Repentance and Baptism

[Sunslight]

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity? Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism? Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Sunslight said:

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity? Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism? Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

In terms of what repentance involves, no, people don't need to be baptized before being able to repent... to change their direction or course in life, no longer doing things that are bad, preferring instead to do things that are good to do.

In terms of repentance wiping away all of our sins, though, no, I don't think people can have all of their sins remitted without being baptized and accepting the covenant we make when we are baptized.  Baptism symbolizes washing all of our sins away, becoming a new creature, determined to do the will of God instead of our own will as we did in the past which was not always in  harmony with the will of God.  And baptism also involves receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost so that we can know what we should do, with a person to guide us who is like God and will reveal God's will to us.  So baptism property administered by authorized representatives of God is necessary before we can have all of our sins washed away, even though we can (and should) repent of all of the sins we know of before we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Edited January 31, 2020 by Ahab

[Sunslight]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

In terms of what repentance involves, no, people don't need to be baptized before being able to repent... to change their direction or course in life, no longer doing things that are bad, preferring instead to do things that are good to do.

In terms of repentance wiping away all of our sins, though, no, I don't think people can have all of their sins remitted without being baptized and accepting the covenant we make when we are baptized.  Baptism symbolizes washing all of our sins away, becoming a new creature, determined to do the will of God instead of our own will as we did in the past which was not always in  harmony with the will of God.  And baptism also involves receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost so that we can know what we should do, with a person to guide us who is like God and will reveal God's will to us.  So baptism property administered by authorized representatives of God is necessary before we can have all of our sins washed away, even though we can (and should) repent of all of the sins we know of before we are baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

If remission is synonymous with "forgiven" Would you say that baptism is the means whereby the Father forgives sins? Or is there another way?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Sunslight

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity? Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism? Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

It's a misconception that baptism itself removes sins.

It only kind of does.  Baptism is a sign that we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, that we want to be part of his Kingdom, and accept the atonement.  The atonement remits sins.  Baptism lets it.

And to enter Christ's kingdom  (Celestial) baptism is needed of living and dead.  Which is why we do baptism for the dead.

[Sunslight]

8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It's a misconception that baptism itself removes sins.

It only kind of does.  Baptism is a sign that we accept Christ as our Lord and Savior, that we want to be part of his Kingdom, and accept the atonement.  The atonement remits sins.  Baptism lets it.

And to enter Christ's kingdom  (Celestial) baptism is needed of living and dead.  Which is why we do baptism for the dead.

Vicarious baptism for the dead is for the remission of sins. If all sins are forgiven except the unpardonable sin does this mean that it is baptism that allows for all these sins to be remitted?

Edited January 31, 2020 by Sunslight

[Ahab]

11 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

If remission is synonymous with "forgiven" Would you say that baptism is the means whereby the Father forgives sins? Or is there another way?

Our Lord prayed to our Father asking him to forgive others who didn't know what they were doing, so apparently there is another way other than being people receiving the covenant of baptism.

I would say that our Lord offers the only way we can be forgiven for our sins, though.  Because of what he did for us, he now has the power to forgive us, and our Father has given that power to him.  So whoever our Lord forgives is forgiven.  And we should forgive everybody for everything they do that is wrong, too, because our Lord told us we should.

[JAHS]

I think people of other faiths who sincerely repent of their sins can be forgiven and can feel that forgiveness from God without baptism.  It keeps them from going to a lessor degree of glory in the next life.
"These are they who are honorable men of the earth,"  who obtain the Terrestrial kingdom rather than the Telestial kingdom if they had not repented and lived the commandments better.
Baptism is symbolic of having ones sins washed away (Acts 22:16), but the main purpose for baptism is to enter God's kingdom on earth and have the chance for exaltation. 

 

[smac97]

5 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity?

I think baptism is a necessary part of being saved.

5 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism?

I'm not sure what this means.

5 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

Possibly.  See D&C 137:

Quote

7. Thus came the voice of the Lord unto me, saying: All who have died without a knowledge of this gospel, who would have received it if they had been permitted to tarry, shall be heirs of the celestial kingdom of God;
8. Also all that shall die henceforth without a knowledge of it, who would have received it with all their hearts, shall be heirs of that kingdom;
9. For I, the Lord, will judge all men according to their works, according to the desire of their hearts.
10. And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven.

However, it may be that such people will eventually need to be baptized:

Quote

In the Millennium, when the Kingdom of God is established on the earth in power, glory and perfection, and the reign of wickedness that has so long prevailed is subdued, the Saints of God will have the privilege of building their temples, and of entering into them, becoming, as it were, pillars in the temples of God [see Revelation 3:12], and they will officiate for their dead. Then we will see our friends come up, and perhaps some that we have been acquainted with here. … And we will have revelations to know our forefathers clear back to Father Adam and Mother Eve, and we will enter into the temples of God and officiate for them. Then [children] will be sealed to [parents] until the chain is made perfect back to Adam, so that there will be a perfect chain of Priesthood from Adam to the winding-up scene.

(Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Brigham Young [1997], 333–34).

On balance, I'm inclined to believe that yes, baptism will be required for all those who receive Celestial Glory.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Sunslight]

58 minutes ago, smac97 said:

I think baptism is a necessary part of being saved.

I'm not sure what this means.

Possibly.  See D&C 137:

However, it may be that such people will eventually need to be baptized:

On balance, I'm inclined to believe that yes, baptism will be required for all those who receive Celestial Glory.

Thanks,

-Smac

Do you believe all sins except for the unpardonable sin will be remitted? 

[Robert F. Smith]

7 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity? Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism? Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

Not in eternity.  That's too late.  Has to be done before eternity arrives.

All humans must be baptized.  It is an ordinance/sacrament of salvation, and must be performed on this Earth, either actively by the subject or by proxy on behalf of that subject.  All other ordinances must also be performed on this Earth before the End comes.  For those who did not receive them on this side of the veil, they will all be performed for them by proxy.  Those on the other side of the veil can either accept or reject those ordinances.  All people, living and dead, have free agency.

Only the Atonement of Christ saves anyone.  But His grace must be accepted in order to have value at the Last Judgment.  That is the core of the Plan of Salvation.

God has made an offer.  A free offer.  One has only to accept it.  I believe that most will accept it.

[The Nehor]

I have been taught and believe baptism is required for all who will enter Celestial glory with the possible exceptions of those who die unaccountable and possibly those born in the Millenium. Everyone else needs it and even the possible exceptions might.

The lesser degrees of glory are redemption and involve repentance to qualify for but God does not give us a lot of detail there probably because God does not want us focused on Terrestrial glory.

[Jane_Doe]

13 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Going along with a previous post on being "saved", does repentance require baptism in eternity? Does the remission of sins hinge off of baptism? Can sins be remitted in eternity without baptism?

If you say you repent, but don't want to flow His commands and take His name upon you... well, you might be talking the talk, but not doing the walking: so is your heart REALLY in this?

[JLHPROF]

Every kingdom has a law given.  Repentance of a broken law and following the requisite law will gain the blessings of that kingdom.  And each individual blessing has its own law attached.  Don't follow the law, don't get the blessing.

That's true for Telestial, Terrestrial, or Celestial blessings.

There will never come a time where we stop living up to newer higher laws to receive new light and blessings.  Even in eternity.

[Freedom]

The bible dictionary provides the following purposes of baptism:

"Baptism in water has several purposes. It is for the remission of sins, for membership in the Church, and for entrance into the celestial kingdom; it is also the doorway to personal sanctification when followed by the reception of the Holy Ghost."

Baptism is required for the remission of sings, but sanctification of obtain from the reception of the holy ghost. 

Repentance cannot occur without the remission of sins and sanctification. This is why we are not baptism until we are 8 years of age, we are not capable of sinning until that age. Baptism allows us to complete the process of repentance of  having the sins remitted. The power of the holy ghost is then applied to purify our soul. 

[rpn]

I'd say likely not because Their Plan calls for all persons to be baptized in life or by proxy.

[teddyaware]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have been taught and believe baptism is required for all who will enter Celestial glory with the possible exceptions of those who die unaccountable and possibly those born in the Millenium. Everyone else needs it and even the possible exceptions might.

The lesser degrees of glory are redemption and involve repentance to qualify for but God does not give us a lot of detail there probably because God does not want us focused on Terrestrial glory.

First of all, Doctrine and Covenants 76 makes it clear that all those who inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom will have accepted the gospel of Christ in the flesh or in the spirit world. Baptism by water is integral to the gospel of Christ and obligatory to all who accept it. So that answers the baptismal question insofar as the Inheritors of the Terrestrial glory are concerned.

Now what about baptism as a requirement for those who inherit the Telestial glory? Speaking of the inheritors of the Telestial Kingdom, here’s what Doctrine and Covenants 138 has to say::

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets (an obvious reference to those who are cast into the spirit prison at death because they rejected the gospel message while in the flesh).

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, (D&C 138)

and...

57 I beheld that the faithful elders of this dispensation, when they depart from mortal life, continue their labors in the preaching of the gospel of repentance and redemption, through the sacrifice of the Only Begotten Son of God, among those who are in darkness and under the bondage of sin in the great world of the spirits of the dead (a reference to the spirit prison, or hell).

58 The dead who repent will be redeemed, through obedience to the ordinances of the house of God (which temple ordinances include baptism),

59 And after they have paid the penalty of their transgressions (an obvious reference to those who are cast into the spirit prison at death) and are washed clean (an obvious reference to water baptism) shall receive a reward according to their works, for they are heirs of salvation. (D&C 138)

 

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by teddyaware

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

First of all, Doctrine and Covenants 76 makes it clear that all those who inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom will have accepted the gospel of Christ in the flesh or in the spirit world. Baptism by water is integral to the gospel of Christ and obligatory to all who accept it. So that answers the baptismal question insofar as the Inheritors of the Terrestrial glory are concerned.

I'm not so sure about that.  Scripture is clear that baptism provides entrance to the Celestial kingdom.  If they receive baptism they are no longer terrestrial.

[InCognitus]

36 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

First of all, Doctrine and Covenants 76 makes it clear that all those who inherit the Terrestrial Kingdom will have accepted the gospel of Christ in the flesh or in the spirit world. Baptism by water is integral to the gospel of Christ and obligatory to all who accept it. So that answers the baptismal question insofar as the Inheritors of the Terrestrial glory are concerned.

I'm not so sure about that.  Scripture is clear that baptism provides entrance to the Celestial kingdom.  If they receive baptism they are no longer terrestrial.

You are right that baptism isn't an essential part of Terrestial or Telestial admission, or at least that's what it sounds like based on what Joseph Smith taught.

I posted these quotes in the "damned" thread (hmmm.... does that mean that thread has no progression? ), but it looks like I should have posted them here.  But I'm pretty sure this same question was raised both threads.

Here is the quote from Joseph Smith, and he's talking about being born again of water (water baptism) and of the Spirit:

  Quote

Every man lives for himself. Adam was made to open the way of the world, and for dressing the garden. Noah was born to save seed of everything, when the earth was washed of its wickedness by the flood; and the Son of God came into the world to redeem it from the fall. But except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This eternal truth settles the question of all men's religion. A man may be saved, after the judgment, in the terrestrial kingdom, or in the telestial kingdom, but he can never see the celestial kingdom of God, without being born of water and the Spirit. He may receive a glory like unto the moon, [i.e., of which the light of the moon is typical], or a star, [i.e., of which the light of the stars is typical], but he can never come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels; to the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, unless he becomes as a little child, and is taught by the Spirit of God.  (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section One 1830–34, p.12, in The Joseph Smith Papers:  History, 1838–1856, volume A-1 [23 December 1805–30 August 1834])

And then there's this quote from Joseph Fielding Smith:

  Quote

Who, among Latter-day Saints, is seeking a place in the telestial kingdom? Who, among the Latter-day Saints, is seeking a place in the terrestrial kingdom? With those kingdoms we should want nothing to do; it is not the intention of the man who is baptized into the Church, or ought not to be, to so live that he will not find a place in the celestial kingdom of God; for baptism, itself, is the way into that kingdom. Baptism is of two-fold nature; primarily for the remission of sins, and then, entrance into the kingdom of God, not the telestial kingdom, not into the terrestrial kingdom, but entrance into the celestial kingdom, where God dwells. That is what baptism is for; that is what the gift of the Holy Ghost, by the laying on of hands, is for—to prepare us that we may, through obedience, continue on and on, keeping the commandments of the Lord, until we shall receive the fulness in the celestial kingdom.  (In Conference Report, Apr. 1922, 60–61, quoted in Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith, Chapter 13 on Baptism)

 

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, InCognitus said:

You are right that baptism isn't an essential part of Terrestial or Telestial admission, or at least that's what it sounds like based on what Joseph Smith taught.

I posted these quotes in the "damned" thread (hmmm.... does that mean that thread has no progression? ), but it looks like I should have posted them here.  But I'm pretty sure this same question was raised both threads.

Here is the quote from Joseph Smith, and he's talking about being born again of water (water baptism) and of the Spirit:

  Quote

Every man lives for himself. Adam was made to open the way of the world, and for dressing the garden. Noah was born to save seed of everything, when the earth was washed of its wickedness by the flood; and the Son of God came into the world to redeem it from the fall. But except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. This eternal truth settles the question of all men's religion. A man may be saved, after the judgment, in the terrestrial kingdom, or in the telestial kingdom, but he can never see the celestial kingdom of God, without being born of water and the Spirit. He may receive a glory like unto the moon, [i.e., of which the light of the moon is typical], or a star, [i.e., of which the light of the stars is typical], but he can never come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels; to the general assembly and church of the Firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, unless he becomes as a little child, and is taught by the Spirit of God.  (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section One 1830–34, p.12, in The Joseph Smith Papers:  History, 1838–1856, volume A-1 [23 December 1805–30 August 1834])

And then there's this quote from Joseph Fielding Smith:

  Quote

Who, among Latter-day Saints, is seeking a place in the telestial kingdom? Who, among the Latter-day Saints, is seeking a place in the terrestrial kingdom? With those kingdoms we should want nothing to do; it is not the intention of the man who is baptized into the Church, or ought not to be, to so live that he will not find a place in the celestial kingdom of God; for baptism, itself, is the way into that kingdom. Baptism is of two-fold nature; primarily for the remission of sins, and then, entrance into the kingdom of God, not the telestial kingdom, not into the terrestrial kingdom, but entrance into the celestial kingdom, where God dwells. That is what baptism is for; that is what the gift of the Holy Ghost, by the laying on of hands, is for—to prepare us that we may, through obedience, continue on and on, keeping the commandments of the Lord, until we shall receive the fulness in the celestial kingdom.  (In Conference Report, Apr. 1922, 60–61, quoted in Teachings of the Presidents of the Church: Joseph Fielding Smith, Chapter 13 on Baptism)

 

The Book of Mormon’s presentation of the plan of salvation and the plan of salvation presented in the Doctrine & Covenants cannot at all be harmonized unless baptism by water is a requirement for entry into any of the post-resurrection kingdoms of glory. For years, LDS scholars and critics of the Church alike have been saying the plan of salvation found in the Doctrine & Covenants’ is a radical departure from the ‘one heaven one hell’ plan of salvation that’s found in the Book of Mormon. Both groups are incorrect and D&C 138 proves it.
 

Keep and open mind and read Section 138 very carefully and you’ll see what I mean. And as you read remember, Joseph F Smith’s primary reason for enquiring of the Lord was to understand why those who had rejected the authorized gospel message in Noah’s day were taught again the same gospel of forgiveness and salvation after being thrust down to hell. Why were these people being taught about the ordinances of the gospel if the ordinances  don't apply to them at all? 
 

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets (an obvious reference to those who, like those rebellious souls who were destroyed in Noah’s day, are cast into the spirit prison at death because they rejected the gospel message while in the flesh).

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, (D&C 138)

What you’re not taking into consideration with the quotes you provided is that Section 138 represents further light and knowledge beyond even what’s found in Section 76.

[InCognitus]

23 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

The Book of Mormon’s presentation of the plan of salvation and the plan of salvation presented in the Doctrine & Covenants cannot at all be harmonized unless baptism by water is a requirement for entry into any of the post-resurrection kingdoms of glory. For years, LDS scholars and critics of the Church alike have been saying the plan of salvation found in the Doctrine & Covenants’ is a radical departure from the ‘one heaven one hell’ plan of salvation that’s found in the Book of Mormon. Both groups are incorrect and D&C 138 proves it.
 

Keep and open mind and read Section 138 very carefully and you’ll see what I mean. And as you read remember, Joseph F Smith’s primary reason for enquiring of the Lord was to understand why those who had rejected the authorized gospel message in Noah’s day were taught again the same gospel of forgiveness and salvation after being thrust down to hell. Why were these people being taught about the ordinances of the gospel if the ordinances  don't apply to them at all? 
 

32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets (an obvious reference to those who, like those rebellious souls who were destroyed in Noah’s day, are cast into the spirit prison at death because they rejected the gospel message while in the flesh).

33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, (D&C 138)

What you’re not taking into consideration with the quotes you provided is that Section 138 represents further light and knowledge beyond even what’s found in Section 76.

First, I think there is more than one way to read the quotes I posted.

Second, I think there's more than one way to read the quotes you posted.   

To put it another way, I'm not trying to make a dogmatic assertion as to which position is right because I'm totally open to whatever God says is the right answer (when he makes this totally clear).  I'm just presenting relevant evidence that seems to point in one particular direction.

With regard to your quotes above, the fact that those who rejected the prophets in Noah's day were taught those principles doesn't really demonstrate that those ordinances were required for them to be admitted to the telestial or terrestrial kingdoms.   I don't think what Joseph Smith taught in the quote I provided is contradictory in any way to this revelation in its full context:

Quote

30 But behold, from among the righteous, he organized his forces and appointed messengers, clothed with power and authority, and commissioned them to go forth and carry the light of the gospel to them that were in darkness, even to all the spirits of men; and thus was the gospel preached to the dead.   31 And the chosen messengers went forth to declare the acceptable day of the Lord and proclaim liberty to the captives who were bound, even unto all who would repent of their sins and receive the gospel.  32 Thus was the gospel preached to those who had died in their sins, without a knowledge of the truth, or in transgression, having rejected the prophets.  33 These were taught faith in God, repentance from sin, vicarious baptism for the remission of sins, the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands,  34 And all other principles of the gospel that were necessary for them to know in order to qualify themselves that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.  35 And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross.  (Doctrine and Covenants 138:30–35)

This revelation says that these people needed to be taught those principles so that they might be "judged" the same way as men in the flesh, but it doesn't really say anything about them needing to receive those ordinances for the hereafter, and it is left open as to their specific judgment and to which kingdom they would be going.  I admit there could be different ways that this could be read.  But I think this is all necessary so that D&C 76:109-110 is possible:

Quote

109 But behold, and lo, we saw the glory and the inhabitants of the telestial world, that they were as innumerable as the stars in the firmament of heaven, or as the sand upon the seashore;  110 And heard the voice of the Lord saying: These all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess to him who sits upon the throne forever and ever;  (Doctrine and Covenants 76:109–110)

They are all affirming: "Yeah, redemption had indeed been wrought through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, upon the cross.  We were taught about that but we messed up."  They will know that their judgment is just.  
 

[Sunslight]

Section 138 puts to rest any notion that baptism isn't essential to redemption from hell. 

[JLHPROF]

57 minutes ago, Sunslight said:

Section 138 puts to rest any notion that baptism isn't essential to redemption from hell. 

I disagree.  I don't read it that way at all.

[Sunslight]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I disagree.  I don't read it that way at all.

Is it because you are trying to read it through the lens of section 76?

[InCognitus]

2 hours ago, Sunslight said:

Section 138 puts to rest any notion that baptism isn't essential to redemption from hell. 

I'm not finding anything in Section 138 that even hints at such a thing.  And what Joseph Smith taught in the quote I provided above indicates otherwise.  If you are implying that to be "saved" in any of the kingdoms requires the Mark 16:16 formula (as found in many places in the scriptures), then I would point out that there are many aspects to the word "saved" (resurrection made possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ "saves" us from death [hell] unconditionally, for example), and the statement from Joseph Smith that I quoted above seems to contradict your view and it post-dates the Mark 16:16 formula.  So that would not be the way that Joseph Smith understood it.  

[teddyaware]

47 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I'm not finding anything in Section 138 that even hints at such a thing.  And what Joseph Smith taught in the quote I provided above indicates otherwise.  If you are implying that to be "saved" in any of the kingdoms requires the Mark 16:16 formula (as found in many places in the scriptures), then I would point out that there are many aspects to the word "saved" (resurrection made possible through the atonement of Jesus Christ "saves" us from death [hell] unconditionally, for example), and the statement from Joseph Smith that I quoted above seems to contradict your view and it post-dates the Mark 16:16 formula.  So that would not be the way that Joseph Smith understood it.  

Then please explain why D&C 138 testifies that the wicked in the spirit prison, including those who were condemned and sent there because they rejected the redemptive preaching of the prophets while in the flesh, such as the rebellious people of Noah’s day, are taught faith in Christ, repentance from sin, vicarious water baptism for the remission of sins and the bestowal of the gift of the Holy Ghost by missionaries who are sent from paradise to the spirit prison to minister to those dwelling in darkness who had previously rejected the gospel message?  Are you suggesting such people are taught about the first principles and ordinances of the gospel even though those principles and ordinances don’t apply to them? Why teach people about a higher way of being if they have forever lost the opportunity  to walk in that higher way of being? Perhaps it’s to teach them a good lesson by rubbing their faces in their own failure?

Edited February 2, 2020 by teddyaware