Bombarded With Virtual Church Meetings

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

You saying this isn’t convincing me much. 

Use of a term as a title doesn’t remove it for all time from being a generic label. 
 

I used “ministers” as a generic for discussion with nonmembers at times before to describe what were then called “home teachers”.  Now it is the official title doesn’t require I can no longer use it as a generic. 

Continuing to use an outmoded term on the pre-text that one’s usage is “generic” is not very persuasive. It looks more like intransigence — especially when it is as easy to use the correct term as it is the outmoded one. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, Calm said:

Who is pissed off?  I think it is funny myself. We can see who lasts longer. I can be very obsessive when I feel like it.

The obsessive pile-on looks like annoyance to me — masked with a smiling face, perhaps. 
 

 

[PacMan]

On March 27, the church explained how it was suspending mass gatherings, including Sunday classes and weekly activities. Instead, members could conduct a home sacrament service as authorized by local leaders. 

Shortly thereafter, our Area explained that this sacrament service should not be a mini-sacrament meeting and not include a hymn, prayer, etc  

Our ward implemented 1 hour of remote Sunday classes, themselves not being “mass gatherings.” This is consistent with the “essential meetings” in Handbook 2.3.  Notably, the church system is often misstated as “home-centered.” Rather, it is “home-center, church supported.” Providing remote meetings seemed well-within the “church supported” instruction.

On April 15, our stake received Area guidance that the church’s March 27 instruction should be interpreted as no Sunday classes or weekly activities, even if remote.

On April 16, the church published updated guidelines supporting a “family worship service” but not explicitly allowing for that to include the sacrament. Further, leaders may “supplement” home-center church. Whether that can be through organizations (like Sunday School or quorum/classes) has not been clarified. 
 

The point - the situation is fluid, which lends to, at times, inconsistent guidance. But that’s okay. We will be flexible and just apply instruction as they are given. 
 

 

Edited April 20, 2020 by PacMan

[Scott Lloyd]

6 minutes ago, PacMan said:

On March 27, the church explained how it was suspending mass gatherings, including Sunday classes and weekly activities. Instead, families could conduct a sacrament service as authorized by local leaders. 

Shortly thereafter, the Area explained that this sacrament service should not be a mini-sacrament meeting  and not include a hymn, prayer, etc  

Our ward implemented 1 hour of remote Sunday classes, themselves not being “mass gatherings.” This is consistent with the “essential meetings” in Handbook 2.3.  Notably, the church system is often misstated as “home-centered.” Rather, it is “home-center, church supported.” Providing remote meetings seemed well-within the “church supported” instruction.

On April 15, our stake received Area guidance that the church’s March 27 instruction should be interpreted as no Sunday classes or weekly activities, even if remote.

On April 16, the church published updated guidelines supporting a “family worship service” but not explicitly allowing for that to include the sacrament. Further, leaders may “supplement” home-center church. Whether that can be through organizations (like Sunday School or quorum/classes) has not been clarified. 
 

The point - the situation is fluid, which lends to inconsistent instructions. But that’s okay. We will be flexible and just apply instruction as they are given. 
 

 

Did your area presidency really forbid you to have a hymn or a prayer when you have the sacrament in your home? That’s contrary to what I’ve heard. Singing a hymn and having a family prayer is not “replicating sacrament meeting.”

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The obsessive pile-on looks like annoyance to me — masked with a smiling face, perhaps. 
 

 

More likely boredom.  Not much happening to comment on.  Silliness is as useful a response in such situations as anything else, imo.

[Calm]

23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Continuing to use an outmoded term on the pre-text that one’s usage is “generic” is not very persuasive

I use it as generic because it is the most sensible generic term imo since I am talking about an area or Area as labeled by the Church and the authorities over it whatever they are called.

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

More likely boredom.  Not much happening to comment on.  Silliness is as useful a response in such situations as anything else, imo.

OK. 

But Bluebell, for one, seems rather perturbed that I won’t roll over on this. Maybe for her sake we should just lay it down. 

[Calm]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

OK. 

But Bluebell, for one, seems rather perturbed that I won’t roll over on this.

Knowing Bluebell as I do I think that is likely an overstatement.  But she may be even more bored by it than the low traffic.  Or maybe she finds it as funny as I do.

[Scott Lloyd]

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

I use it as generic because it is the most sensible generic term imo since I am talking about an area or Area as labeled by the Church and the authorities over it whatever they are called.

I don’t see that it is more sensible, since Area Seventy is what they are called today. “Area authority” harkens back to yesteryear, before the administrative structure of the Church had developed to the point where it is now, with the office of Seventy culminating in the divine purpose for which it was given anciently and carried forward into the latter-day dispensation. 
 

Did you see my Church News link? There really is genius in the organizational structure involving the Seventy office, evidence to me that Jesus Christ leads His Church via revelation to prophets. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Knowing Bluebell as I do I think that is likely an overstatement.  But she may be even more bored by it than the low traffic.  Or maybe she finds it as funny as I do.

Then why did she tell me to stop talking about it so we can move on?

And she called me “bossy.” That hasn’t happened to me in a while. 

And Rain got a bit testy too, saying she doesn’t even care about it enough to try to get it right. 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

16 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Area authority” harkens back to yesteryear,

Not for me and I am the one choosing my terms.  And most people I know get that lower case don't have to be titles.  Maybe I am not someone stuck in the past, but I don't insist that all my word usage be dictated by a particular history.  

And even if I did go there because it was its title, that does not inhibit it from becoming a generic term for me.

Do you see "zipper" as a generic term or not?

https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/56667/41-brand-names-people-use-generic-terms

Edited April 20, 2020 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

Just now, Calm said:

Not for me and I am the ne choosing my terms.

But communication is a two-way process. 
 

There is value in using the correct Church terminology, given to us under inspiration by Church leaders. As I’ve alluded here, it can be doctrinally instructive. 
 

That’s why I’m going to try to use the new term “membership withdrawal,” even though I’m used to saying — and others are used to hearing — “excommunication.” 
 

[Calm]

In a nondoctrinal situation, I don't see an automatic huge value in having a doctrinal discussion.

And I doubt I am confusing anyone by using a useful generic term like area authorities.

[Scott Lloyd]

21 minutes ago, Calm said:

In a nondoctrinal situation, I don't see an automatic huge value in having a doctrinal discussion.

And I doubt I am confusing anyone by using a useful generic term like area authorities.

You don’t need to have a doctrinal discussion to subtly convey doctrinal concepts, such as by using the Church’s current terminology. 
 

And I still don’t get the insistence on using an outmoded term — “generic” or not — when it is just as easy to use the correct one. 
 

Furthermore, whether we are in a “non doctrinal situation” or not, shouldn’t we try to teach or convey truths, even if it’s just by our conduct from day to day or moment to moment? Shouldn’t our very lives teach a sermon?

Edited April 20, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

outmoded term —

I am not using an outmoded term no matter how often you claim that I am.  I am using a term I picked because it covered what I wanted to to cover...pretty much anyone over the level of SP.

[Scott Lloyd]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am not using an outmoded term no matter how often you claim that I am.  I am using a term I picked because it covered what I wanted to to cover...pretty much anyone over the level of SP.

But it doesn’t cover everyone over the level of stake president. General Authority Seventies have Churchwide authority, not just area authority, as do apostles, the Presiding Bishopric and members of the First Presidency. Anyone you could generically call an “area authority” could be called by the correct name, Area Seventy. 

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

But it doesn’t cover everyone over the level of stake president. General Authority Seventies have Churchwide authority, not just area authority, as do apostles, the Presiding Bishopric and members of the First Presidency. Anyone you could generically call an “area authority” could be called by the correct name, Area Seventy. 

Scott, you essentially keep insisting you know how I was using a term better than I know myself.  I don't buy mind reading like that.  Never have.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Then why did she tell me to stop talking about it so we can move on?

And she called me “bossy.” That hasn’t happened to me in a while. 

And Rain got a bit testy too, saying she doesn’t even care about it enough to try to get it right. 

 So you felt like I was irritated because I said I don't care if I was correct?

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

OK. 

But Bluebell, for one, seems rather perturbed that I won’t roll over on this. Maybe for her sake we should just lay it down. 

I’m just teasing you Scott, I’m not perturbed.

I totally understand that it matters a lot to you that people don’t use the term area authorities, but the reaction when people won’t just agree you are right and use the terms you dictate made me laugh.  😆

[Peacefully]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Then why did she tell me to stop talking about it so we can move on?

And she called me “bossy.” That hasn’t happened to me in a while. 

And Rain got a bit testy too, saying she doesn’t even care about it enough to try to get it right. 

Sorry, but I have to pile on, too. I think Calm can use whatever term she wants to use, Rain can think you are bossy and I can tell you that I think your unwillingness to let it go is just silly. You seem to be more interested in being right than in being happy ( on this site). We all have a right to our opinions and continuing to tell us we are wrong because that is the conclusion you have come to for yourself isn’t kind or helpful. It seems like you are unhappy that people aren’t agreeing with you. 

[Calm]

16 minutes ago, Peacefully said:

It seems like you are unhappy that people aren’t agreeing with you. 

That is doing to Scott what he is doing to others imo.  Maybe he is just passing time with a favourite hobby and enjoys this kind of interaction.

[Peacefully]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

That is doing to Scott what he is doing to others imo.  Maybe he is just passing time with a favourite hobby and enjoys this kind of interaction.

That is why I said it seems like he is unhappy. I have no way of knowing since I don’t read minds.

[Duncan]

Our stake leadership is having a big zoom meeting in two weeks, although at this point what else is there to say? we've been saying it and doing it already- but what is the point at this point? tell us what we've already been doing? it would have been something at the beginning of all this but nobody has a crystal ball. We were supposed to have a "Temple fireside" on the 24th, but obviously it got cancelled, I suspect it was to introduce the new Temple President and Matron, which would have been cool, but I guess they'll have to do that another time

[alter idem]

14 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Did your area presidency really forbid you to have a hymn or a prayer when you have the sacrament in your home? That’s contrary to what I’ve heard. Singing a hymn and having a family prayer is not “replicating sacrament meeting.”

Do you really think they would use the word 'forbid'?

If you care, I posted the letter our leaders received from Elder Dunn, of the 70. It's a couple pages back. You can see for yourself exactly what we were told and why I said we were counseled Not to try to imitate a sacrament meeting (my interpretation,  read the letter for the exact phrasing ) in our home, that's probably why some are saying this, it was indeed counsel we were given, not a false interpretation. So, in our home meeting,  we sang 3 hymns, then my husband blessed and passed the Sacrament. After this, we had an impromptu discussion as the spirit moved us, for abt 20 min. Then we watched several talks from the recent conference. Had a prayer. I think we were mindful of the guidelines we were given and it was a very spiritual experience in our home. When we can go back to Chapel church,  I'll miss this.

[alter idem]

20 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I wouldn't call it bombarded. Not at all.

I will say that I have been in more than perhaps others have been. But that's because I'm the stake clerk. We had a stake council meeting on Wednesday, and this morning a stake presidency meeting. Just a few minutes ago our weekly ward "fireside" closed. It was rather like the second hour of Sunday meetings. These were all done using Zoom. Other leadership meetings will be happening in the next couple of weeks, including Bishops Training, a meeting of the stake presidency with Elders Quorum presidents, and later one with RS presidents.  The "regular" members won't be seeing these, of course, so they could hardly be "bombarded". Before the pandemic I used to drive 40 miles to the stake center for either stake council or presidency meetings, about three times per month. Now I can stay at home and meet!  I like it! For the most part, these virtual meetings seem to be replacing what we were normally doing, not adding to them.

One of my ministering families had a death just a couple of weeks ago, and we'll have a memorial service once things go back to normal. But yesterday the brother's casket stopped by at his house for a visit with his widow, who could not be there with him when he passed (he died of old age, not Covid-19). A number of ward members (including my wife and I) drove down there and stood at a distance in a kind of vigil, social distancing all the way. Also some of the family's neighbors. Then after a bit the hearse drove off to the crematorium, and we all waved (or saluted in my case) as his casket went by. We all waved at each other afterwards, said a few encouraging words at a distance, and then everyone went home. So, that was our funeral service, I guess.

The use of virtual leadership type meetings after this Pandemic is over, is something I really hope will be kept. In 2020, with the technology we enjoy there's no reason not to save on time and expense, by utilizing more virtual meetings for church callings and for work. They would not replace all meetings  completely,  but they ought to be used to replace some, imo.