CA Steve Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 In Mormon theology is the Holy Ghost male or female or unknown?
JAHS Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 Unknown, but most members and church leaders refer to the Holy Ghost as "He". Others like to think it is a "She". 1
pogi Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, CA Steve said: In Mormon theology is the Holy Ghost male or female or unknown? Some claim that she is Lady Wisdom, even Heavenly Mother. But it is all speculative without revelation.
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, CA Steve said: In Mormon theology is the Holy Ghost male or female or unknown? Apostles in the past have said male but it is unclear if this was revelation or supposition. 2
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 Just now, Bernard Gui said: Why not ask zim? The Holy Ghost prefers the pronoun “Xhe”.
Bernard Gui Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: The Holy Ghost prefers the pronoun “Xhe”. And you know this......how? Besides, zim is objective xhe is subjective. Let’s get our grammar straight. Edited February 1, 2019 by Bernard Gui
Rivers Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 We’ll know for sure once the Holy Ghost finally gets a body. 1
CA Steve Posted February 1, 2019 Author Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Rivers said: We’ll know for sure once the Holy Ghost finally gets a body. I thought that the reason it does not have a body is it is necessary for it to be without one in order to operate as the HG. If it were to acquire one would it cease to be the HG? I suppose the answer is might be that the HG is an office but then aren't we defining one of the Godhead as an office not a specific person? Edited February 1, 2019 by CA Steve
JAHS Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, CA Steve said: 13 minutes ago, Rivers said: We’ll know for sure once the Holy Ghost finally gets a body. I thought that the reason it does not have a body is it is necessary for it to be without one in order to operate as the HG. If it were to acquire one would it cease to be the HG? I suppose the answer is might be that the HG is an office but then aren't we defining one of the Godhead as an office not a specific person? Joseph Smith once said that, "The Holy Ghost is yet a spiritual body and is waiting to take to himself a body, as the Savior did."[Joseph Smith, Encyclopedia of Joseph Smith's Teachings, edited by Larry E. Dahl and Donald Q. Cannon (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1997)] and; "The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) I think however that these statements from Joseph should probably be considered as speculation at best, since he nor any other prophet has proclaimed it official church doctrine. We are not even really that certain that the Holy Ghost ever needs to obtain a body. He is already considered a God without one, the same as Jesus was before He came to earth. President Joseph Fielding Smith was asked about this and this was his answer: "There is so much in relation to the gospel that we are required to do and so many commandments to observe and ordinances to receive in order that we may obtain an exaltation in the kingdom of God, that we should have no time to enter into speculation in relation to the Holy Ghost. Too many members of the Church bother themselves about something which does not concern us and which has not been revealed. They neglect the weightier matters and fail to seek for the light and truth which is revealed and also to obtain and be true to the ordinances and covenants so essential to our salvation."(Answers to Gospel Questions, vol. 2 p. 148) 1
The Nehor Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said: And you know this......how? Besides, zim is objective xhe is subjective. Let’s get our grammar straight. Found out using Hiram Page’s stone. And I am a writer so I can claim by authority that I am right and you are wrong, so there.
Storm Rider Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 What we know is what has been taught about the Godhead. We do not know the gender of this member of the Godhead though, as has already been said, we refer to the Holy Ghost as a male most often. The mysteries of God may be revealed to those who have a desire to know and to seek after them. Such a search may take a lifetime and even then, many mysteries may never be known in mortality. It is one of the lessons of the temple - each individual is given knowledge, but any more knowledge is up to the individual. It is one of the reasons temple presidencies do not easily answer all questions posed to them.
JLHPROF Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) On 2/1/2019 at 12:29 PM, Rivers said: We’ll know for sure once the Holy Ghost finally gets a body. Assuming he hasn't already. "The Holy Ghost is now in a state of probation which if he should perform in righteousness he may pass through the same or a similar course of things that the Son has." (Joseph Smith, The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 245; Sabbath address, Nauvoo, 27 August 1843. Reported by Franklin D. Richards.) Edited February 3, 2019 by JLHPROF
Bernard Gui Posted February 1, 2019 Posted February 1, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: Found out using Hiram Page’s stone. And I am a writer so I can claim by authority that I am right and you are wrong, so there. I lower my gaze at your magnificence. Edited February 1, 2019 by Bernard Gui
teddyaware Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, CA Steve said: In Mormon theology is the Holy Ghost male or female or unknown? There was a time in the history of the Church when the following excerpt from the book of John would have satisfied virtually every member as to whether or not the Holy Ghost is a male member of the Godhead, but today these words from the mouth of the Saviour Himself will likely carry little, if any, weight. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bearthem now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16) Edited February 2, 2019 by teddyaware 1
Maidservant Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Going by Nephi's vision or visit experience, the Holy Ghost is a man. However, I have come to a few things that it is not a simple yes or no question like that. (Or I've just got it wrong.) I do think that the person speaking at Jesus' baptism and "sending" the "dove" was 'Heavenly Mother'. I would not equate that with the Holy Ghost necessarily. I do not prefer the Heavenly Mother as Holy Ghost explanation, myself. I have other ways of noting where Heavenly Mother is presented.
Storm Rider Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, teddyaware said: There was a time in the history of the Church when the following excerpt from the book of John would have satisfied virtually every member as to whether or not the Holy Ghost is a male member of the Godhead, but today these words from the mouth of the Saviour Himself will likely carry little, if any, weight. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bearthem now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. (John 16) Hello Teddy, it is always good to hear from you. I think the vast majority of saints understands your statement perfectly and we would all identify the Holy Spirit as male. Yet, me personally, I will not get upset with another saint who has a different opinion. In a Sunday School class, I would point to these same scriptures and others, but I would admit that I am not aware of a specific revelation that specifically addresses the issue further.
MustardSeed Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 Primary song says He. We all pretty much know it’s always been assumed it’s a He by the mere fact that if anyone referred non challantly at the pulpit to the hg as she the feeling in the air would be ripe with tension. Personally it makes more sense that it would be a she.
teddyaware Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 6 hours ago, Storm Rider said: Hello Teddy, it is always good to hear from you. I think the vast majority of saints understands your statement perfectly and we would all identify the Holy Spirit as male. Yet, me personally, I will not get upset with another saint who has a different opinion. In a Sunday School class, I would point to these same scriptures and others, but I would admit that I am not aware of a specific revelation that specifically addresses the issue further. I enjoy your posts as well. So I guess what you’re saying is nearly everyone who participates on this board knows full well the scriptures plainly speak of the Holy Ghost as being a man, but in order to keep the conversation lively and stimulating board etiquette requires the scriptures be put aside as everyone pretends the question hasn’t been answered? 1
Maidservant Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, teddyaware said: the scriptures plainly "Anyone" who reads the scriptures "knows full well" that the scriptures always have more layers than the surface one, and that the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be fully understood without understanding deep symbolism and the New Testament cannot be understood without drawing on Old Testament symbolism. When you go there, the element of spirit and many God elements are female. Also in contemplating Father-Son-Holy Ghost one might be led to also contemplate, say, Mother-Daughter-Holy Ghost. Just as one example, there are many other ways a contemplation of the Holy Ghost may go. I'm not saying one has to, but it's not unreasonable. Maleness is most often explicit in scripture, and femaleness is most often implicit but still there so when you are a female and reading the scriptures to "liken it to myself" as Nephi requests, so you try to draw the female implicitness out, you sometimes get a very different set of scriptures. I have come to the conclusion that men really don't have to do this when reading scripture and that they don't really get what women have to do when reading scripture. For example, think about Alma 13. As a woman, ought I to just skip it since it's not about me or say it is about men and let me read about men? Or should I come to understand what it means, is "likened" to me as a woman? Again, don't have to agree, but as a woman trying to liken the scriptures to myself, I have to do quite a bit of reading between the lines with hopefully the help of the Spirit. I also think men could benefit from this, for example, imagine themselves as the prostitute brought before Jesus to be stoned. Is it about being a man or a woman? Or can we go to another level? Now, I'm not saying this directly is right. But I am saying, people who know the scriptures full well and who ponder and seek for expansion of knowledge and testimony might very reasonably be led to places not met by proof texting the scriptures (the poorest way to read the scriptures, in my opinion, with the least amount of truth and insight). I personally think at this time (until I learn more) that the Holy Ghost is our own selves--so the answer of whether or not the Holy Ghost is male or female the answer is 'yes'. Edited February 2, 2019 by Maidservant 2
MustardSeed Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 37 minutes ago, Maidservant said: personally think at this time (until I learn more) that the Holy Ghost is our own selves--so the answer of whether or not the Holy Ghost is male or female the answer is 'yes'. ❤️ 1
Storm Rider Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, teddyaware said: I enjoy your posts as well. So I guess what you’re saying is nearly everyone who participates on this board knows full well the scriptures plainly speak of the Holy Ghost as being a man, but in order to keep the conversation lively and stimulating board etiquette requires the scriptures be put aside as everyone pretends the question hasn’t been answered? No, that is not what my intention was. I think some might disagree that the use of "he" in the scriptures was intentional and may be a standard use of language for the time. As a result, they may feel an ability to explore different positions on their own path to the discovery of God. If at a period of time, some want to think of the Holy Spirit as female then I am not really bothered by it. I don't think it is a significant point at present to debate. We can do as you have done and show a few scriptures, but that does not perfect the point. Until such time that God reveals more information about the Holy Spirit, I am more willing to allow others different conjectures on their path to understanding the mysteries of God.
CA Steve Posted February 2, 2019 Author Posted February 2, 2019 There was a time in the history of the church when members knew the 8th Article of Faith. I have no problem with those who believe Mormon theology holds that the HG is male.
teddyaware Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 This is really cool and opens up a whole new world of very interesting possibilities! For instance, even though the Savior repeatedly refers to his Father as divine male personage, or a Man of holiness, it could actually be that Heavenly Father is a woman, or that she/he is a woman who identifies as a male. And it could just as well be true that Heavenly Mother is biological male who identifies as a woman. This new (for me) and much more fluid approach to LDS theology is kind of like comparing boring, one dimensional chess with the much more interesting and challenging world of three dementional chess.
Burnside Posted February 2, 2019 Posted February 2, 2019 On 2/1/2019 at 9:13 AM, CA Steve said: In Mormon theology is the Holy Ghost male or female or unknown? 1 Nephi 11:11-18 Nephi sees the Spirit, refers to him as a Man, who shows him the Mother of the Son of God. And most of your previous answers indicate the complete lack of knowledge of male vs. female. 😁😅
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