Church Closing Community Garden on its Land, Neighbors Upset

[smac97]

4 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

And throw out a business model that's brought in readers for the last 150 years?

The Trib's coverage of Church-related news items, and its opinion pieces, are fairly hit and miss, with more of the latter than the former.

I have access to the Deseret News, the Provo Daily Herald, KSL, KUTV, and several other Utah-centric news outlets, in addition to the Trib.  The Trib's paywall gives me five article views per month per browser (5 in Chrome, 5 in Firefox, 5 in Edge).  That's pretty much always enough access to Trib's content for me.

Thanks,

-Smac

[ksfisher]

9 minutes ago, smac97 said:

The Trib's paywall gives me five article views per month per browser (5 in Chrome, 5 in Firefox, 5 in Edge).  That's pretty much always enough access to Trib's content for me.

If you use a "New Private Window" (Ctrl+Shift+P in Firefox) after you've used up your 5 you can get more.

[smac97]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

If you use a "New Private Window" (Ctrl+Shift+P in Firefox) after you've used up your 5 you can get more.

Huh.  Can I get another 5 views from Chrome's "Incognito" mode?

-Smac

[ksfisher]

32 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Huh.  Can I get another 5 views from Chrome's "Incognito" mode?

-Smac

Try it

[provoman]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Huh.  Can I get another 5 views from Chrome's "Incognito" mode?

-Smac

clear your cache/browser history/webcookies

[bluebell]

I can completely understand why the neighbors would be upset, but it seems a little entitled to be mad at the church for deciding to use their land to meet their own needs.

[Ahab]

On 11/24/2019 at 11:27 AM, smac97 said:

Here:

Not sure that this is "a community asset."  The land belongs to the Church.

Nevertheless, long-held sentimentalities are understandable.

Here's an overhead map of the garden's location.

An eviction notice pertaining to land you do not own, nor even rent.

And the Church did give notice.  Three months' worth, it seems.  And the Church also had a meeting with the local residents.

This is a fair point.

Also, it's sort of weird to see the members of the Church empty out of Salt Lake.  Ah, well.

So the Church let locals use its land for decades, for free.  Then, in response to complaints about converting the land to parking, significantly reduced the number of parking stalls to be added.

And yet...

This seems fairly presumptuous.

I appreciate Ms. Hunter's efforts.

What a classy guy.  Not only does the quipper want perpetual free use of the Church's land, he also feels at liberty to disparage the Church while presenting such expectations.

And some excerpts from the comments (this is the Trib, after all):

I understand and appreciate the sentiments of the locals.  But they have benefitted from the generosity of the Church for decades.  It is disappointing to see such disrespect/ingratitude/vitriol directed at it.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

Makes sense.  Sad to see something like this go away though.  We/the Church bought the land... 43 years ago, was it?... just in case we might want to use it later for something, and since we/the Church weren't using it we/the Church decided to let other people use it until we needed it.  Better than just letting it grow weeds and sit there empty, or used as a dump for people to dump some trash.  So they/the community around it used it for a garden, which was nice, and we/the Church were nice enough to not only let them/the community use it for a garden but we even paid for the water on that property which they/the community used to water the plants they/the community grew on that land that we/the Church let them use, 

But now we/the Church want to use it and they/the community is sad to see it go.  Understandable. I can even empathize with them a little bit about that.  I can imagine how nice it was that we allowed them to have a garden there for.... 43 years, was it? I'm sure it was nice.

[hoo rider]

Reminds me of why I hate lending things out.  People very easily become entitled.

[Amulek]

On 11/24/2019 at 1:27 PM, smac97 said:

Thoughts?

I can understand the disappointment. Forty-three years is a long time. There are likely families who have made it a tradition to tend the garden and have children who have participated in that activity throughout their entire natural lives. So it's completely understandable that there would be some sadness at having that come to an end. 

And I can understand reaching out to the church to see if they really need to make use of all of the land right away - seeking to maintain a bit of land undeveloped for gardening still if circumstances allow. Again, totally reasonable.

What I find unreasonable is the apparent desire to have the church go out of their way to accommodate those who don't even own/rent/lease the land. The church was extremely generous in allowing the use of it's property in this manner to begin with - not only by allowing them to plant a garden but by paying for the water as well. In many jurisdictions - especially those with quirky adverse possession laws - they would have simply enforced their property rights from day one and never let anyone use the land to begin with. End of story.

Instead, the church allowed use of the land for decades. And, when time came that they needed it for their own (wisely anticipated) use, they didn't simply roll in with heavy machinery unannounced and clear everything out - as was their right. No, they waited until the end of the season, posted notice to give people plenty of time to retrieve their belongings, and met with the community to give them an opportunity to express their feelings. And somehow, we're the bad guy in this story? Fascinating. 

 

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

and met with the community to give them an opportunity to express their feelings.

Ya, I thought it was strange that there was a community counsel to discuss how the church should use its own private property.  The fact that the church even showed up shows class. 

If my community wanted to gather to complain (instead of thank me graciously) after letting them use my own property for 43 years, the only reason I would have shown up would be to give them all the bird.  I don't have as much class. 

[Metis_LDS]

1 hour ago, Amulek said:

And somehow, we're the bad guy in this story? Fascinating. 

There always has to a bad guy,  details are not important in the process of deciding who is bad. It is a NEW and BOLD fact free world out there.

[smac97]

An update: LDS Church will spare a beloved Salt Lake City community garden

Quote

One of Salt Lake City’s oldest community gardens has won at least a partial reprieve from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints’ plans to pave the 1.5-acre field for a parking lot.

Those plans sparked fierce pushback from residents of the historic neighborhood near the University of Utah.

Church officials believe the 33rd Ward meetinghouse, which is home to three Latter-day Saint congregations under a recent reorganization, can get by with far fewer parking stalls than they originally anticipated, according to church spokeswoman Irene Caso.

"This adjustment will allow for more than half of the vacant lot to remain accessible to the neighborhood for gardening. The future parking requirements of the building will continue to be evaluated as needed," Caso said. "The church hopes this gardening tradition will continue for the foreseeable future, growing both produce and neighborhood relationships.”
...
The church’s flexibility elated Esther Hunter, chairwoman of Salt Lake City’s East Central Community Council, who helped mediate between gardeners and the church.

“They have been awesome. It has been rewarding. It has been a win-win, collaborative process,” Hunter said. “We are not done. There are a lot more things to discuss.”

Seems like a solid win-win result.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[RevTestament]

On 11/25/2019 at 1:41 PM, smac97 said:

The Trib's coverage of Church-related news items, and its opinion pieces, are fairly hit and miss, with more of the latter than the former.

I have access to the Deseret News, the Provo Daily Herald, KSL, KUTV, and several other Utah-centric news outlets, in addition to the Trib.  The Trib's paywall gives me five article views per month per browser (5 in Chrome, 5 in Firefox, 5 in Edge).  That's pretty much always enough access to Trib's content for me.

Thanks,

-Smac

In the event you need more, you can always use an additional browser, like the superior Vivaldi... 😀

[Stargazer]

On 11/24/2019 at 7:27 PM, smac97 said:

have benefitted from the generosity of the Church for decades.  It is disappointing to see such disrespect/ingratitude/vitriol directed at it.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

-Smac

It's called "Choosing Beggars".  As in beggars can't be choosers.  Apparently, these beggars want to choose.

Or, if I owned a house and raised my kids in it all their lives, and then, once they left, they felt like they could come back home and tell me what to do with my house.

[smac97]

6 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

It's called "Choosing Beggars".  As in beggars can't be choosers.  Apparently, these beggars want to choose.

Or, if I owned a house and raised my kids in it all their lives, and then, once they left, they felt like they could come back home and tell me what to do with my house.

I think some intemperate remarks were made.  But it seems like everyone has moved past that, made amends, and worked out a solution.  I'm glad of that.

Thanks,

-Smac

[strappinglad]

On 1/15/2020 at 7:10 AM, smac97 said:

Hunter said. “We are not done. There are a lot more things to discuss.”

IS this saying there  are more concessions to be had? Maybe there should be a year to year contract drawn up.