not indicative in any way of maturity on the part of LDS members that they can only take instruction from the First Pres. They ought to be able to hear and trust their bishop equally as much. And, in the course of Church development, they ought to learn who their area pres is, and to accept them as well as their local stake presidency. We shouldn't have to wait to hear the big dog bark before we understand what is needed. 3
CA Steve Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 IT'S A GLOBAL PANDEMIC! The response should be consistently at a global leadership level. Ask Florida or Arizona or even my home state how local authority direction is working out. Excuses about how many instructions they have given in the past or not being instructed in all things are nonsense. We have direction on how many earrings we should be wearing so certainly they can talk about mask wearing which is known to limit the spread. The prophet should be making public statements,while wearing a mask encouraging everyone to do the same until this has passed. 1
JamesBYoung Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, CA Steve said: IT'S A GLOBAL PANDEMIC! The response should be consistently at a global leadership level. Ask Florida or Arizona or even my home state how local authority direction is working out. Excuses about how many instructions they have given in the past or not being instructed in all things are nonsense. We have direction on how many earrings we should be wearing so certainly they can talk about mask wearing which is known to limit the spread. The prophet should be making public statements,while wearing a mask encouraging everyone to do the same until this has passed. I am not too concerned or worried about others being worried or concerned about other LDS level of worry or concern or maturity. CA Steve is correct in pointing out that the pandemic is a global issue, so I personally would think the global leadership of the Church would issue a statement. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 12 hours ago, Calm said: A good segment is, but that would make sense given there is probably a range of maturity just as there is probably a range of pretty much every attribute since we are a church full of sinful, natural beings in the journey of trying to become one with Christ and likely are closer to the beginning of the process than the end. Is it possible that COVID-19 is part of a culling process? Are members being tested? If so, is this the end or only the beginning of the trials? 2
Robert F. Smith Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said: I am not too concerned or worried about others being worried or concerned about other LDS level of worry or concern or maturity. CA Steve is correct in pointing out that the pandemic is a global issue, so I personally would think the global leadership of the Church would issue a statement. True, but as someone already pointed out in this thread, many jurisdictions have dealt very well with the virus threat, and advice for the USA would not necessarily apply elsewhere. An example given was New Zealand, where the virus is not a problem. Unlike the USA, New Zealand actually used logic and good science to control the threat. 2
JamesBYoung Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: Is it possible that COVID-19 is part of a culling process? Are members being tested? If so, is this the end or only the beginning of the trials? That is a great set of questions.
Popular Post Rain Posted July 12, 2020 Popular Post Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 13 hours ago, CA Steve said: IT'S A GLOBAL PANDEMIC! The response should be consistently at a global leadership level. Ask Florida or Arizona or even my home state how local authority direction is working out. Excuses about how many instructions they have given in the past or not being instructed in all things are nonsense. We have direction on how many earrings we should be wearing so certainly they can talk about mask wearing which is known to limit the spread. The prophet should be making public statements,while wearing a mask encouraging everyone to do the same until this has passed. I am in AZ. I am high risk. I have advocated for masks for quite awhile. I've been irritated over ward member's facebook posts comparing wearing a mask to Muslim coverings (for several reasons) and posts giving all sorts of reasons why it is stupid to wear them. I've been excited when ward members have done an about face on masks when President Nelson asked us to follow the guidance of our government leaders about this. I have wondered why we even need church leaders to tell us this. Out of all of the people on earth why do we need to wait for the prophet to do a health measure that is simple and inexpensive to save lives? Why as a people are we not at least praying about it with an open heart? And yet, as a global church the leadership needs to think of each area. If no one is allowed in or out of a country where there are no cases without serious precautions then having the prophet tell all the world to wear masks is making him as unthinking as those who reacted against masks without truly considering why it would be a good thing. If the individual area presidencies ask those in that area to wear a mask during a pandemic to show our love to our fellow man and they still rage against it then I don't think having the prophet say something is going to help much. It will then be that the church is "bowing to political pressure". Edited July 13, 2020 by Rain 5
CA Steve Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: True, but as someone already pointed out in this thread, many jurisdictions have dealt very well with the virus threat, and advice for the USA would not necessarily apply elsewhere. An example given was New Zealand, where the virus is not a problem .We are using excuses that justify lack of global prophetic direction that only cover .06% of membership. No wonder Trump got elected. 2
USU78 Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 My wife is immunosuppressed from both lifelong effects of Lyme and other tick-borne illnesses and severe heavy metal affliction from her childhood at about age seven in a submarine base in Connecticut during the Cold War. Her lungs are compromised and her healer- medical team prohibits her from masking up. They don't want her messing with the body's systems designed to expell waste, including the lungs' operations. She is constantly being mask-shamed and bullied while just trying to live her life. I fear for her safety constantly from the unkind through the violent out there. Masks are a horrible imposition for the likes of her. Demanding that she comply (with the immediate attendant risks to her) so that the fearful can look at a sea of masked faces better dang well be worth it, and nobody but nobody should be remotely happy about this. 4
provoman Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 On 7/11/2020 at 3:38 PM, pogi said: I think you are being a little dramatic, and I think I see a conspiracy theory in there too. This virus has only been around a few months and we are already seeing dozens of reinfections in Salt Lake County alone. You shouldn't place so much wishful thinking (because that's all it is) in herd immunity through infection, we simply don't now how long immunity lasts in general. Even if herd immunity through mass-infection was the best answer (wiping out the vulnerable population along the way), we should at least slow down the spread as much as possible to keep the economy afloat and to prevent overwhelming hospitals. We should slow it as much as absolutely possible, especially while we are waiting for more effective treatments and a vaccine. How many days/months between reinfection?
USU78 Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 9 minutes ago, provoman said: How many days/months between reinfection? Snopes sez there is no evidence such a thing is happening. 1
pogi Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 35 minutes ago, provoman said: How many days/months between reinfection? The ones I have seen were between 2 and 3 months.
pogi Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, USU78 said: Snopes sez there is no evidence such a thing is happening. I have documented indisputable proof that it is happening. Healthcare worker who is required to take random screenings at work. She becomes symptomatic in March and tests positive for Covid. Recovers and is only able to return to work with 2 negative tests 24 hours apart. After around 3 weeks she gets her 2 negative tests. She takes an antibody test later and it shows positive for antibodies. She now has 2 tests solidifying her positive results. She also has 2 negative tests (and I think 1 or 2 others after that as part of screening for work) solidifying her recovery. June comes around and she starts feeling feverish again with severe fatigue and takes another test. Guess what? Yep, positive...again. That is indisputable proof. That is just one of 3 solid cases I have seen. There are 2 others which are highly probably reinfections but can't be proven. Who is Snopes? Edited July 12, 2020 by pogi 3
USU78 Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said: Is it possible that COVID-19 is part of a culling process? Are members being tested? If so, is this the end or only the beginning of the trials? I suspect this. I also speculate that this present plague is the result of ignoring prophetic warning: "We warn ...." 2
strappinglad Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 As far as a global FP response goes , the saying "If you want to treat people the same, treat them differently, and if you want to treat people differently treat them the same. " Different strokes for different folks. 4
CA Steve Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, USU78 said: My wife is immunosuppressed from both lifelong effects of Lyme and other tick-borne illnesses and severe heavy metal affliction from her childhood at about age seven in a submarine base in Connecticut during the Cold War. Her lungs are compromised and her healer- medical team prohibits her from masking up. They don't want her messing with the body's systems designed to expell waste, including the lungs' operations. She is constantly being mask-shamed and bullied while just trying to live her life. I fear for her safety constantly from the unkind through the violent out there. Masks are a horrible imposition for the likes of her. Demanding that she comply (with the immediate attendant risks to her) so that the fearful can look at a sea of masked faces better dang well be worth it, and nobody but nobody should be remotely happy about this. My wife was diagnosed with a glioblastoma brain grade 4 tumor , 1 year ago. She has been through 2 brain surgeries in this year and 4 different types of chemotherapy's. Mask will save more lives than our wives. Edited July 12, 2020 by CA Steve 2
USU78 Posted July 12, 2020 Posted July 12, 2020 13 minutes ago, CA Steve said: My wife was diagnosed with a glioblastoma brain grade 4 tumor , 1 year ago. She has been through 2 brain surgeries in this year and 4 different types of chemotherapy's. Mask will save more lives than our wives. Don't believe it. Putting up with it.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, pogi said: I have documented indisputable proof that it is happening. Healthcare worker who is required to take random screenings at work. She becomes symptomatic in March and tests positive for Covid. Recovers and is only able to return to work with 2 negative tests 24 hours apart. After around 3 weeks she gets her 2 negative tests. She takes an antibody test later and it shows positive for antibodies. She now has 2 tests solidifying her positive results. She also has 2 negative tests (and I think 1 or 2 others after that as part of screening for work) solidifying her recovery. June comes around and she starts feeling feverish again with severe fatigue and takes another test. Guess what? Yep, positive...again. That is indisputable proof. That is just one of 3 solid cases I have seen. There are 2 others which are highly probably reinfections but can't be proven. Who is Snopes? Snopes.com is a website that fact checks claims, rumors, urban legends and such and rates them as true, false, half true, unproven, whatever. . USU78 cited Snopes accurately. Here is the link: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-reinfection/ Edited July 13, 2020 by Scott Lloyd 1
Scott Lloyd Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 1 hour ago, USU78 said: My wife is immunosuppressed from both lifelong effects of Lyme and other tick-borne illnesses and severe heavy metal affliction from her childhood at about age seven in a submarine base in Connecticut during the Cold War. Her lungs are compromised and her healer- medical team prohibits her from masking up. They don't want her messing with the body's systems designed to expell waste, including the lungs' operations. She is constantly being mask-shamed and bullied while just trying to live her life. I fear for her safety constantly from the unkind through the violent out there. Masks are a horrible imposition for the likes of her. Demanding that she comply (with the immediate attendant risks to her) so that the fearful can look at a sea of masked faces better dang well be worth it, and nobody but nobody should be remotely happy about this. If my wife were being mask shamed under such circumstances, I would make it very uncomfortable for the shamers.
USU78 Posted July 13, 2020 Posted July 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: If my wife were being mask shamed under such circumstances, I would make it very uncomfortable for the shamers. She owes nobody any explanation. Eschewing busybodiness, seems to me, might just be one of the points of this little exercise.
Scott Lloyd Posted July 13, 2020 Author Posted July 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, USU78 said: She owes nobody any explanation. Eschewing busybodiness, seems to me, might just be one of the points of this little exercise. Yeah, you’re right. Still makes me mad, though.
Recommended Posts