Church Closing Community Garden on its Land, Neighbors Upset

[smac97]

Here:

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The Outreach Community Garden covers 1.5 acres embedded inside an east Salt Lake City block, where neighbors have tended dozens of plots for 43 years, yielding food and building community on land long owned and watered by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

These plots soon will be covered with asphalt to accommodate parking under a plan to expand the territory served by the church’s 33rd Ward building, 453 S. 1100 East, immediately southwest of the garden. The pending move has stunned many neighbors who believe the church can meet its needs without sacrificing a community asset that holds a rich history and connects directly to the faith’s agricultural heritage.

Not sure that this is "a community asset."  The land belongs to the Church.

Nevertheless, long-held sentimentalities are understandable.

Here's an overhead map of the garden's location.

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"This has been a part of our lives for almost as long as we've been here. One thing that's been disappointing about this process is the way that it has just happened out of nowhere," said gardener and neighbor Christy Porucznik. "One day we essentially got an eviction notice."

Last month, a notice was posted on the gate, informing gardeners that they had until Dec. 31 to remove “personal and community property" from the parcel between 1100 East and 1200 East.  Driving the need for additional parking is the consolidation of three east-side Latter-day Saint wards, or congregations, into the 33rd Ward, according to Patrick Risk, a church planning official who met with residents Thursday night at a meeting of the East Central Community Council.

An eviction notice pertaining to land you do not own, nor even rent.

And the Church did give notice.  Three months' worth, it seems.  And the Church also had a meeting with the local residents.

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The church’s membership in Utah’s capital is dwindling, forcing it to combine wards in the very city where the religion took root in the West and blossomed for the past 172 years. Accordingly, the historic University and Douglas wards, each with about 350 members, will now use the 33rd Ward building at staggered meeting times.

“With that, obviously, there’s a need for parking, which is always a challenge in the downtown area,” Risk told the standing-room-only crowd at Judge Memorial High School’s library. “And some of our meetinghouses were designed back when there was only one ward and a lot of people could walk. But now that you’re having three wards attend the building, that encompasses a broader area.”

This is a fair point.

Also, it's sort of weird to see the members of the Church empty out of Salt Lake.  Ah, well.

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The church originally indicated it needed 170 parking stalls, then lowered the number to 150, according to gardeners, who suspected the church was using a formula that failed to account for the historic and walkable nature of Salt Lake City’s University district. On Thursday, however, Risk said the building could get by with 117 stalls, including the 60 already there.

So the Church let locals use its land for decades, for free.  Then, in response to complaints about converting the land to parking, significantly reduced the number of parking stalls to be added.

And yet...

Quote

That’s still far more than Salt Lake City ordinances require for an institutional building the size of the 33rd Ward’s building, according to gardener Jeff Barrett, a father of two young children who has worked the garden for nine years.

“We don’t need parking in town. We should be removing parking, not adding. That’s where the city is,” Barrett said. “Why don’t you bring in a third ward, put a pause on the parking lot, and let’s see how it goes? That’ll give us more time to talk about alternatives and parking sharing. ... It might tell us we need 10 more spots, but 90?”

This seems fairly presumptuous.

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At Thursday’s meeting, residents suggested the church reconfigure the existing lot to accommodate more cars and expand onto the lawn behind the meetinghouse; reserve parking places for the elderly, encouraging others to walk or ride transit; and use the Rice-Eccles Stadium parking lot two blocks away.

“We have a lot of people, we have a lot of ideas and a lot of ways that maybe we can create a win-win situation that works both [for the garden] and the consolidation, which we’re very pleased with, lowering footprints, bringing people together,” said community council chairwoman Esther Hunter, who moderated Thursday’s discussion with an eye toward keeping the dialogue civil. She noted the church’s generosity over the years to support the garden.

“It would be remiss to not be completely grateful for that,” she said. “At the same time, people are very anxious about the garden itself and hoping that we can find some way to solve it.”

I appreciate Ms. Hunter's efforts.

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At times, some residents rankled at Risk’s explanation for greatly expanded parking and argued the church promotes driving by overbuilding parking at the expense of the livability of neighborhoods. Hunter insisted residents submit comments and questions in writing, rather than lobbing them at Risk.

“It seems counter to the teachings and principles of the LDS Church to remove a community garden solely for the benefit of cars. This is very backward thinking,” Hunter said, reading from one person’s comment card. “A garden fosters community, well-being of humans and all occupants of the area, clean air, healthy food and so much more. Cars do none of these things. We would hope the congregation would be encouraged to carpool, to walk for better health or cleaner air. This is a very stressful time in our culture. Your garden is the answer.”

After the applause abated, Risk said the church could not “dictate” that its members walk or carpool.

“The church dictates other aspects of its members’ lives,” quipped one audience member, eliciting a glare from Hunter.

What a classy guy.  Not only does the quipper want perpetual free use of the Church's land, he also feels at liberty to disparage the Church while presenting such expectations.

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In their Oct. 14 notice, church officials said the faith bought the land to “prepare for the future expansion needs of the wards and members that would be using the church property for religious services.”

The land has been in church possession since well before 1968, when Calvin Tolman moved into the neighborhood. Back then, it was used as a ballfield, but that got shut down after too many home runs left windows broken at homes along 1200 East, recalled Tolman, who served as the 33rd Ward’s bishop from 1995 to 2000.

The seeds for the garden were sown in an address then-LDS Church President Spencer W. Kimball gave at General Conference in 1976, encouraging members to garden.

And some excerpts from the comments (this is the Trib, after all):

Quote

• Church to kids: Sorry, kids, but there's nothing to be done. Plans have been made to replace your beautiful garden with a parking lot, so we can, you know, park more cars! 
• LOL! LSD Leaders could care less about your garden. A parking garage will bring in more people who donate more $$$$$$ 
• Mixing mormons and gentiles is frowned upon.. "agents of Satan" tend to corrupt the kiddos. 
• Any $uc$$e$$ful corporation need$ to have ample parking for it$ cu$tomer$, ju$t look at it like a good busine$$ deci$ion. 
• This isn't a church, it's a corporation complete with a hedge fund, luxury highrises, and shopping centers. 
• "We hate you and will lob every cheap-shot criticism at you,.... oh and by the way you should keep giving everybody a free spot to garden!!!" While I wish the church would preserve the garden, it is richly ironic that people here bash the church in one breath, but demand generosity from it in the next, and offer little or no gratitude for the 43 years of open public use. 

I understand and appreciate the sentiments of the locals.  But they have benefitted from the generosity of the Church for decades.  It is disappointing to see such disrespect/ingratitude/vitriol directed at it.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 24, 2019 by smac97

[Metis_LDS]

Well just a question.  Has anyone seen any group not be angry when something of many years is taken away free or not?

[strappinglad]

Here is a solution. Leave the gardens as is but charge enough rent every year to maintain several buses, at least one of which is handicap accessible , so the members can ride a bus to church. They should be electric busses also. Win-win except the rent will be well over 50,000 per year. 

[ksfisher]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Also, it's sort of weird to see the members of the Church empty out of Salt Lake.  Ah, well.

I think a large part of this is due to rising housing prices.  It's cheaper to buy a first home in the south end of the valley or north in Davis county compared to Salt Lake City proper.

[ksfisher]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

And some excerpts from the comments (this is the Trib, after all):

The comments section on church related stories in the Trip is always a font of wisdom and a shinning example of how to conduct civil dialogue in the 21st century that we can but strive to emulate.

Edited November 24, 2019 by ksfisher

[pogi]

We had the exact same thing happen in my old Draper ward when we lived in some apartments on the west side.  Large plot of land was used by the church for a community garden.    It was awesome!  Every year we could go harvest whatever we wanted - tomatoes, peppers, squash, melons, carrots, potatoes, etc.  It was all 100% free.  Wards would take turns weeding every month, but other than that it was labor free too!  I’m not sure who planted it and maintained it.  I think they hired Hispanics to do that because we would see them working the garden every Sunday 😀

They also turned it into a parking lot.  We were really sad to see it go (who wouldn’t be sad to have delicious free produce go) but I couldn’t believe how good the church was to provide it in the first place.  I was actually really surprised at how few people utilized it.  Every year there were piles and piles of unused produce that they would compost and mix back in the soil for next season.

 

[The Mean Farmer]

I'm surprised the same people aren't complaining that people park all over the streets on each Sunday morning and clog up their roads.

[The Nehor]

18 minutes ago, The Mean Farmer said:

I'm surprised the same people aren't complaining that people park all over the streets on each Sunday morning and clog up their roads.

How do you know they don’t?

[Storm Rider]

It would appear that these fine critics of the Church only tolerate it when they are directly benefited by having a free plot to plant a garden. I like the suggestion above that proposed renting the land to them in exchange for electric buses sufficient to pick up all the members that would need the service due to lack of new, additional parking.  If they raise the money then it is a done deal and without the money they can keep their charitable criticism and find another plot for their garden. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Storm Rider

[Calm]

They could always do valet parking with the priests and young women as a service project or the gardeners themselves could provide the service.  Rent for the gardens could then just cover additional insurance needed for the cars and drivers.

My concern with parking a couple of blocks away would be primarily the colder and hotter months as well as families with younger children.  Families with babies means they likely have to use a stroller, one more thing to worry about when already having to drag around other supplies.

Is Rice-Eccles Stadium free and guaranteed to have parking available on Sunday?  Might a trade show take up parking?  How close does Transit bring them?  How much would it cost if they were not regular users (such as the youth who would not use it for employment)?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Calm

[strappinglad]

From looking at the map , it is really a tight configuration . One narrow entry will make for congestion .If they used  most of the lawn and about a third of the garden space there would be room for about 60 more spots but that doesn't ease the in and out problem. This building is really in a bad place for smooth traffic flow. 

[longview]

10 hours ago, strappinglad said:

From looking at the map , it is really a tight configuration . One narrow entry will make for congestion .If they used  most of the lawn and about a third of the garden space there would be room for about 60 more spots but that doesn't ease the in and out problem. This building is really in a bad place for smooth traffic flow. 

Two possible solutions:

1. mandatory car/van pooling to optimize parking spots (and maybe a number of side street spots reserved for Sunday parking).
2. parking structure (4 levels).  As this location is a hop away from the U of U Campus, the Church could earn revenue from students and others Monday thru Saturday).

[smac97]

10 hours ago, strappinglad said:

From looking at the map , it is really a tight configuration . One narrow entry will make for congestion .If they used  most of the lawn and about a third of the garden space there would be room for about 60 more spots but that doesn't ease the in and out problem. This building is really in a bad place for smooth traffic flow. 

The Church could purchase one of the homes on 400 South or 1200 East that are adjacent to the backlot/gardenlot, and then demolish the home and use the space as an alternative means of ingress/egress to the north or to the east.

EDIT: Also, there is a road from 400 S called "Elizabeth Street."  It's narrow, but it looks like a public street that abuts the garden area.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 25, 2019 by smac97

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, longview said:

Two possible solutions:

1. mandatory car/van pooling to optimize parking spots (and maybe a number of side street spots reserved for Sunday parking).
2. parking structure (4 levels).  As this location is a hop away from the U of U Campus, the Church could earn revenue from students and others Monday thru Saturday).

1.  How can the Church reserve parking spots on public side streets?

2.  We had a parking lot next to a university and students and faculty were required to get permits, but paid no fee.  Would it be legal to charge a fee and if so, what requirements might be required?  Is parking that tight at the UoU that some would pay fees at this distance?

Would the community want a four level parking structure in their neighbourhood?

I can imagine it requiring tons more time to get the structure approved and built, years probably, when the need is now...plus where are they supposed to park while it is being built?

Edited November 25, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

How many wards currently meet there and how much overlap, if any, is there?

I assume the Church is likely projecting numbers based on other buildings and wards in the area.

I remember trying to find parking for a funeral in one of the older wards near the University a few years back. I shudder to think what the lot would have been like on a Sunday. I hate trying to find parking in many areas of SL. Using transit is not an option for my family (health issues).

[ksfisher]

38 minutes ago, longview said:

mandatory car/van pooling to optimize parking spots

Who would enforce this?  Would the bishop give out tickets to members who drive alone?

 

38 minutes ago, longview said:

(and maybe a number of side street spots reserved for Sunday parking).

Parking on public streets is public parking.  The church has no legal ability to reserve parking on public streets for it's own use.

Edited November 25, 2019 by ksfisher

[longview]

24 minutes ago, Calm said:

1.  How can the Church reserve parking spots on public side streets?

2.  We had a parking lot next to a university and students and faculty were required to get permits, but paid no fee.  Would it be legal to charge a fee and if so, what requirements might be required?  Is parking that tight at the UoU that some would pay fees at this distance?

Would the community want a four level parking structure in their neighbourhood?

I can imagine it requiring tons more time to get the structure approved and built, years probably, when the need is now...plus where are they supposed to park while it is being built?

1.  My wife and I vacationed in Manitou Springs, CO last summer.  There were many spots around town dedicated for the use of adjacent businesses, such as bed/breakfast converted homes (permits are displayed on the windshields).  There are also special covenant side streets around Denver that depend on time of day/day of week, etc.

2. This structure would be independent of the University.  It would depend on market surveys to gauge the convenience for students and any other workplaces or strip malls.

3.  Another solution is to build a new ward/stake house nearby.  When it is done, tear down the old ward house and convert to parking garage.  Or expand the community garden!

28 minutes ago, Calm said:

How many wards currently meet there and how much overlap, if any, is there?

I assume the Church is likely projecting numbers based on other buildings and wards in the area.

The change to the 2-hour block instead of 3 hours can have an enormous impact on the economy of high density areas.

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

I remember trying to find parking for a funeral in one of the older wards near the University a few years back. I shudder to think what the lot would have been like on a Sunday. I hate trying to find parking in many areas of SL. Using transit is not an option for my family (health issues).

May need to rely more and more on shuttle services.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, longview said:

Another solution is to build a new ward/stake house nearby.  When it is done, tear down the old ward house and convert to parking garage.  Or expand the community garden!

Isn’t the problem shortage of land?  

Buying new land to put up a new ward building when the current ward building is likely perfectly usable is a huge waste of money, imo.  Let the community buy their own land if they want it that badly. The Church has other obligations. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by Calm

[Thinking]

23 hours ago, smac97 said:

And some excerpts from the comments (this is the Trib, after all):

Methinks you quoted the Trib article because the Deseret News didn't report on this. Perhaps you should leave the Trib and its readers alone since the Deseret News was silent on the issue.

[smac97]

21 hours ago, Thinking said:

Methinks you quoted the Trib article because the Deseret News didn't report on this.

Methinks this story is only marginally newsworthy, if that.  

Quote

Perhaps you should leave the Trib and its readers alone since the Deseret News was silent on the issue.

Perhaps the Trib should focus on reporting the news, rather than on banal grievances against the Church.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 26, 2019 by smac97

[Thinking]

12 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Methinks this story is only marginally newsworthy, if that.

Yet it was newsworthy enough for you to post about it here.

[bluebell]

53 minutes ago, Thinking said:

Yet it was newsworthy enough for you to post about it here.

There are a lot of things that concern members of the church that aren't newsworthy though, right?  I don't think anyone on here thinks that creating a thread means the topic is newsworthy to the general population.

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, longview said:

1.  My wife and I vacationed in Manitou Springs, CO last summer.  There were many spots around town dedicated for the use of adjacent businesses, such as bed/breakfast converted homes (permits are displayed on the windshields).  There are also special covenant side streets around Denver that depend on time of day/day of week, etc.

2. This structure would be independent of the University.  It would depend on market surveys to gauge the convenience for students and any other workplaces or strip malls.

3.  Another solution is to build a new ward/stake house nearby.  When it is done, tear down the old ward house and convert to parking garage.  Or expand the community garden!

The change to the 2-hour block instead of 3 hours can have an enormous impact on the economy of high density areas.

May need to rely more and more on shuttle services.

The simplest solution would seem to be for the church to make use of land it already owns. 😉

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

 

Perhaps the Trib should focus on reporting the news, rather than banal grievances against the Church.

 

 

And throw out a business model that's brought in readers for the last 150 years?

[smac97]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

Yet it was newsworthy enough for you to post about it here.

I post news/opinion items about the Church here all the time, including ones that I think are not newsworthy.  See, e.g., here.  And here.  And here.  And here.  And here.

Thanks,

-Smac