Bombarded With Virtual Church Meetings

[HappyJackWagon]

44 minutes ago, rongo said:

Just got the letter --- it's from the area authority level for us (not having virtual meetings). He didn't cite any Church headquarters directive, so I think this is at the discretion of each sub-area within the larger areas --- assuming that the area presidency hasn't done any directives (like the Utah area). 

This is such a strange thing for me. Like you expressed in your other post, there is a risk of people getting a real taste for doing their own home-centered worship. If church leadership won't allow wards to engage their members with lessons etc, it feels like the church is shooting itself in the foot by reducing its relevance in the lives of members.

As I expressed in a different thread, I've had almost no contact/interaction from my ward. They haven't attempted any kind of proactive initiative to reach out to members. Even ministering assignments have been "paused". There are very few ordinances being performed. There are no church programs. There are no lessons or outreach. Exactly what is the value of the local ward in situations like this? I'm not seeing any benefit, but there could be. I'm just over here scratching my head thinking that the local church isn't very relevant to me right now and it's going to be hard to see relevance when things return to normal after I've learned to function totally on my own without it.

At a time when members really need support and engagement, it is strange to see the church take a step back and essentially say "you're on your own. Good luck. We'll see you in a few months."

Edited April 30, 2020 by HappyJackWagon

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

This is such a strange thing for me. Like you expressed in your other post, there is a risk of people getting a real taste for doing their own home-centered worship. If church leadership won't allow wards to engage their members with lessons etc, it feels like the church is shooting itself in the foot by reducing its relevance in the lives of members.

As I expressed in a different thread, I've had almost no contact/interaction from my ward. They haven't attempted any kind of proactive initiative to reach out to members. Even ministering assignments have been "paused". There are very few ordinances being performed. There are no church programs. There are no lessons or outreach. Exactly what is the value of the local ward in situations like this? I'm not seeing any benefit, but there could be. I'm just over here scratching my head thinking that the local church isn't very relevant to me right now and it's going to be hard to see relevance when things return to normal after I've learned to function totally on my own without it.

At a time when members really need support and engagement, it is strange to see the church take a step back and essentially say "you're on your own. Good luck. We'll see you in a few months."

I agree that there is a very real danger of people disengaging permanently from the ward family and structure, the longer this continues. 

Home and family church sounds good, and it is good, under the ideal. Elder Brent Nielson (Nielsen?), head of the missionary department, was at our stake conference a year ago. He asked the adults, "If all your children knew about the Church and about the gospel came from you, how much would they know?" In my and my wife's case, the answer is "a great deal." But, in most people's cases, the answer is, "Not very much." Which is why he asked the question. 

I see gospel literacy continuing to deteriorate, overall. Come Follow Me is a thin gruel that families are hopefully supplementing, but in most cases, probably not much. We have a family inside joke about the "mail it in" thought questions that form the majority, and the tenuous relationship between some questions and the content ("That was a stretch"). 

If all your children knew about the gospel came from the Come Follow Me reading assignments and the thought questions, how much would they know? Strong families will go deeper, but the baseline set by Come Follow Me is lower than decades or generations ago. Even though the bar is supposedly higher. 

I agree that many will like the taste they've gotten of their version of "home church," even though it's more out of liberation from church structure and commitments than it is out of drinking deeply on their own. I also agree that it is a mistake (in my opinion) to discourage wards from doing optional classes online if they want to (but, I understand the intended focus from restrictive areas. They want to truly put the onus on "home centered"). As we've discussed, I think this will have a depressed effect on the "church-supported" component and wards after this is over. 

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

I agree that there is a very real danger of people disengaging permanently from the ward family and structure, the longer this continues. 

Home and family church sounds good, and it is good, under the ideal. Elder Brent Nielson (Nielsen?), head of the missionary department, was at our stake conference a year ago. He asked the adults, "If all your children knew about the Church and about the gospel came from you, how much would they know?" In my and my wife's case, the answer is "a great deal." But, in most people's cases, the answer is, "Not very much." Which is why he asked the question. 

I see gospel literacy continuing to deteriorate, overall. Come Follow Me is a thin gruel that families are hopefully supplementing, but in most cases, probably not much. We have a family inside joke about the "mail it in" thought questions that form the majority, and the tenuous relationship between some questions and the content ("That was a stretch"). 

If all your children knew about the gospel came from the Come Follow Me reading assignments and the thought questions, how much would they know? Strong families will go deeper, but the baseline set by Come Follow Me is lower than decades or generations ago. Even though the bar is supposedly higher. 

I agree that many will like the taste they've gotten of their version of "home church," even though it's more out of liberation from church structure and commitments than it is out of drinking deeply on their own. I also agree that it is a mistake (in my opinion) to discourage wards from doing optional classes online if they want to (but, I understand the intended focus from restrictive areas. They want to truly put the onus on "home centered"). As we've discussed, I think this will have a depressed effect on the "church-supported" component and wards after this is over. 

I think he probably meant only from the children's parents, without scriptures and all of the other information available on our Church website.  And without their own personal prayers, too.  

Nephi said his father Lehi wouldn't have been able to do it all on his own.... without records of other people, aka scriptures... and he was a prophet who received his own testimony from God and knew a lot that he could share with his children.

I think the reason we need to hear from other people who also learn from God is so that we can have access to all of that information... not just of our own personal experiences with God, but from other people's personal experiences with God, too.  Whether from the internet or from books or from personal testimony, personally, from the people we spend our lives with, as neighbors.  That's what makes every ward valuable.  People we can interact with, personally, rather than only seeing people on some electronic medium.  I know that the people we see over the internet or over television are real people, too, but I think we get something extra when we can actually see people live, and can see them often in person, rather than only seeing them over some electronic medium.  And that will always be a plus for real live people in person. 

[amo]

On 4/30/2020 at 1:51 PM, HappyJackWagon said:

...

As I expressed in a different thread, I've had almost no contact/interaction from my ward. They haven't attempted any kind of proactive initiative to reach out to members. Even ministering assignments have been "paused"...

Now, this is the other end of the spectrum, and I really think it's wrong. Have you contacted your EQ's president or your bishop about it?

[amo]

On 4/30/2020 at 9:40 AM, amo said:

Has any1 here gotten / read the letter from elder Craig C. Christensen quoted in the article from the SLT, where stakes in Utah are asked to  stop holding "sacrament meetings, Sunday school classes, and elders quorum and Relief Society meetings via technology" ?

 

 

Now, if this is happening in Utah,  according to the SL tribune' article, why aren't these "meetings via technology" also been banned  in other parts of the world?

[rongo]

2 hours ago, amo said:

Now, if this is happening in Utah,  according to the SL tribune' article, why aren't these "meetings via technology" also been banned  in other parts of the world?

Different areas, and sub-areas within the areas, are following different policies, as determined either by the Area presidency, or, where the Area presidency hasn't given direction, some individual area authorities have. Where there is no specific direction from there, stake presidents and bishops are either giving specific policies for their areas, or are leaving it up to people. 

While some might be upset that there is not a uniform, top-down directive, I like that there is room here for individual initiative. We don't have to all be in lockstep on this everywhere. 

I can see where individual members might not care for the direction of their immediate supervisors, but we've always had this in the Church, and probably always will. As they say, "it is what it is."

[amo]

12 hours ago, rongo said:

...I like that there is room here for individual initiative. We don't have to all be in lockstep on this everywhere...

" individual initiative " is a great and Divine principle, however here, and always according to the text by the SL Tribune, the reason for the ban on  "meetings via technology" in Utah was because of a suspension from the 1st Presidency, of all public Church meetings, which leaves the entire Church with NO room for individual initiatives

[amo]

22 hours ago, amo said:

" individual initiative " is a great and Divine principle, however here, and always according to the text by the SL Tribune, the reason for the ban on  "meetings via technology" in Utah was because of a suspension from the 1st Presidency, of all public Church meetings, which leaves the entire Church with NO room for individual initiatives

So then, to my understanding, elder Craig C. Christensen considers / interprets meetings via technology in the definition of "public Church meetings", and hence the ban on them, right?

[JamesBYoung]

I have no feeling of being bombarded.

Thankful that I have the scriptures.

A desire to read the Book of Mormon with commentary is growing.  Every year I read it through several times and have for almost sixty years each year.  But now I want commentary.  I have the time to pray and ponder.

[longview]

13 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

But now I want commentary.

As in Institute student manuals or something similar?  In my morning scripture study, I get lots of impressions and insights and will often record my thoughts using Gospel Library annotations and then read the corresponding places in the manuals.  If there are deeper questions, I will get on my desktop ScriptureNotes.com (Oak Norton's app) to do more extensive searching.

[JamesBYoung]

Thanks, longview.

By 'commentary', I mean a new, updated Book of Mormon with a commentary or annotated version.

I am not finding what I think I want at Deseret Book.

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by JamesBYoung

[Peacefully]

Since this has gone on longer than expected I felt that I should get my YW presidency together and start looking at some things we can do so the girls feel like they are still part of the group. We decided to take treats to each YW’s home or send cards each week. I then put together another Zoom meeting to include the YW class presidency. They were excited to come up with some ideas for online activities we can do. One thing they want to do is have a group chat each Sunday. They also have some ideas for Wednesday nights. I want them to take charge of this effort as we have been counseled. I keep reminding myself that it doesn’t have to be perfect and the main thing is that they feel a sense of ownership. The other good thing is that my Bishop has not bee micro-managing us. He seems to be happy with whatever ideas we come up with:)

Edited May 5, 2020 by Peacefully

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

Since this has gone on longer than expected I felt that I should get my YW presidency together and start looking at some things we can do so the girls feel like they are still part of the group. We decided to take treats to each YW’s home or send cards each week. I then put together another Zoom meeting to include the YW class presidency. They were excited to come up with some ideas for online activities we can do. One thing they want to do is have a group chat each Sunday. They also have some ideas for Wednesday nights. I want them to take charge of this effort as we have been counseled. I keep reminding myself that it doesn’t have to be perfect and the main thing is that they feel a sense of ownership. The other good thing is that my Bishop has not bee micro-managing us. He seems to be happy with whatever ideas we come up with:)

I sort of like the zoom meetings!! I also like the zoom meetings on American Idol and The Voice, and some talk shows too. It gives a more personal look at people in their homes, and insight into their lives. Maybe the young women will feel like they can be themselves more. 

[Amulek]

8 hours ago, Peacefully said:

Since this has gone on longer than expected I felt that I should get my YW presidency together and start looking at some things we can do so the girls feel like they are still part of the group.

Our young women meet twice a week via Zoom. On Sunday mornings they have a check-in meeting to see how everyone is doing and one of the girls gives a spiritual thought. Then on Wednesday nights they have some sort of online activity. So far they have done things like a Rhebus puzzle competition, charades, truth or dare (leader created/moderated), in house scavenger hunts, etc. This week they are doing "Cribs," where they give each other tours of their rooms. They seem strangely excited about that one, and my daughter spent the better part of the day yesterday cleaning her room in preparation. 

Just think about it: teenagers cleaning their rooms without a fight. Who says that the days of miracles have ceased.  

 

[alter idem]

If I was unhappy with the way ward leaders were handling this situation,  what would be a good way to respond to it? It's easy to criticize what others do, find fault with their decisions or lack of initiative, but does it help improve the situation or lessen the problems?  Personally,  if I was unhappy with the dearth of communication in my ward, I'd contact my leaders to check to make sure they are all right(maybe they are having serious difficulties themselves)  then I'd share my concerns and ask them if we as a ward could come up with ways to keep in some kind of contact to see how the members are doing. It seems to me that if you miss the ward family, then be assured others miss it too and take some initiative to help.

Not all families hunger and thirst after the things of the spirit,  you can't force them, we, as a church, invite, we offer invitations.  The invitation and the tools are there for families who have little or no knowledge of the gospel or the scriptures; it's called Come Follow Me.  The way the lessons are offered, tells me that Leaders have determined to teach to the lowest common denominator.  As presented,  the lessons may not be suited for many who have a lot more understanding and knowledge, but, I think we'd all agree, those types of members are the minority.  And I think  those members  are smart enough to figure out how to make the program work for them in their home study, so that they too, can grow in their gospel learning. if they are studying,  they can use that knowledge and preparation to help others who want to learn more in the gospel.

When my husband and I served as ward missionaries,  we were also responsible for the gospel principles class and when I'd initially look at the lesson topic, I'd think, how boring and basic! But, I was humbled and grateful each week in how a supposedly simple lesson turned into a wonderful spiritual feast as we got to help others who were hearing these things for the first time, or sharing elementary teachings with some who were returning to activity. It was a wonderful blessing and spiritually enlightening for me also. It was the most spiritually,  socially, enjoyable church class I've been in. It showed me the power and ability of the spirit to work through us to help and serve others, but we must do our part; be humble, charitable and cultivate the right attitude. That wonderful experience would have not happened if I'd kept my negative attitude.

 

[Tacenda]

32 minutes ago, alter idem said:

If I was unhappy with the way ward leaders were handling this situation,  what would be a good way to respond to it? It's easy to criticize what others do, find fault with their decisions or lack of initiative, but does it help improve the situation or lessen the problems?  Personally,  if I was unhappy with the dearth of communication in my ward, I'd contact my leaders to check to make sure they are all right(maybe they are having serious difficulties themselves)  then I'd share my concerns and ask them if we as a ward could come up with ways to keep in some kind of contact to see how the members are doing. It seems to me that if you miss the ward family, then be assured others miss it too and take some initiative to help.

Not all families hunger and thirst after the things of the spirit,  you can't force them, we, as a church, invite, we offer invitations.  The invitation and the tools are there for families who have little or no knowledge of the gospel or the scriptures; it's called Come Follow Me.  The way the lessons are offered, tells me that Leaders have determined to teach to the lowest common denominator.  As presented,  the lessons may not be suited for many who have a lot more understanding and knowledge, but, I think we'd all agree, those types of members are the minority.  And I think  those members  are smart enough to figure out how to make the program work for them in their home study, so that they too, can grow in their gospel learning. if they are studying,  they can use that knowledge and preparation to help others who want to learn more in the gospel.

When my husband and I served as ward missionaries,  we were also responsible for the gospel principles class and when I'd initially look at the lesson topic, I'd think, how boring and basic! But, I was humbled and grateful each week in how a supposedly simple lesson turned into a wonderful spiritual feast as we got to help others who were hearing these things for the first time, or sharing elementary teachings with some who were returning to activity. It was a wonderful blessing and spiritually enlightening for me also. It was the most spiritually,  socially, enjoyable church class I've been in. It showed me the power and ability of the spirit to work through us to help and serve others, but we must do our part; be humble, charitable and cultivate the right attitude. That wonderful experience would have not happened if I'd kept my negative attitude.

 

Well, it helps to have good teachers such as your selves! I was asked to attend during my faith crisis, I guess they needed people. I was looking forward to it, but was let down. It was like the teacher thought it was so dumb to be teaching something we already knew or something, shortly after I quit attending all together, church.

[amo]

7 hours ago, Amulek said:

Our young women meet twice a week via Zoom. On Sunday mornings they have a check-in meeting to see how everyone is doing and one of the girls gives a spiritual thought. Then on Wednesday nights they have some sort of online activity. So far they have done things like a Rhebus puzzle competition, charades, truth or dare (leader created/moderated), in house scavenger hunts, etc. This week they are doing "Cribs," where they give each other tours of their rooms. They seem strangely excited about that one, and my daughter spent the better part of the day yesterday cleaning her room in preparation. 

Just think about it: teenagers cleaning their rooms without a fight. Who says that the days of miracles have ceased.  

 

How about the adults ?  Do you hold virtual RS, EQ, Sunday School meetings too?

[amo]

15 hours ago, Peacefully said:

...One thing they want to do is have a group chat each Sunday...

And why on Sunday & not another day ?

[Peacefully]

3 hours ago, amo said:

And why on Sunday & not another day ?

I’m sure other days would work but our YW class President attended a virtual stake youth committee meeting and doing something like this on Sunday was one of the suggestions they had. This YW invited everyone by text and she is setting up the zoom meeting. Since we as leaders want the girls to lead the way I am all for it.

[2BizE]

One of the great lessons to learn in life is when to say no.   Mormons often have difficulty saying no.  We are groomed from a young age to say Yes, except to body destructive elements such as tea.  
I have worked closely with people from many different cultures and nationalities and ours is the worst at saying No.  I’ve found people from New York and the Netherlands to be the best at saying No.

[HappyJackWagon]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2020 at 9:58 AM, alter idem said:

If I was unhappy with the way ward leaders were handling this situation,  what would be a good way to respond to it? It's easy to criticize what others do, find fault with their decisions or lack of initiative, but does it help improve the situation or lessen the problems?  Personally,  if I was unhappy with the dearth of communication in my ward, I'd contact my leaders to check to make sure they are all right(maybe they are having serious difficulties themselves)  then I'd share my concerns and ask them if we as a ward could come up with ways to keep in some kind of contact to see how the members are doing. It seems to me that if you miss the ward family, then be assured others miss it too and take some initiative to help.

Not all families hunger and thirst after the things of the spirit,  you can't force them, we, as a church, invite, we offer invitations.  The invitation and the tools are there for families who have little or no knowledge of the gospel or the scriptures; it's called Come Follow Me.  The way the lessons are offered, tells me that Leaders have determined to teach to the lowest common denominator.  As presented,  the lessons may not be suited for many who have a lot more understanding and knowledge, but, I think we'd all agree, those types of members are the minority.  And I think  those members  are smart enough to figure out how to make the program work for them in their home study, so that they too, can grow in their gospel learning. if they are studying,  they can use that knowledge and preparation to help others who want to learn more in the gospel.

When my husband and I served as ward missionaries,  we were also responsible for the gospel principles class and when I'd initially look at the lesson topic, I'd think, how boring and basic! But, I was humbled and grateful each week in how a supposedly simple lesson turned into a wonderful spiritual feast as we got to help others who were hearing these things for the first time, or sharing elementary teachings with some who were returning to activity. It was a wonderful blessing and spiritually enlightening for me also. It was the most spiritually,  socially, enjoyable church class I've been in. It showed me the power and ability of the spirit to work through us to help and serve others, but we must do our part; be humble, charitable and cultivate the right attitude. That wonderful experience would have not happened if I'd kept my negative attitude.

 

I've reached out to the bishop a few times now. He has never responded. He hasn't returned calls, answered texts or email. I've known him for many years. Color me unimpressed.

[bluebell]

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've reached out to the bishop a few times now. He has never responded. He hasn't returned calls, answered texts or email. I've known him for many years. Color me unimpressed.

Is trying the reach the counselors an option?

[Nacho2dope]

On 4/16/2020 at 12:29 AM, amo said:

About a week after all church public meetings were suspended due to COVID-19, a new trend has seen the light in many of the units of my stake: VIRTUAL church meetings.

These meetings, according to one of the bishops who implemented them in his ward, are meant “to help individuals be fed by the good word of God”, and are part of a block of 2 Sunday meetings—a devotional by the bishopric (40 mnts.), followed by a Sunday school, priesthood or Relief Society meeting (40 mnts.)

Now, add to this newly born virtual block of Sunday meetings a weekly bishopric meeting, a biweekly WC meeting and a few other board meetings and the result is a real virtual church meeting bombarding… 🤪

 

How about in your units, are you getting bombarded as well ?  😁

 

Amo

Our ward has not done any of this. We have gotten 2 video messages from our SP, and a few Facebook post from our bishop since we have been doing home church. Our bishop was pretty adamant that on Sundays we only take the sacrament and do not do anything that resembles a sacrament meeting. 

[alter idem]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've reached out to the bishop a few times now. He has never responded. He hasn't returned calls, answered texts or email. I've known him for many years. Color me unimpressed.

In the many years you've known him, is it normal for him to not respond to emails, texts and calls? If so,  is it you in particular who is ignored or does he do this to everyone?  

Also, why did you say that ministering had been paused? Were you given some kind of direction not to minister to your people? That seemed odd; ministering is needed, but not in person, of course.

[Amulek]

On 5/5/2020 at 3:33 PM, amo said:

How about the adults ?  Do you hold virtual RS, EQ, Sunday School meetings too?

We have done one Sunday School lesson and one EQ lesson online. However, we have since received direction to try and not duplicate church online, so we are going to be replacing those efforts with an occasional weeknight online social gathering instead. The RS have staked out Tuesdays and EQ will have their get-together's on Thursdays. We're trying to leave Wednesdays open for the youth, since they were the first to act and claim their date.