HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Quote Beginning in 2020, the course of study for seminary will shift to an annual calendar and classes will study the same book of scripture used for the Come, Follow Me curriculum each year. Students will continue to attend seminary according to the academic calendar for the school system they attend. To assist in the transition, seminary classes will adjust their curriculum schedule to teach the first half of the New Testament, beginning June 2019 through the remainder of the calendar year. Making this change will enhance the home-centered, Church-supported approach to gospel study through a unified study at home, Sunday School, and seminary. We encourage all youth to fully participate in seminary as they seek to increase their love for Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and deepen their conversion to the restored gospel. https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/seminary-program-change-2020 Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? ETA- I find this line comical Quote “I love seminary,” said Elder Holland. “We can tell when a student has had seminary. We can almost see it in the light in their eyes.” By suggesting they can "almost" see a difference in the light in their eyes, are they really saying they can't actually see a light in their eyes? Sorry, just thought it was funny. Edited March 22, 2019 by HappyJackWagon 2
rockpond Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts about this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? I'm split on this. The past couple years I was in YM and it was frustrating to me that the lesson material I was given was often similar to what had been taught to them the previous hour in Sunday School. They would often indicate that they had "just read this", "just talked about this", or "just watched this". I quickly learned to never use the church videos because they had seen them already. The upside is that it pushed me as a teacher -- I would study the curriculum and then seek a new way to teach the principles, something that wasn't in the manuals. I imagine the hope here is that studying the same scripture blocks in church, home, and seminary will deepen the discussion and strengthen the learning. I hope that is the case. I believe there is also a risk that it will feel redundant and boring. We'll all need to step it up! (Which I suppose is the goal, right?) 2
hope_for_things Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts about this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? Interesting, I hadn't heard this. If they actually go into depth and really study the scriptures instead of just proof texting like in Sunday School, then perhaps this will be helpful. 1
Jane_Doe Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: IDoes doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Depth matters. Seminary & home study are for depth. A properly done lesson (in any setting) doesn't just read the manual to you, and doesn't try to force going through every bullet point. Take a few, and go in depth. Different dives in different settings. 4
rockpond Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 6 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Interesting, I hadn't heard this. If they actually go into depth and really study the scriptures instead of just proof texting like in Sunday School, then perhaps this will be helpful. Good point... if this moves the youth away from proof texting - than I am definitely in favor. 1
nuclearfuels Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? ETA- I find this line comical By suggesting they can "almost" see a difference in the light in their eyes, are they really saying they can't actually see a light in their eyes? Sorry, just thought it was funny. I think your concern about repetition is valid, especially in the New Testament where each of the first four books overlap, significantly in the events they cover. Now, OT, BoM, PGP, D&C on the other hand - a lot of the lessons here likely need a lot of explanation and perhaps different interpretations (looking in your direction Isaiah, 2 Nephi, PGP). And since we humans now have an attention span less than that of a goldfish, repetition might help, at least for my kids 2
RevTestament Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? Repetition is a key to learning. Unfortunately, kids these days seem very distracted. As a school teacher my wife notices many parents who don't want their kids to do homework. The reason for homework is to basically force the kids to teach themselves - one of those means which heavily reinforces learning is repetition. Seminary should by far give the kids a much deeper analysis and reinforcement of the material presented in Come Follow Me. From that standpoint I think it is a good idea. If it just simply rehashes the same material, I think, however, it does raise the risk that some will get bored. Of course I am making presumptions because I really have no idea what the material will be like. My kids actually loved their seminary classes. They found them very stimulating. I hope that doesn't change. Of course a lot of that may have had to do with their teacher. I will say that as a father, I found it nice. I think the youngest two in particular looked more forward to seminary than they did to their HS classes. I do hope that they don't break a good thing. 1
Popular Post bluebell Posted March 22, 2019 Popular Post Posted March 22, 2019 I'm kind of with HJW and rockpond on this one. It seems odd and I worry that the repetition will make the kids bored. I also don't understand the benefit of teaching a book of scripture for a few months, taking a break for three months, and then starting it back up again. Or are the kids expected to do seminary in the summer too? And how is it going to work with doing the NT, where they are supposed to start that in June of 2019 but our kids won't be back in school until the end of August? And what's the point of only teaching the NT for 3 and 1/2 months? It'll be interesting to see how this is all going to work. 5
Bob Crockett Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 33 minutes ago, hope_for_things said: Interesting, I hadn't heard this. If they actually go into depth and really study the scriptures instead of just proof texting like in Sunday School, then perhaps this will be helpful. "Proof-texting" is what the other guy does, the guy you think is a dolt. St. Paul was the biggest proof texter of all. Jesus second. 4
MustardSeed Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 Think about this. In church and home it’s New Testament. In life it’s Book of Mormon. In seminary it’s doctrine and Cov. The kids are expected to read, study and learn it all. Thats... a lot . It sets teens up to fall short imo. As a mom, I support this message. 3
HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 24 minutes ago, rockpond said: Good point... if this moves the youth away from proof texting - than I am definitely in favor. Yeah, but isn't the Come Follow Me essentially a topically based course of study? Don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with topical study, but it's not the only valuable type of study. From a Church News article... Quote While seminary studies will continue to be based in the scriptures, the Church leaders explained that the curriculum will be more doctrine-based and will help to strengthen, protect, and prepare youth for missions, marriage, and service in the Church. https://www.thechurchnews.com/global/2019-03-22/jeffrey-r-holland-come-follow-me-seminary-curriculum-49313?fbclid=IwAR2HfF6i0lR-W1gD3lR_xYfXGBdKIfoRBl1dT9WrACkaUK4EAsgqaqE1a1c "Doctrine based" sounds good, right? Who would be opposed to a curriculum that is based in teaching doctrine? But to some, like me, I hear "doctrine based" as code for proof texting. Right or wrong, I equate doctrine based to be thematic or topical based, meaning that they will study a topic and then proof text scriptures to back up the doctrine, instead of digging deep into the actual scripture and seeing what is taught. I know this can be a fine line, and most wouldn't have much issue with it, but I think young people in generally are becoming scripturally illiterate. They don't understand the New Testament, the authors, the timelines etc. They only know how the NT ties in with doctrines taught by current church leaders. Again, there's not necessarily anything wrong with this approach as long as it's clear that we want students to be educated in church teachings, not necessarily in scripture. I'm wondering if we're witnessing Correlation 2.5
MustardSeed Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 I’m more curious about the “year” part. Year round? Summer school? 1
HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: I’m more curious about the “year” part. Year round? Summer school? Yeah, it will be interesting to see what they do with that. Also, why start this in June?
MustardSeed Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: Yeah, it will be interesting to see what they do with that. Also, why start this in June? Curious. Kids often need to work summers and the likelihood of early morning seminary in the summer is... uh... actually I think it just means that seminary will study the same material in the calendar year with the rest of the church. Attendance schedule won’t change. Edited March 22, 2019 by MustardSeed 2
Scott Lloyd Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 46 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? ETA- I find this line comical By suggesting they can "almost" see a difference in the light in their eyes, are they really saying they can't actually see a light in their eyes? Sorry, just thought it was funny. I can certainly see the inspiration behind an effort to more perfectly unify the gospel teaching in the home, at Church and in weekday instruction. I don’t see that it has to be redundant or boring. It depends a great deal on presentation and attitude. The timing is not odd in view of the intent to achieve above-said unification. It’s not self-evident to me that Church instruction must slavishly coincide with the academic year in U.S. public schools. “This is how it has always been done” is seldom an adequate reason. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, MustardSeed said: Curious. Kids often need to work summers and the likelihood of early morning seminary in the summer is... uh... I really don't think they are expecting year 'round seminary. My guess is it has more to do with variation in school schedules in the US and around the world. No way my kids are getting up early all week in the Summer 1
Avatar4321 Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 56 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd. Thoughts? ETA- I find this line comical By suggesting they can "almost" see a difference in the light in their eyes, are they really saying they can't actually see a light in their eyes? Sorry, just thought it was funny. Why would studying the scriptures ever be boring? 1
HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said: I can certainly see the inspiration behind an effort to more perfectly unify the gospel teaching in the home, at Church and in weekday instruction. I don’t see that it has to be redundant or boring. It depends a great deal on presentation and attitude. The timing is not odd in view of the intent to achieve above-said unification. It’s not self-evident to me that Church instruction must slavishly coincide with the academic year in U.S. public schools. “This is how it has always been done” is seldom an adequate reason. To avoid redundancy, wouldn't it be essential to have coordination between home, seminary, church instructors? Even great teachers, who are following the lesson plan, will cover much of the same ground, or show the same videos etc, not knowing what has already been done by the other instructors 1
HappyJackWagon Posted March 22, 2019 Author Posted March 22, 2019 2 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said: Why would studying the scriptures ever be boring? As has already been stated, many will find extreme repetition to be dull, especially at 6:00 am 1
rockpond Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 15 minutes ago, MustardSeed said: Think about this. In church and home it’s New Testament. In life it’s Book of Mormon. In seminary it’s doctrine and Cov. The kids are expected to read, study and learn it all. Thats... a lot . It sets teens up to fall short imo. As a mom, I support this message. There is also some benefit to that... Do I want my child to do all of his/her studying of the New Testament during their freshman year and then go out on their mission at the end of high school, not having covered the life of Christ for three years? I'm not discounting your point (which is valid), just suggesting that there a case can be made for both sides. 1
hope_for_things Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 20 minutes ago, Bob Crockett said: "Proof-texting" is what the other guy does, the guy you think is a dolt. St. Paul was the biggest proof texter of all. Jesus second. Ha, good point. Proof texting is a commonly practiced religious tradition.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 3 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: To avoid redundancy, wouldn't it be essential to have coordination between home, seminary, church instructors? Even great teachers, who are following the lesson plan, will cover much of the same ground, or show the same videos etc, not knowing what has already been done by the other instructors Perhaps. I guess we’ll see how it shakes out. I’m not too worried, believing as I do that, for one who seeks it, there is abundant depth to be plumbed in any given gospel principle or scriptural teaching.
bsjkki Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said: I really don't think they are expecting year 'round seminary. My guess is it has more to do with variation in school schedules in the US and around the world. No way my kids are getting up early all week in the Summer The First Presidency letter says seminary will follow the academic calendar. No summer seminary unless the kids have summer school. 3
Robert F. Smith Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: I just posted this in News but then realized no one ever looks at the news section I'm curious about your thoughts regarding this change because it doesn't make a ton of sense to me personally. Does doubling up on Come Follow Me for Seminary just add on to the repetition these kids are getting at church. To me it sounds like that could be a very redundant/boring approach to gospel learning. Also, the timing of changes to match the calendar year instead of the school year, starting this June, seems odd...................... It certainly emphasizes the intent of the Brethren to see religion as active belief rather than an intellectual process. There is nothing new in that, but I do wonder whether such a program will be enough of a challenge for youth. Is this a decision to allow the flock to be exposed to trolls with no defenses except the Holy Spirit? Will that accelerate the loss of youth?
bsjkki Posted March 22, 2019 Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) 22 hours ago, rockpond said: There is also some benefit to that... Do I want my child to do all of his/her studying of the New Testament during their freshman year and then go out on their mission at the end of high school, not having covered the life of Christ for three years? I'm not discounting your point (which is valid), just suggesting that there a case can be made for both sides. But, the kids shut down when they are being pressured to read 3 different books of scripture at the same time. It is a set up for failure. I like that it will focus on one book per year. It only has to be repetitive if they make it repetitive. I hope seminary covers more depth. Our home study Come Follow Me feels more breadth than depth. But we read all the assigned scriptures together the same night and have a discussion. We chose to do it that way so my seminary kid would get it done but not have Come Follow Me interfere with their required seminary reading. We may reevaluate this now. Edited March 23, 2019 by bsjkki 2
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