Scott Lloyd Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Fair Dinkum said: Being new, I'm still trying to get the lay of the land, but obviously cracking a joke or attempting humor is not taken well by some. Everything seems to be taken far too seriously and at face value. To be clear, Bro. Lloyd, no where in my poor attempt at humor did I ever say that Moroni was being retired or was "going away" nor did I suggest Moroni was being relegated to the rubbish bin as a symbol for the church just that one of his most prominent roles was being taken over by Jesus. You created a straw man and then attacked me with an argument I never made. In fact I chose my words very carefully to make the point of my joke clear. Read my original post: With respect to my Gaslighting charge, I stand by that accusation. Edit to Add: On second thought. I believe that I am being too harsh. I'm going to give Bro. Lloyd the benefit of the doubt that he was not Gaslighting us when he said To be clear, I never asserted that Moroni was THE church logo , my joke only suggested that his image was one of his many responsibilities. After reviewing this thread I believe Bro Lloyd was making the point that Moroni was never the "Main Official Letter Head Logo" for the church particularity in light of the recent updated "symbol" announcement. I think we are can both agree that Moroni has and is a symbol used within and out of the church as a identifier of both the church and its members. I'm ready to move on...I intended no offense and do apologize if my choice of words offended you. I think you understand me better now. I very much appreciate your effort to do so. Despite the impression you may have drawn, I don’t regard myself as humorless. I’ve said I find Kwaku funny; some here apparently don’t. I even enjoy RFM’s humor sometimes. I’ve laughed at Mark Twain’s disparaging comments about the Book of Mormon, because they are written so cleverly. Let me just attempt to explain why the “gaslighting” remark set me off. Apart from the fact it has very quickly become a cliché, and I don’t like clichés, the word itself has a particularly odious connotation. It implies far more than being inaccurate or even than lying. It connotes a deliberate, elaborate, malicious, even criminal attempt to deceive. The derivation of the word is the plot of an old movie in which there is an effort to drive a woman insane by arranging her surroundings to make her think she is insane already. So I can abide being told I’m wrong. That’s different from having it implied that I’m dishonestly manipulative and malicious. Such is not in my nature. 2
mfbukowski Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 16 hours ago, california boy said: I agree. The person was just making a joke. The Church has said nothing about discontinuing the Angle Moroni logo. And a good angle it is 1
mfbukowski Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Calm said: I believe Scott is talking about the company logo, not various images associated with the organization. Think Disney. Tinkerbell and Mickey Mouse are not its company logo, even though they have been one of many images associated with it. This has the Disney logo overtime: https://Www.turbologo.com/articles/the-walt-disney-logo/amp/ Clearly that castle needs Moroni on top.
mfbukowski Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Not you, you've been baptized Just say that act of contrition on your death bed and you and I will meet up in purgatory Actually I have a document supposedly signed by Pope Pius 12th that says that if I simply utter the name "Jesus" at the end of my life I will receive a plenary Indulgence. Since I will most likely be praying that seems pretty likely. So neener neener. 😜 2
MiserereNobis Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, mfbukowski said: Actually I have a document supposedly signed by Pope Pius 12th that says that if I simply utter the name "Jesus" at the end of my life I will receive a plenary Indulgence. Since I will most likely be praying that seems pretty likely. So neener neener. 😜 Oh man, that means you'll be in heaven while I toil away in purgatory! I'll have to ask for your prayers to shortern my time! "St. Mark of the Rorty Video, pray for me!" Edited April 10, 2020 by MiserereNobis 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 16 hours ago, california boy said: I agree. The person was just making a joke. The Church has said nothing about discontinuing the Angle Moroni logo. If this can be acknowledged/admitted/conceded, then I’ll be content.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Calm said: I believe Scott is talking about the company logo, not various images associated with the organization. Think Disney. Tinkerbell and Mickey Mouse are not its company logo, even though they have been one of many images associated with it. This has the Disney logo overtime: https://Www.turbologo.com/articles/the-walt-disney-logo/amp/ Thank you. You nailed it.
mfbukowski Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 24 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said: Oh man, that means you'll be in heaven while I toil away in purgatory! I'll have to ask for your prayers to shortern my time! "St. Mark of the Rorty Video, pray for me!" Oh my gosh- you are going to be in SERIOUS trouble in that case!! 👺 You better join us fast so you can talk to the Big Man yourself!! Edited April 10, 2020 by mfbukowski
california boy Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 23 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: If this can be acknowledged/admitted/conceded, then I’ll be content. Rolls eyes.
Scott Lloyd Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, california boy said: Rolls eyes. Did you see Calm’s Disney analogy? It was a very good one. There are myriad images and icons, each one associated with Disney, but there is only one institutional company logo. She got what I was saying, even if you guys didn’t. Fair Dinkum eventually did come to understand better. 1
Calm Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said: St. Mark of the Rorty Video Brilliant!
marineland Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 On 4/5/2020 at 8:59 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Since no one knows what he looked like, why not use the image that all of Christianity identifies with? https://www.deseret.com/2009/9/10/20339414/mormons-and-the-cross#lds-president-joseph-f-smith-talks-at-funeral-at-brigham-city-tabernacle-amid-cross-shaped-floral-arrangements 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 On 4/5/2020 at 6:59 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said: Since no one knows what he looked like, why not use the image that all of Christianity identifies with? 2 hours ago, marineland said: https://www.deseret.com/2009/9/10/20339414/mormons-and-the-cross#lds-president-joseph-f-smith-talks-at-funeral-at-brigham-city-tabernacle-amid-cross-shaped-floral-arrangements I don’t see what the link has to do with Bill “Papa” Lee’s comment. What point are you trying to make? 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 16 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: His point is manifestly evident. The cross. I meant the image of what Jesus Christ looks like, as recognized by most, if not all of the Christian world. But the Cross is also one such symbol. 2
Bob Crockett Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) I think most people would think that Che Guevara is Jesus Christ. Suppose a cult developed around St. Francis. As nobody knew what he looked like, the cult developed a modern image of him. Can you see the absurdity of that? Edited April 12, 2020 by Bob Crockett
RevTestament Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) On 4/10/2020 at 3:02 PM, MiserereNobis said: Oh man, that means you'll be in heaven while I toil away in purgatory! I'll have to ask for your prayers to shortern my time! "St. Mark of the Rorty Video, pray for me!" A common misconception - those who die before the upcoming resurrection do not go to "heaven," but instead go to our third estate or spirit world to await the resurrection. Those who die in Christ John 5:24, 26, 29, 39-40 " and abelieveth on him that sent me, hath everlasting blife, and shall not come into ccondemnation; but is passed from ddeath unto elife," which in the spirit world is paradise. There is no "paying for sins" in this state nor is there any price.... John 6:39 And this is the aFather’s bwill which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose cnothing, but should draise it up again at the last day. Edited April 12, 2020 by RevTestament
mfbukowski Posted April 12, 2020 Posted April 12, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, marineland said: https://www.deseret.com/2009/9/10/20339414/mormons-and-the-cross#lds-president-joseph-f-smith-talks-at-funeral-at-brigham-city-tabernacle-amid-cross-shaped-floral-arrangements Uh huh. Mike Reed used to post here on a regular basis. Great book. I'm sure there are many threads on this topic if you look them up. Available on Amazon and even a Kindle version is available. Edited April 12, 2020 by mfbukowski 1
Scott Lloyd Posted April 13, 2020 Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 8:08 PM, Bob Crockett said: His point is manifestly evident. The cross. I get it now, but it was a diversionary response as that is not what Bill “Papa” Lee meant.
bluebell Posted April 13, 2020 Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/11/2020 at 8:45 PM, Bob Crockett said: I think most people would think that Che Guevara is Jesus Christ. Suppose a cult developed around St. Francis. As nobody knew what he looked like, the cult developed a modern image of him. Can you see the absurdity of that? As long as the world recognized who the image was meant to represent, why would it be absurd? 3
Bob Crockett Posted April 13, 2020 Posted April 13, 2020 8 hours ago, bluebell said: As long as the world recognized who the image was meant to represent, why would it be absurd? So. We're deceiving the world with false hope and symbolism?
Popular Post bluebell Posted April 13, 2020 Popular Post Posted April 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: So. We're deceiving the world with false hope and symbolism? No one is being deceived. The church isn’t saying that the symbol is a representation of what Christ actually looks like. The church is being upfront about it being a replication of The Christus, a statue created centuries ago. And how is using the symbol giving anyone false hope? 7
mfbukowski Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) Edit: Deleted. I got carried away with a low blow. Agree with bluebell. Edited April 14, 2020 by mfbukowski
mfbukowski Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 (edited) On 4/11/2020 at 7:45 PM, Bob Crockett said: I think most people would think that Che Guevara is Jesus Christ. Suppose a cult developed around St. Francis. As nobody knew what he looked like, the cult developed a modern image of him. Can you see the absurdity of that? Oh my gosh. That is how symbols become symbols. Newsflash: Symbols are not literal. He has been portrayed as a member of any race you can think of, including the usual LDS blue-eyed Christ. Edited April 14, 2020 by mfbukowski 2
mfbukowski Posted April 14, 2020 Posted April 14, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 1:29 PM, Scott Lloyd said: The derivation of the word is the plot of an old movie in which there is an effort to drive a woman insane by arranging her surroundings to make her think she is insane already. Scott, what movie was that? Unfortunately I guess I'm a little behind the times.
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