Scott Lloyd Posted March 24, 2019 Posted March 24, 2019 (edited) On 3/22/2019 at 11:55 AM, bluebell said: Yes, I think the important thing will be for the manuals to focus on different things, and to provide better scriptural content in seminary would be great. I think that it's essential to be able to liken the scriptures to ourselves, but understanding them as the writer understood what they were writing is also very important. Assuming we can know the mind of the writer. I think that can be ascertained only imperfectly at best. I agree that a contextual understanding of scripture is enlightening and highly beneficial, but it occurs to me that content is part of the scriptural canon because of its timeless and general application, especially scripture that has been brought forth in latter days directly through the gift and power of God. So, ideally, a study of scripture will both explore its context and consider its general application, especially application that has been offered by inspired Church leaders acting in the authority and power of their callings. Edited March 25, 2019 by Scott Lloyd
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 24, 2019 Posted March 24, 2019 On 3/23/2019 at 3:36 AM, Scott Lloyd said: It’s not self-evident to me that Church instruction must slavishly coincide with the academic year in U.S. public schools. Elder Bednar did tell us here that American Saints were going to find it hard to deal with coming changes. It would appear from this thread alone that he wasn't wrong ... 2
Avatar4321 Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 One day it would be nice if we just did what we were asked without murmuring about it 2
HappyJackWagon Posted March 25, 2019 Author Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Avatar4321 said: One day it would be nice if we just did what we were asked without murmuring about it I suppose this could be considered murmuring. But I think it could also be viewed as part of a natural process we humans go through to understand change, recognize possible challenges, and then try to implement them in an intelligent way. For example, if we never discuss the possibility that this curriculum could be viewed as repetitious and boring for youth, we likely wouldn't prepare ourselves to do our best to make it interesting and not repetitive. So perhaps your dismissal of "murmuring" is really dismissing the attempt to understand the change, the environment in which it occurs, and the attempts at problem solving. 2
Ragerunner Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 I think this announcement was just the first piece to changes coming to the seminary program.
bluebell Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 My 17 year old son (who will be a senior next year) is sad because with the change in the Seminary schedule, he won't get to have OT ever (that was supposed to be his senior year). Now he'll get another half of the NT and then some of the BOM again.
Danzo Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, bluebell said: My 17 year old son (who will be a senior next year) is sad because with the change in the Seminary schedule, he won't get to have OT ever (that was supposed to be his senior year). Now he'll get another half of the NT and then some of the BOM again. he could always just read the OT on his own. ( I know I did when i was his age) Just saying 3
Amulek Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Ragerunner said: I think this announcement was just the first piece to changes coming to the seminary program. I suppose that's possible. For example, they could change the starting point for seminary to be in January of the year in which you will enter high school (i.e., the end of 8th grade for most US students). That would solve the issue with having disjointed curriculum during the students' Freshman / Senior years. But that would also mean Seniors would be finished with seminary mid-way through their final year of high school, and it seems like having them be involved in seminary up to graduation would be more ideal. Idle hands and all.
rockpond Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 minute ago, Amulek said: I suppose that's possible. For example, they could change the starting point for seminary to be in January of the year in which you will enter high school (i.e., the end of 8th grade for most US students). That would solve the issue with having disjointed curriculum during the students' Freshman / Senior years. But that would also mean Seniors would be finished with seminary mid-way through their final year of high school, and it seems like having them be involved in seminary up to graduation would be more ideal. Idle hands and all. Interesting idea but wouldn't work for released time seminary students here.
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 9:25 AM, MustardSeed said: Think about this. In church and home it’s New Testament. In life it’s Book of Mormon. In seminary it’s doctrine and Cov. The kids are expected to read, study and learn it all. Thats... a lot . It sets teens up to fall short imo. As a mom, I support this message. Much, much more is expected of observant Jewish and Muslim kids. Chaim Potok’s books describe this very well.
bluebell Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Danzo said: he could always just read the OT on his own. ( I know I did when i was his age) Just saying Of course, but that’s true for all the scriptures. Seminary exists in large part because we believe that there are benefits to be had for youth that are not to be had from reading the scriptures on their own, right? Otherwise, why are we bothering with Seminary at all? Edited March 25, 2019 by bluebell 1
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 27 minutes ago, Amulek said: I suppose that's possible. For example, they could change the starting point for seminary to be in January of the year in which you will enter high school (i.e., the end of 8th grade for most US students). That would solve the issue with having disjointed curriculum during the students' Freshman / Senior years. But that would also mean Seniors would be finished with seminary mid-way through their final year of high school, and it seems like having them be involved in seminary up to graduation would be more ideal. Idle hands and all. Seven HS grad kids of my own and 42 years in the public schools...the last months of a senior’s life are anything but idle. We would not have objected to Seminary ending a bit earlier. It got pretty hectic trying to pack it all in. Eventually, I think Seminary could be online, like some homeschool programs. Current CES folks could easily be transitioned to some sort of Church-wide program like Australia’s long distance schools. Maybe two or three online classes per week, morning and/or evening at the family’s choice, with periodic regional get-togethers. The technology is there. 3
HappyJackWagon Posted March 25, 2019 Author Posted March 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Seven HS grad kids of my own and 42 years in the public schools...the last months of a senior’s life are anything but idle. We would not have objected to Seminary ending a bit earlier. It got pretty hectic trying to pack it all in. Eventually, I think Seminary could be online, like some homeschool programs. Current CES folks could easily be transitioned to some sort of Church-wide program like Australia’s long distance schools. Maybe two or three online classes per week, morning and/or evening at the family’s choice, with periodic regional get-togethers. The technology is there. This tech is being utilized in some ways. My stake has an online seminary course with an instructor called specifically to be an online instructor. I believe they meet in person 1 time per week. The rest is online. Of course that could be adjusted to be more in line with what you suggest. 2
rockpond Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Seven HS grad kids of my own and 42 years in the public schools...the last months of a senior’s life are anything but idle. We would not have objected to Seminary ending a bit earlier. It got pretty hectic trying to pack it all in. Eventually, I think Seminary could be online, like some homeschool programs. Current CES folks could easily be transitioned to some sort of Church-wide program like Australia’s long distance schools. Maybe two or three online classes per week, morning and/or evening at the family’s choice, with periodic regional get-togethers. The technology is there. I appreciate that you are thinking about the CES employees with your comment. So many of these discussions about changes to seminary often ignore them impact on those individuals who have dedicated their careers to church education. I have to believe that the Brethren would be considering them in any decisions they made about the future of seminary. Regarding online seminary -- a move to doing it more online would be an interesting development in my area where stake leaders have specifically eschewed online seminary and will only let students who cannot find any other possible way to attend, participate online.
Ragerunner Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 I was at church CES training that was being broadcast by BYU Idaho about two years ago and during that training they clearly stated that the church was looking to launch a full high school educational program through pathways. I could see them rolling seminary into this type of program just like they integrate institute into pathways.
Amulek Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, rockpond said: Interesting idea but wouldn't work for released time seminary students here. Meh. Nobody cares about those privileged, release time seminary kids. Make the 8th graders attend early morning seminary, up-hill, both ways for their first semester. It will be good for them. 1
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, rockpond said: I appreciate that you are thinking about the CES employees with your comment. So many of these discussions about changes to seminary often ignore them impact on those individuals who have dedicated their careers to church education. I have to believe that the Brethren would be considering them in any decisions they made about the future of seminary. Regarding online seminary -- a move to doing it more online would be an interesting development in my area where stake leaders have specifically eschewed online seminary and will only let students who cannot find any other possible way to attend, participate online. Imagine the worldwide announcement..... "Next Wednesday's class will be taught by our special guests, Elders Gong and Suores."
Danzo Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 2 hours ago, bluebell said: Of course, but that’s true for all the scriptures. Seminary exists in large part because we believe that there are benefits to be had for youth that are not to be had from reading the scriptures on their own, right? Otherwise, why are we bothering with Seminary at all? They also have the OT manual available online (at least for the Institute). Seminary has value, but it will never replace personal study.
Calm Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Danzo said: They also have the OT manual available online (at least for the Institute). Seminary has value, but it will never replace personal study. There are much better study manuals for OT if one is going to do it on one's own. Maybe find other kids who want to do it with him and a trustworthy adult to supervise as part of an extended family study? Edited March 25, 2019 by Calm
bluebell Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 36 minutes ago, Danzo said: They also have the OT manual available online (at least for the Institute). Seminary has value, but it will never replace personal study. My son is sad that he will miss out on studying the OT in high school in Seminary. It's not the end of the world but he's still not excited about it. I think his emotions on that are valid and I'm not going to try to convince him that he really shouldn't care since seminary will never replace personal study anyway.
Scott Lloyd Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Seven HS grad kids of my own and 42 years in the public schools...the last months of a senior’s life are anything but idle. We would not have objected to Seminary ending a bit earlier. It got pretty hectic trying to pack it all in. Eventually, I think Seminary could be online, like some homeschool programs. Current CES folks could easily be transitioned to some sort of Church-wide program like Australia’s long distance schools. Maybe two or three online classes per week, morning and/or evening at the family’s choice, with periodic regional get-togethers. The technology is there. I was so busy and distracted the last term of my senior year that I almost flunked out of the fourth year of seminary. I remember my teacher letting me know in a casual aside at our seminary graduation on Sunday evening that it was pretty much by his good graces that I was receiving that certificate. I can see good justification for ending seminary course work a few weeks prior to high school graduation. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Calm said: There are much better study manuals for OT if one is going to do it on one's own. Maybe find other kids who want to do it with him and a trustworthy adult to supervise as part of an extended family study? If there are other manuals used, I think they should be correlated by the Church to ensure doctrinal purity.
Bernard Gui Posted March 25, 2019 Posted March 25, 2019 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I was so busy and distracted the last term of my senior year that I almost flunked out of the fourth year of seminary. I remember my teacher letting me know in a casual aside at our seminary graduation on Sunday evening that it was pretty much by his good graces that I was receiving that certificate. I can see good justification for ending seminary course work a few weeks prior to high school graduation. Trying to cram seminary finals and graduation into the already over-filled senior end times? Tons of stress, and sometimes missed events because of schedule conflicts. Why not do seminary graduation in April or May? 1
rockpond Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Imagine the worldwide announcement..... "Next Wednesday's class will be taught by our special guests, Elders Gong and Suores." Of course, nothing is stopping them from doing that now.
Avatar4321 Posted March 26, 2019 Posted March 26, 2019 12 hours ago, bluebell said: My 17 year old son (who will be a senior next year) is sad because with the change in the Seminary schedule, he won't get to have OT ever (that was supposed to be his senior year). Now he'll get another half of the NT and then some of the BOM again. When I went through seminary we ended up doing the Book of Mormon senior year instead of D&C. Interestingly enough it was what lead me to read the D&C as a freshman in college and lead to me receiving my testimony. encourage him to study it independently if he is that disappointed. It will only bless him. But studying the Scriptures regardless is always good 1
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