Could there there be more motives in Church polices and meetings?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

President Nelson is right when he speaks of the need that we take our vitamins, due to the many changes that are coming, and or yet to come. Even if his comment was in somewhat lite hearted way. The pace is dizzying to say the least, and I for one with my ever increasing medical issues, find that I am indeed unable to keep up. My daughter who received a new calling just a few weeks ago, was told by our Bishop, and her brother-In-law, not to get comfortable. When my wife showed up today, the Primary President, who thought we would be out of town, due to a recent funeral, had already gotten someone else to teach her Primary class, and told her today that she had already been told to completely reorganize the Primary.

Due to the fact that our Bishop is part of our extended family, he had already told my daughter that next Sunday, that we were having another Stake Conference, and that changes were coming once again. He did not say more, but despite the fact that my wife and I have not moved in over five years, we have already been in two Stakes, and four different Wards. So, it would seem that we might be in another Ward, yet again come next Sunday week. Again, as my health continues to decline, I feel jus too tired to deal with much more changes. I am indeed one of those odd creatures that loves Church, the sights, the sounds, the smell, the people, and the doctrines of the Gospel, although the Spirit is willing, the flesh is so, so, so, weak. 
 

I do however wonder why many changes are happening, and I am confused by some remarks at times. The Book of Mormon, along with the calling of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and all the Scripture that he both translated, and received himself. These things were supposed to bring about the “Fullness of the Gospel”, and the “Restoration of the Gospel”. Now, we are being told, “if we thought the Restoration was complete, we were mistaken”. I do understand the need for Modern Day Prophets to guide the Church, but some things do concern me. 
 

Until recently, is was very common, and expected to always hear the teachings, and commandments provided by the Prophet Joseph Smith, and to constantly be reminded of our rich history, and to embrace it always, to engage in activities for ourselves and for our youth, to remind us of our rich history and culture. We have always found a wonderful balance that allowed us to face the future, with wonderful Prophets and Apostles, while always remembering our rich and unique past. 

Maybe it is may age, but are we running faster than we are able. Or more to the point, are we running and changing so fast, that people like myself cannot keep up, and is that the goal. 

[CV75]

Yes, it is important to know the fundamentals of the Restoration, but even Joseph Smith said there would be more to be restored as well as a fulfillment of the many things that were prophesied yet to come (e.g. Aof 9, the spreading of Zion across the globe, the New Jerusalem, etc.). These fulfillments are part of the restoration.

I think sometimes one can wonder: how is a new thing a restoration? They also prepare us for the original order of things set up under Adam, and gathering in one all things as they were planned to be from the beginning (D&C 27:13; 121:31), The restoration includes the lost ability to reveal seemingly new things, but "new" only because they "have been kept hid from before the foundation of the world.(124:41)."

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Despite the fact that my wife and I have not moved in over five years, we have already been in two Stakes, and four different Wards.

What a wonderful sign of growth!

[Duncan]

Our ward has multiplied the meetings and it's STUPID. Granted though ward conference is now 3 hours instead of like 6, so that's good! I tell them it's ridiculous and they laugh but laughing doesn't reduce anything

[Prof]

As I read your thread, I wondered if my ward was in for some changes as well. We have an additional stake conference lined up next month. A member of the presidency of the seventy will preside. The day before there will be a meeting with all presidencies and will be presided by an Apostle. It looks to me like that meeting is multi stake. Thus, I'm wondering what's going on. Changing boundaries was my first thought. We'll see what happens.

I'm a lot like you in that I like church and am very comfortable with what I am familiar with. When I was in college, I was in a singles branch. I hated that. It just didn't look and feel like the Church.

[Hamba Tuhan]

28 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Granted though ward conference is now 3 hours instead of like 6, so that's good!

Ward conference takes place during the normal worship service. How on earth do you get it to last three hours (or six!)?

Quote

Our ward has multiplied the meetings and it's STUPID.

We have scaled back all of our meetings as directed. In fact, as instructed by our area presidency, we have implemented a window on Sundays when no Church organisation (stake or ward/branch) is allowed to have any kind of meeting. This allows for one one-hour meeting to be completed after the last church service ends and then allows for evening gatherings but nothing in between. That's for families and individuals to study, minister, rest, visit, enjoy being with each other, etc.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

25 minutes ago, Prof said:

I'm a lot like you in that I like church and am very comfortable with what I am familiar with.

Elder Bednar did tell us in our training meeting nearly five years ago that it would be American Saints who would struggle the most with coming changes because they're attached to the culture that's grown up around the Church there ...

Edited November 18, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[Duncan]

1 minute ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Ward conference takes place during the normal worship service. How on earth do you get it to last three hours (or six!)?

meetings before and after. So, like when I was a EQ Pres. In YSA 2000-2002, we had PEC, 3 hours of Church, a ward Council meeting that went over the exact same things as we did in PEC, then after that we went out with a Stake Presidency member and visited people-so at least 6 hours, and more if you had bishopric mtg. previous to PEC. So, now it's 2 hours of Church and if you are in Bishopric you had an hour mtg before and then after church it's a one on one meeting with your auxillary presidency member -so YW Pres. meets with Stake YW Presidency members

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, Duncan said:

meetings before and after.

We have one meeting before. It starts an hour before church and lasts 45 minutes. This includes a five-minute opening with all ward/stake leaders together followed by break-outs of 40 minutes for training. That's it. 

[Jane_Doe]

3 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I do however wonder why many changes are happening, and I am confused by some remarks at times. The Book of Mormon, along with the calling of the Prophet Joseph Smith, and all the Scripture that he both translated, and received himself. These things were supposed to bring about the “Fullness of the Gospel”, and the “Restoration of the Gospel”. Now, we are being told, “if we thought the Restoration was complete, we were mistaken”. I do understand the need for Modern Day Prophets to guide the Church, but some things do concern me. 

The Fullness of the Gospel is the Good News: Christ's birth, life, sacrifice, and resurrection.  That is indeed the focus of the Book of Mormon.

Restoration is the the restoration of Priesthood Power and that direct connection.

Neither are the "we know everything".  Rather, "AofF: 9 We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God."   (emphasis mine).  

 

[Avatar4321]

Ive read letters between Oliver C and David W about a second part to the restoration. I dont know if Joseph ever taught it but I dont think the restoration was never meant to end at Josephs death. 

I've had some revelations of my own recently. I wont go into details but the Lord has made it clear to me that things can and will change quickly.

[Traela]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Ward conference takes place during the normal worship service. How on earth do you get it to last three hours (or six!)?

We have scaled back all of our meetings as directed. In fact, as instructed by our area presidency, we have implemented a window on Sundays when no Church organisation (stake or ward/branch) is allowed to have any kind of meeting. This allows for one one-hour meeting to be completed after the last church service ends and then allows for evening gatherings but nothing in between. That's for families and individuals to study, minister, rest, visit, enjoy being with each other, etc.

Our stake has asked that all meetings be done by, I think, 4:00.  So everyone can go home to spend dinner and the evening with their families.

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Or more to the point, are we running and changing so fast, that people like myself cannot keep up, and is that the goal. 

Papa, why do you think Church leadership might want to leave people like you behind?  I get that it can feel that way and I suspect a lot of members, even healthy ones, are feeling disoriented by all the changes, especially if there are lots locally.  However, I can't think of myself why leadership would see that as a good thing.  Perhaps you could explain how it might actually be a goal and why?

[Prof]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Elder Bednar did tell us in our training meeting nearly five years ago that it would be American Saints who would struggle the most with coming changes because they're attached to the culture that's grown up around the Church there ...

He was right!

(He's a Purdue university grad, so we like him here in Indiana!)

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Traela said:

Our stake has asked that all meetings be done by, I think, 4:00.  So everyone can go home to spend dinner and the evening with their families.

Does that mean no firesides, cottage evenings, or bishopric youth discussions?

[Maestrophil]

I think this is the pace that is needed to keep up with the young people of the world today.  Millennials and younger are used to things happening really quick and information coming at an instant.  Perhaps in an effort to keep them interested and the church from seeming irrelevant to them, it needs to be quicker, and keep pace with the times?

 

[Duncan]

One thing that I find crazy is missionaries need fellowship at almost everything now, yet baptisms have tanked and retention has also tanked-i.e. if you do get someone else to go with you the result hasn't paid off so to speak. I don't get why the Church trusts the missionary to go out and serve but when they to get to the field they don't trust them to do anything without someone there.

[sunstoned]

Adapted or die.  I am glad that the leadership is connected enough to know that with the decreasing numbers of active members that adjustments need to be made.  To me this is inspiration.  The organization is being streamlined to function more efficiently. This is a good thing.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

24 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

... the decreasing numbers of active members ...

CFR

[The Nehor]

42 minutes ago, Duncan said:

One thing that I find crazy is missionaries need fellowship at almost everything now, yet baptisms have tanked and retention has also tanked-i.e. if you do get someone else to go with you the result hasn't paid off so to speak. I don't get why the Church trusts the missionary to go out and serve but when they to get to the field they don't trust them to do anything without someone there.

It is not a matter of trust; it is a matter of retention. Too many are baptized but no almost no one in the ward and quickly fall away. It is not babysitting.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Elder Bednar did tell us in our training meeting nearly five years ago that it would be American Saints who would struggle the most with coming changes because they're attached to the culture that's grown up around the Church there ...

Yeah, the murmuring has definitely gone up. I have had to stomp it out a few times in myself.

Edited November 18, 2019 by The Nehor

[sunstoned]

23 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

CFR

seriously? This is a nuisance CRF.  You know perfectly well the church is losing members. That is why they don't membership numbers anymore in conference.  Negative numbers are not faith promoting.

Edited November 18, 2019 by sunstoned

[Duncan]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is not a matter of trust; it is a matter of retention. Too many are baptized but no almost no one in the ward and quickly fall away. It is not babysitting.

I would agree to that but even with people in the ward knowing them they still fall away. It's almost like a drop kick into the deep end and if you can swim on your own with some guidance then great you'll stay otherwise you sink and people here are burned out and burned over. I think the attitude is what is the bare minimum I have to do for my calling so people who don't need much then I won't do much but people who aren't like that, rides, welfare needs, emotional problems etc. then they sink. So, the missionaries try to teach all these people but some get baptized but more go off and sink because the members aren't willing to help or are tied up in other stuff they have to do

[Hamba Tuhan]

10 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

This is a nuisance CRF.  You know perfectly well the church is losing members.

You stated specifically that the number of active members is decreasing. I know no such thing, and in fact, I see no evidence for it. You provided an image rather than actual links. Can you provide data from any of those links that support your claim?

[Hamba Tuhan]

23 minutes ago, Duncan said:

People here are burned out and burned over.

The quickest way to become burnt out in the Church is to be half in. It's precisely like riding a clutch: being only partially engaged causes unnecessary friction and wear.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan