Woman Who Disruprted General Conference Goes to Trial

[smac97]

Here:

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Crystal Legionaires, who disrupted a session of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ General Conference by shouting “stop protecting sexual predators,” has been convicted on a charge of disrupting a meeting.

The verdict came after a bench trial Monday in Salt Lake City’s Justice Court, where a judge heard and decided the case. Salt Lake City prosecutors originally charged a misdemeanor, but reduced it ahead of Monday’s trial so it had no potential for jail time.

“I don’t think that your message is wrong. I think your timing and your place is inappropriate and also is in violation of the law,” Judge Sydney Magid told Legionaires.

Well, yes.  That seems reasonable.

Quote

The case pit the right to protest against the right to worship. Legionaires, 25, admitted to the outburst. But Legionaires (who uses “they/them” pronouns) said they were calling attention to a problem within the faith.

“This was my thought, my hope, my prayer that maybe I could do something,” Legionaires told reporters outside of court.

Well, no.  These rights are not in conflict.  She undoubtedly has the right to protest, just not in a way that disrupts a lawful meeting or gathering.

Also, it's disappointing to see media defer to absurd pronouns.  

The statute in question is Utah Code sec. 76-9-103 ("Disrupting a meeting or procession"):

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(1)    A person is guilty of disrupting a meeting or procession if, intending to prevent or disrupt a lawful meeting, procession, or gathering, he obstructs or interferes with the meeting, procession, or gathering by physical action, verbal utterance, or any other means.

(2)    Disrupting a meeting or procession is a class B misdemeanor.

Back to the article:

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During the March 31, 2018 session of General Conference, Legionaires shouted “stop protecting sexual predators” repeatedly as President Dallin H. Oaks, the first counselor in the Church’s First Presidency, was inviting newly-called members of the faith’s leadership to take their seats on the rostrum.

The comments could be heard in the worldwide broadcast. Legionaires was promptly escorted from the building.
...
Richard Steadman, who interviewed Legionaires on a podcast, testified that Legionaires said they knew what they were doing and had researched it in advance.

“I needed to say what I thought I needed to say because there were so many individuals who are hurting,” Legionaires said, testifying in their own defense.

Legionaires said they had a family member who was abused and accused church leaders of doing nothing about it. Under some tense cross-examination, Legionaires said it was their first time protesting the Latter-day Saint church.

“That had been my first time ever doing such a thing,” they testified.

“But you’ve done it since, right?” Salt Lake City prosecutor Paige Williamson asked.

“I did do it since after so many years of conference where I go and see another queer person has killed themselves because they are told that they are evil,” Legionaires replied.

“Your honor, I move to strike,” Williamson said, cutting Legionaires off. “Nonresponsive.”

This is pretty standard stuff in a trial like this.

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Defense attorney Greg Skordas argued that Legionaires’ outburst didn’t disrupt anything. While some may have been startled, the meeting didn’t stop.

“There’s no disruption of the events. I know the one witness says, ‘Well, it disrupted the spirit,’ but that’s not what the law implies,” he told the judge.

Oh, Greg.  Gimme a break.

Quote

Williamson argued it did infringe upon Latter-day Saint faithful’s First Amendment religious freedom rights.

“The defendant substituted their interests for those trying to worship,” she said.

Judge Magid did express some sympathy for the content of Legionaires’ shouts, but still found it broke the law. She sentenced Legionaires to a $340 fine, probation and trespassed her from Temple Square for a year.

That seems proportionate.

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Legionaires paid the fine just after being convicted, having crowdsourced money for a legal defense. Speaking to reporters, Legionaires said they had no intention of launching a similar protest during General Conference and has urged others not to do it.

“I also wanted to not make conference next place where everyone interrupts just for the lols. I wanted it to be a specific instance, a specific part,” Legionaires said, arguing it was necessary.

I'm glad she said this.

This seems like a good resolution.  Legionaires had her say, was nominally punished for going about it in the wrong way, and is encouraging others not to replicate her behavior.  The Church's rights were preserved, the rule of law upheld.

A win all around.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JAHS]

Does she really think that the church leaders and members are not aware of this issue and are doing nothing about it? Whenever some kind of abuse happens the media is quick to jump on it and make sure everyone knows it was a Mormon who did it.  Such members are put under disciplinary action and are urged to turn themselves in to authorities as part of the repentance process. This of course is all related to the issue of whether or not Bishops should report such things heard in a confession. 

[provoman]

36 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Does she really think that the church leaders and members are not aware of this issue and are doing nothing about it? 

I believe this protest occurred not too long after a lawsuit was filed alleging that the Church covered up knowledge that someone in a position of authority was a sexual predator.  So I would say yes the person really thought Leaders and members are not aware.

[Anonymous Mormon]

(Comment Deleted - My previous comment was not Christ-like)

Edited January 14, 2020 by Anonymous Mormon

[rpn]

My question is how did this case take 20 months to resolve?

[longview]

1 hour ago, rpn said:

My question is how did this case take 20 months to resolve?

Legal priestcraft knows no bounds.

[Anijen]

Yup, time, place, and manner restrictions will govern.

Westboro Baptist Church can scream at funerals and protests all they like, but they have a designated place (or distance) they have to follow. Nauvoo Pageant protests can protest, but also in a designated place. Here, in the present case, the inside of the Conference is not the designated place. 

[JAHS]

From the Deseret News

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"Legionaires testified the planned outburst was intended to make a point, but did not intend to disrupt the Saturday afternoon session "

Of course she intended to disrupt it.

Quote

 

As the newly called leadership were taking their place on the podium, "Prosecutor Paige Williamson argued it was an important, spiritual moment for those assuming new posts and for church members who were taking in the significance of the new leadership.

“This was a life-changing moment for them,” Williamson said.

Defense attorney Greg Skordas noted his client cooperated with security. Legionaire’s conduct didn’t knock the ceremony off course, he argued, saying it was only as disruptive as a baby crying or a cellphone going off.

But a phone ringing or a baby crying isn’t intentional, the judge countered."

 

So right he is.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, rpn said:

My question is how did this case take 20 months to resolve?

Sounds quite normal to me, although "justice delayed is justice denied."

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Anijen said:

Yup, time, place, and manner restrictions will govern.

Westboro Baptist Church can scream at funerals and protests all they like, but they have a designated place (or distance) they have to follow. Nauvoo Pageant protests can protest, but also in a designated place. Here, in the present case, the inside of the Conference is not the designated place. 

When I have gone to Conference, I usually see protesters outside, and that seems appropriate to me.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

(Comment Deleted - My previous comment was not Christ-like)

What if some guy came into a church meeting with a cat-o-nine-tails and began beating worshipers, calling out "You have made my Father's house a den of thieves!"  Would that be Christlike?

[strappinglad]

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What if some guy came into a church meeting with a cat-o-nine-tails and began beating worshipers, calling out "You have made my Father's house a den of thieves!"  Would that be Christlike?

We get those types in the " outer courtyard" a lot. ( so far just verbal beatings . ) 

[InCognitus]

6 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

(Comment Deleted - My previous comment was not Christ-like)

That's kind of how I envision our final judgment, when we watch our life story on an IMAX 3-D screen, and there are bunch of "Scene Deleted" portions of the film in places where we repented and received forgiveness for things we did wrong in our life.  (At least we will get to see lots of film time of our life up through our 8th birthday)

[Scott Lloyd]

Quote

 

Defense attorney Greg Skordas noted his client cooperated with security. Legionaire’s conduct didn’t knock the ceremony off course, he argued, saying it was only as disruptive as a baby crying or a cellphone going off.

But a phone ringing or a baby crying isn’t intentional, the judge countered."

 

Skordas is doing some heavy-duty rationalizing here. A babe in arms would not have been admitted to the conference session. Neither would a toddler. And a cell phone going off would not have been nearly this disruptive. Her yelling reverberated through the immensity of the Conference Center and went out over the broadcast. Obviously, the intent is to prevent disruptions.

Quote

 

 Speaking to reporters, Legionaires said they had no intention of launching a similar protest during General Conference and has urged others not to do it.

“I also wanted to not make conference next place where everyone interrupts just for the lols. I wanted it to be a specific instance, a specific part,” Legionaires said, arguing it was necessary.

 

Even so, I wish there had been provision made to enforce that, perhaps a jail sentence suspended on condition that the behavior not be repeated. 

[Scott Lloyd]

Unless Skordas handled this case pro bono or gave the defendant a generous discount, I'm guessing it cost her more to hire the attorney than it did to pay the fine. But maybe she crowd-sourced that as well.

With crowd-sourcing, I submit that a sentence such as this has little-to-no punitive effect. In a de facto sense, the punishment does not fit the crime in this instance.

 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Kenngo1969]

11 hours ago, smac97 said:

This seems like a good resolution.  Legionaires had her their say, was nominally punished for going about it in the wrong way, and is encouraging others not to replicate her their behavior.  The Church's rights were preserved, the rule of law upheld.

A win all around.

Thanks,

-Smac

There!  All, um, fixed ... or something.

[smac97]

7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Unless Skordas handled this case pro bono or gave the defendant a generous discount, I'm guessing it cost her more to hire the attorney than it did to pay the fine. But maybe she crowd-sourced that as well.

Looks like she raised $3,950 in her "Legal Defense Fund."

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With crowd-sourcing, I submit that a sentence such as this has little-to-no punitive effect. In a de facto sense, the punishment does not fit the crime in this instance.

I dunno.  The crime was fairly minimal.  And her publicly discouraging others to emulate her behavior goes a long way with me.

Also, she's no longer a member of the Church, having resigned 5 1/2 years ago (see here).

Also, she states she has "Multiple Personality Disorder."

Her FB video is a grab-bag of popular gripes.  Oi.  Perpetual outrage wears out its welcome rather quickly.

Also, she is a biological male.  So he apparently has gender dysphoria and multiple personality disorder, and he's neck-deep in outrage culture.  I feel sorry for him.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited January 14, 2020 by smac97

[longview]

45 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Also, she's no longer a member of the Church, having resigned 5 1/2 years ago (see here).

Facebook does not have it anymore.  It says it may have been removed (does not say who).  Might have been prudent to get a "screen grab" and save it independently?  Facebook has a strong bias to favoring and protecting leftist propaganda.

48 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Also, she is a biological male.  So he apparently has gender dysphoria and multiple personality disorder, and he's neck-deep in outrage culture.  I feel sorry for him.

The "outrage culture" reminds me of the tactics of PC speech "warriors" where they frequently stand in college lecture halls to shout down conservative speakers who have been invited to make their presentation.  "You have to do it OUR way or Antifa thugs will beat you up"  Crystal stood up to shame the church (baselessly of course).

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Looks like she raised $3,950 in her "Legal Defense Fund."

I dunno.  The crime was fairly minimal.  And her publicly discouraging others to emulate her behavior goes a long way with me.

Also, she's no longer a member of the Church, having resigned 5 1/2 years ago (see here).

Also, she states she has "Multiple Personality Disorder."

Her FB video is a grab-bag of popular gripes.  Oi.  Perpetual outrage wears out its welcome rather quickly.

Also, she is a biological male.  So he apparently has gender dysphoria and multiple personality disorder, and he's neck-deep in outrage culture.  I feel sorry for him.

Thanks,

-Smac

That would explain the initial confusion over whether he was male or female (see the 2018 thread). 

Edited January 14, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[smac97]

18 minutes ago, longview said:

Facebook does not have it anymore.  It says it may have been removed (does not say who). 

The video is still there.  She posted it 16 hours ago, and I can still see it now.

18 minutes ago, longview said:

Might have been prudent to get a "screen grab" and save it independently?  Facebook has a strong bias to favoring and protecting leftist propaganda.

Nah.  What she has to say amounts to A) details about her personal life and B) a diatribe against the Church and Salt Lake City involving a mish-mash of various popular causes.  

This doesn't seem significant enough to try to preserve.

18 minutes ago, longview said:

The "outrage culture" reminds me of the tactics of PC speech "warriors" where they frequently stand in college lecture halls to shout down conservative speakers who have been invited to make their presentation.  "You have to do it OUR way or Antifa thugs will beat you up"  Crystal stood up to shame the church (baselessly of course).

Well, she did not resort to, or threaten, violence.  So we can credit her for that, at least.

Her behavior was inappropriate, but ultimately not that harmful.  And she is discouraging others from emulating her behavior.  I appreciate that.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, InCognitus said:

That's kind of how I envision our final judgment, when we watch our life story on an IMAX 3-D screen, and there are bunch of "Scene Deleted" portions of the film in places where we repented and received forgiveness for things we did wrong in our life.  (At least we will get to see lots of film time of our life up through our 8th birthday)

Nah. If forgiveness has been given, there will be no indication of the sins having ever been committed. “I the Lord will remember them no more.” It’s like the long-discredited analogy about the holes remaining in the board after the nails have been removed. 

[Anonymous Mormon]

10 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

What if some guy came into a church meeting with a cat-o-nine-tails and began beating worshipers, calling out "You have made my Father's house a den of thieves!"  Would that be Christlike?

The comment I deleted was a joke at Crystal Legionaires' expense and added no substantive value to the conversation. If I am honest with myself, I made my comment to get laughs and likes from people on an internet forum.

 

When Christ cleansed the temple, he was acting towards those which were under his priesthood stewardship (i.e., those in His house) and doing so in this manner:

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43 Reproving betimes with sharpness, when moved upon by the Holy Ghost

 

When I made my joke at an expense of someone I don't know but who I justified was my 'enemy' I was directly acting contrary to Christ's teachings here:

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“Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”—Matthew 5:44 

 

And I was failing to follow the good example of some in the book of Mormon:

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Some were lifted up in pride, and others were exceedingly humble; some did return railing for railing, while others would receive railing and persecution and all manner of afflictions, and would not turn and revile again, but were humble and penitent before God

 

I have seen lots of bad behavior excused by the story of Christ cleansing the temple, even though the behavior in question was not the same thing at all.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, InCognitus said:

That's kind of how I envision our final judgment, when we watch our life story on an IMAX 3-D screen, and there are bunch of "Scene Deleted" portions of the film in places where we repented and received forgiveness for things we did wrong in our life.  (At least we will get to see lots of film time of our life up through our 8th birthday)

That sounds like an incredibly tedious method of judgment.

”It looks like you turned in your sleep again. Luckily that is morally neutral. Maybe in about six hours something will happen when you get up.”

”Can we please fast forward a little bit?!?”

[longview]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

2 hours ago, longview said:

Facebook does not have it anymore.  It says it may have been removed (does not say who). 

The video is still there.  She posted it 16 hours ago, and I can still see it now.

I tried the link again.  It appears I am being blocked (same message saying it may have been removed).  I tried FB search feature by cutting/pasting Crystal's "full" name and I was able to find HIS page.  So full of leftist derangement.  I have a suspicion that FB has marked me as being too strong of a conservative activist and defender and advocate (where I make frequent likes and postings).

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

..........................When Christ cleansed the temple, he was acting towards those which were under his priesthood stewardship (i.e., those in His house) and doing so in this manner:

..........................I have seen lots of bad behavior excused by the story of Christ cleansing the temple, even though the behavior in question was not the same thing at all.

I meant my comment to be taken ironically, not as a put down.