Disapointment in Temple, how to get over?

[Garden Girl]

7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

The temple president needs to be told if the Celestial Room is too noisy.  That is just unacceptable.

Plus... there is a temple worker assigned to the Celestial Room and other areas of the temple at all times... If you are in the Celestial Room, or wherever, and it is too noisy, just step up to the worker and express your complaint... they should immediately remedy the situation in a polite, gentle way... that's why they are there!!  I'm actually surprised they apparently let this go on... our training specifically covers controlling noisy patrons.  Our weak spot was the lobby area... that's still the temple and "temple voices" should be used.  It's hard when it is a wedding party and everyone is joyful, but there are still those who come in to sit in the atrium in contemplation or prayer...   

GG

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The only thing I "pray for" is for a better attitude, and not to change the world to be the way I want it.  

It almost always helps me, at least.

We read this at the beginning of our Family Support meetings.

Quote

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. Living one day at a time; enjoying one moment at a time; accepting hardships as the pathway to peace; taking, as He did, this sinful world as it is, not as I would have it; trusting that He will make all things right if I surrender to His Will; that I may be reasonably happy in this life and supremely happy with Him forever in the next. Reinhold Niebhur

The temple helps me distinguish between the things I can and cannot change.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

9 hours ago, katherine the great said:

Hmmm. Not a bad idea. Try going to a Hindu or Buddhist temple or a masonic temple. Maybe a little comparison shopping will help you appreciate our temple more. 

I'm kidding (but it might be kinda fun). I don't have a good answer for you. I know people who absolutely love the temple and others who go more out of a sense of duty. Both types of people are faithful members but they just experience the temple differently. I think it may boil down to personality more than anything else. I'm a little surprised that your Celestial room is noisy though. I haven't come across that yet

Sister Gui and I toured my Northern New Mexico homeland last summer. We visited the old Spanish colonial cathedrals in Santa Fe, Taos, and Chimayo. We enjoy going into historic churches. We always maintain a reverent spirit and respect for other visitors in them even if we take photos (no flash) by sitting quietly and enjoying the beautiful architecture, religious art and icons, and feelings of sanctity in the room. Some visitors, however, are in full-out tourist mode, and there are often commercial enterprises attached to the building which ruin the atmosphere. I’m thankful for the quiet in our temples, even in the entrances. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Sister Gui and I toured my Northern New Mexico homeland last summer. We visited the old Spanish colonial cathedrals in Santa Fe, Taos, and Chimayo. We enjoy going into historic churches. We always maintain a reverent spirit and respect for other visitors in them even if we take photos, sitting quietly and enjoying the beautiful architecture, religious art and icons, and feelings of sanctity in the room. Some visitors, however, are in full-out tourist mode, and there are often commercial enterprises attached to the building which ruin the atmosphere. I’m thankful for the quiet in our temples, even in the entrances. 

I visited Norte Dame in Paris (this was in 2016, so it was a couple of years before the fire). I enjoyed very much the majesty of the edifice, and yes, I felt a sense of reverence. 
 

I bought a gargoyle as a souvenir, by I was glad it was sold at a gift shop across the street and not on the premises. 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[MustardSeed]

Ward temple night has always been too much of a social event for me really- celestial room gets pretty crazy so I just pass through.  

Also, one time a professional nemesis participated in a prayer that I would have otherwise participated in .  

One more- once I was sitting in the chapel waiting for a session and there was a loud chatty voice in the back.  Some old dame.  The workers harshly shushed her and I turned around to take a look and IT WAS MY GRANDMA- I was so happy to see her lol! Fun memory. 

As for your question- for me, I have adjusted my expectations.  Im much less disappointed that way. 😐

 

[Rain]

12 hours ago, Duncan said:

Not to get personal but how do you get over bad experiences in the Temple? I'm not talking about Demonic posession or running into someone from Calgary( 😣) but constant unanswered prayers, too noisy in Celestial room or other things like that? in other aspects of life if you have regular bad experiences as a grocery store you just shop elsewhere

I've had some bad experiences. My first time was the worst.

Another time I was desperate for answers to prayer and there were 2 women gossiping very loudly in the celestial room about their divorcing neighbors. I couldn't get far enough away to not hear them so I left. 

I think, like the Spirit speaks differently to different people, the temple and all of our other experiences speak differently to different people. I am far more likely to feel the Spirit and get answers to prayer when I am serving someone than when I am in the temple. Service fills me like I hear other people saying the temple fills them. I see the same thing in others as they talk about missionary work. 

So how do you get over bad experiences? Line upon line and recognize that your place to get answers may be somewhere else so you go to that place for answers  and just go to the temple as a service to those you are doing the work for. Little by little you will also feel  some light or peace in the temple as well, though it may take years or decades.  

[Rain]

11 hours ago, gregory_underscore said:

You know that story about dirty windows. Problem is you not them you get what you put in. 

There are a lot of people who have really studied, researched and prayed about which church they should join.  As far as I am aware only Joseph Smith had God and his Son appear in answer.

You can't just judge a person's window solely on what they experienced. Sometimes God just doesn't turn on the temple light to see through those windows because he has other individual plans for them.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Rain

[Hamba Tuhan]

I've only ever had one bad experience in the temple, and that was years ago, and in America, and definitely not appropriate for this forum ...

But yeah, was the person you were serving as proxy for disappointed too? Or just happy?

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Plus... there is a temple worker assigned to the Celestial Room and other areas of the temple at all times... If you are in the Celestial Room, or wherever, and it is too noisy, just step up to the worker and express your complaint... they should immediately remedy the situation in a polite, gentle way... that's why they are there!!  I'm actually surprised they apparently let this go on... our training specifically covers controlling noisy patrons.  Our weak spot was the lobby area... that's still the temple and "temple voices" should be used.  It's hard when it is a wedding party and everyone is joyful, but there are still those who come in to sit in the atrium in contemplation or prayer...   

GG

Speaking in a whisper to the offenders usually works:

"We are so overjoyed for Steve and Judy, it's hard to remember using our temple voices while thre are also those here deep in prayer!"

 

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

15 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I've only ever had one bad experience in the temple, and that was years ago, and in America,

Of course!

[Scott Lloyd]

7 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Speaking in a whisper to the offenders usually works:

"We are so overjoyed for Steve and Judy, it's hard to remember using our temple voices while thre are also those here deep in prayer!"

Of course I only recommend these exact words if the couple's name is Steve and Judy. Even then my personal preference would be Judy and Steve, but perhaps that's sexist.

If you are whispering, how can you be heard above the din of the infractors? Just sayin’.  

Edited September 30, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[Hamba Tuhan]

29 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Of course!

Salt Lake City, to be exact, but I wasn't going to go there. Oh man, I just remembered a second experience in that temple too! I must have suppressed it. They certainly seem to get some of the more 'interesting' workers ...

Edited September 30, 2019 by Hamba Tuhan

[mfbukowski]

3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Sister Gui and I toured my Northern New Mexico homeland last summer. We visited the old Spanish colonial cathedrals in Santa Fe, Taos, and Chimayo. We enjoy going into historic churches. We always maintain a reverent spirit and respect for other visitors in them even if we take photos, sitting quietly and enjoying the beautiful architecture, religious art and icons, and feelings of sanctity in the room. Some visitors, however, are in full-out tourist mode, and there are often commercial enterprises attached to the building which ruin the atmosphere. I’m thankful for the quiet in our temples, even in the entrances. 

...Which is one of the many reasons we do not allow the public through our temples.

I still have enough Catholic in me to be horrified at tourists in cathedrals.

If you see some kind of a candle holder hanging from the ceiling near the altar with a red candle glowing in it,  that means that the Eucharist is on the altar.

Treat that like a red light that says "Please be reverent Christ is physically in residence"

A Catholic would never cross the main aisle going down the center while that Candle is lit and not genuflect or at least bow before making the movement.

We should remember that that the whole Cathedral is the celestial room for Catholics. Both spaces are considered as being in "the presence of the Lord."

We should not treat it as if it is just a museum. It is someone else's Celestial room, and that they are kind enough to allow you to visit. You are their guests there and should act that way.

I have seen tourists in Europe walking around through a cathedral in the middle of high mass as if they are the only ones there.

It's just sad and ignorant behavior.

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

I remember some wonderful experiences of comfort and revelation among the many times I have attended, but no bad ones.

A close relative was uncomfortable in his/her first session, but that was resolved.

We discovered Sister Gui was pregnant when she fainted after standing up at the sealing altar. The officiator said that’s usually the cause, and it was. 

[mfbukowski]

17 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If you are whispering, how can you be heard above the infractors? Just sayin’.  

That's the whole point. You walk up right next to the offender, in his face if necessary, whispering, and he has to shut up in order to hear you.

It can be a rather aggressive way of being not "aggressive."

 

[Bernard Gui]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

...Which is one of the many reasons we do not allow the public through our temples.

I still have enough Catholic in me to be horrified at tourists in cathedrals.

If you see some kind of a candle holder hanging from the ceiling near the altar with a red candle glowing in it,  that means that the Eucharist is on the altar.

Treat that like a red light that says "Please be reverent Christ is physically in residence"

A Catholic would never cross the main aisle going down the center while that Candle is lit and not genuflect or at least bow before making the movement.

We should remember that that the whole Cathedral is the celestial room for Catholics.

We should not treat it as if it is just a museum. It is someone else's Celestial room, and that they are kind enough to allow you to visit. You are their guests there and should act that way.

I have seen tourists in Europe walking around through a cathedral in the middle of high mass as if they are the only ones there.

It's just sad and ignorant behavior.

 

I’ve never visited during mass or seen a red candle...I only go to Christmas Eve mass at the local Polish Catholic Church. The cathedrals we visited encouraged visitors.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Bernard Gui

[mfbukowski]

10 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I’ve never visited during mass or seen a red candle...I only go to Christmas Eve mass at the local Polish Catholic Church. The cathedrals we visited encouraged visitors.

I totally get that, done it many many times myself.

But just for educational value of nothing else notice that during mass that red candle will be lit.

There is a square box on the altar at the center where extra consecrated hosts are kept until the next Mass. Of course if the particular church is expected to have tourist visitors they usually remove those extra hosts.

But the candle is always lit while the Blessed Sacrament is there.

I am sure Miserere will verify that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary_lamp#In_Christian_tradition

 

Edited September 30, 2019 by mfbukowski
Added link

[HappyJackWagon]

18 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And especially the Matron.  Typically there are sisters stationed there to keep order - in a nice way of course. 

 

In my area the matrons rule the celestial room with an iron fist    You'd better not raise your voice, and they have other rules that must be kept as well.

Once, I was sitting on a sofa with my wife when a group of elderly women came in. Naturally I stood so one of the women could take my seat. I knelt on the floor next to my wife's seat so we could continue to hold hands and whisper about what a question from the endowment. A matron came over and told me to stand. She wasn't particularly nice about it but I stood because I thought she wanted to talk to me. But then she just walked away. I was confused so i went over and asked her why she had come across the room to ask me to stand. She told me...and I kid you not... that kneeling in the Celestial room wasn't permitted. She told me it gave the appearance of praying in a "grandstanding" kind of way. OK. Weird. Apparently you can only pray in the celestial room if you're sneaky about it. Not the greatest experience but chalked up to an overzealous matron trying to do her best.

[smac97]

56 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

In my area the matrons rule the celestial room with an iron fist    You'd better not raise your voice, and they have other rules that must be kept as well.

Once, I was sitting on a sofa with my wife when a group of elderly women came in. Naturally I stood so one of the women could take my seat. I knelt on the floor next to my wife's seat so we could continue to hold hands and whisper about what a question from the endowment. A matron came over and told me to stand. She wasn't particularly nice about it but I stood because I thought she wanted to talk to me. But then she just walked away. I was confused so i went over and asked her why she had come across the room to ask me to stand. She told me...and I kid you not... that kneeling in the Celestial room wasn't permitted. She told me it gave the appearance of praying in a "grandstanding" kind of way. OK. Weird. Apparently you can only pray in the celestial room if you're sneaky about it. Not the greatest experience but chalked up to an overzealous matron trying to do her best.

I had a similar experience (re: kneeling).  In the Provo Temple.

Thanks,

-Smac

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

In my area the matrons rule the celestial room with an iron fist    You'd better not raise your voice, and they have other rules that must be kept as well.

Once, I was sitting on a sofa with my wife when a group of elderly women came in. Naturally I stood so one of the women could take my seat. I knelt on the floor next to my wife's seat so we could continue to hold hands and whisper about what a question from the endowment. A matron came over and told me to stand. She wasn't particularly nice about it but I stood because I thought she wanted to talk to me. But then she just walked away. I was confused so i went over and asked her why she had come across the room to ask me to stand. She told me...and I kid you not... that kneeling in the Celestial room wasn't permitted. She told me it gave the appearance of praying in a "grandstanding" kind of way. OK. Weird. Apparently you can only pray in the celestial room if you're sneaky about it. Not the greatest experience but chalked up to an overzealous matron trying to do her best.

No actually that is a universal rule, seriously. No kneeling PRAYER in the C.R. That is straight from the temple Department.

And just a terminology thing, there are 3 Temple Matrons who are equivalent to the Presidency.

In leadership matters there are essentially two temples. There's the women's Temple and then there's the men's temple.  Sisters completely administer sisters.

Matrons are the mirrors of how everything is supposed to be.

Probably the sister who corrected you was an ordinance worker and not a matron.

Next time get their badge number.

No seriously, kind of.

If it's a Matron that will be on their name badge. Matrons run the complaint department for sister ordinance workers

Of course all of this is paralleled on the men's side.

Incidentally there are no longer any Veil workers. All the veil workers are now being trained in doing all the ordinances as well. Same with the receptionist position on the sisters side.

Edited September 30, 2019 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

13 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Plus... there is a temple worker assigned to the Celestial Room and other areas of the temple at all times... If you are in the Celestial Room, or wherever, and it is too noisy, just step up to the worker and express your complaint... they should immediately remedy the situation in a polite, gentle way... that's why they are there!!  I'm actually surprised they apparently let this go on... our training specifically covers controlling noisy patrons.  Our weak spot was the lobby area... that's still the temple and "temple voices" should be used.  It's hard when it is a wedding party and everyone is joyful, but there are still those who come in to sit in the atrium in contemplation or prayer...   

GG

Yes that becomes a kind of celestial room for some without a recommend working on a return, and what seems to be a public waiting room for others. So is very difficult. 

Yes some do come to that public area just to pray.

And then there are the gardens. Too much cheering for emerging newly married couples rings through the temple. 

But those are happy noises. They don't bother me but they do bother some.

Edited September 30, 2019 by mfbukowski

[HappyJackWagon]

24 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

No actually that is a universal rule, seriously. No kneeling PRAYER in the C.R. That is straight from the temple Department.

And just a terminology thing, there are 3 Temple Matrons who are equivalent to the Presidency.

In leadership matters there are essentially two temples. There's the women's Temple and then there's the men's temple.  Sisters completely administer sisters.

Matrons are the mirrors of how everything is supposed to be.

Probably the sister who corrected you was an ordinance worker and not a matron.

Next time get their badge number.

No seriously, kind of.

If it's a Matron that will be on their name badge. Matrons run the complaint department for sister ordinance workers

Of course all of this is paralleled on the men's side.

Incidentally there are no longer any Veil workers. All the veil workers are now being trained in doing all the ordinances as well. Same with the receptionist position on the sisters side.

Does the anti-kneeling rule in the Celestial Room seem strange to anyone else? Or is it just me who finds it odd?

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Does the anti-kneeling rule in the Celestial Room seem strange to anyone else? Or is it just me who finds it odd?

I don't get it either.

I asked around

 The unsubstantiated rumor is that it is because the robes are not supposed to to touch the ground

Again, just one popular theory

Edited October 1, 2019 by mfbukowski

[bluebell]

32 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Does the anti-kneeling rule in the Celestial Room seem strange to anyone else? Or is it just me who finds it odd?

I think they should make an exception if the person is obviously just kneeling down to talk to someone, but otherwise it doesn't seem that strange to me to make a rule against doing something that some people were starting to take too far. It's unfortunate that it had to come to that, but I don't think it's odd that such a rule became necessary.

[HappyJackWagon]

2 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I think they should make an exception if the person is obviously just kneeling down to talk to someone, but otherwise it doesn't seem that strange to me to make a rule against doing something that some people were starting to take too far. It's unfortunate that it had to come to that, but I don't think it's odd that such a rule became necessary.

Was something being taken too far? It's a little hard to imagine what could have been done to declare a universal temple ban on kneeling in the Celestial Room. Any examples? Stories?