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Temple Recommend Questions


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Church leadership has laid out clear questions to determine one’s temple worthiness.

If someone answers “no” (or incorrectly) to any of the questions, does that put the bishop or stake president in a position in which they MUST not issue or renew the recommend?  Or, is there discretion given to local leaders to give leeway as they follow the spirit in instances in which a member does not affirm the questions correctly?

Asking for a friend...

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I said "No" to:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.)

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?  (The only person on Earth?  I find no scriptural support that there should only be one prophet at a time - I believe God has many sheep - many tribes - lost to church members perhaps, but not lost to God... Sustaining all local leaders?  I will not sustain leaders I do not know... made the mistakes of previously raising my hand and support a child molester in their leadership calling - I will not do that again. )

I said "No" and I do not have a TR. 

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10 minutes ago, changed said:

I said "No" to:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.)

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?  (The only person on Earth?  I find no scriptural support that there should only be one prophet at a time - I believe God has many sheep - many tribes - lost to church members perhaps, but not lost to God... Sustaining all local leaders?  I will not sustain leaders I do not know... made the mistakes of previously raising my hand and support a child molester in their leadership calling - I will not do that again. )

I said "No" and I do not have a TR. 

132:7 is usually used for the "never but one on the earth" rule. 

"there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred".  I can see your point though if we were comparing the authority of the ancient american quorum of the twelve and the old world quorum of the twelve as both sets were in power at the same time but different locations on earth.  

 

Edited by blueglass
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2 hours ago, blueglass said:

132:7 is usually used for the "never but one on the earth" rule. 

"there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred".  I can see your point though if we were comparing the authority of the ancient american quorum of the twelve and the old world quorum of the twelve as both sets were in power at the same time but different locations on earth.  

 

I had never thought about that before. Is there a good explanation somewhere that solves that problem? I even had the thought that when a Prophet (especially Joseph Smith) dies then there is no longer "one" who holds the keys on the earth. I assume there is a satisfying solution somewhere since Joseph would have been aware of this when the revelation came to him.

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https://www.ldschurchnews.com/archive/1988-09-17/twelve-were-clalled-as-nephite-disciples-157

Quote

"'While in every instance the Nephite twelve are spoken of as disciples, the fact remains that they had been endowed with divine authority to be special witnesses for Christ among their own people. Therefore, they were vitually apostles to the Nephite race, although their jurisdiction was . . . eventually to be subject to the authority and jurisdiction of Peter and the twelve chosen in Palestsine.

"'According to the definition prevailing in the world an apostle is a witness for Christ, or one who evangelizes a certain nation or people. . . .

 

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5 minutes ago, SettingDogStar said:

I had never thought about that before. Is there a good explanation somewhere that solves that problem? I even had the thought that when a Prophet (especially Joseph Smith) dies then there is no longer "one" who holds the keys on the earth. I assume there is a satisfying solution somewhere since Joseph would have been aware of this when the revelation came to him.

The priesthood keys necessary to govern the church are jointly held by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.  The president of the church is the only one authorized to exercise those keys.  Upon the death of the president the First Presidency is dissolved, but the keys are not lost, as they are held by the apostles.  When a new president is set apart he is then authorized the exercise those keys.

There is no record of precisely which, is any, priesthood keys were held by the Nephite disciples or even how they functioned.  Comparing the global church of today with that of 2000 years ago is not possible. 

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5 hours ago, changed said:

I said "No" to:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.)

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?  (The only person on Earth?  I find no scriptural support that there should only be one prophet at a time - I believe God has many sheep - many tribes - lost to church members perhaps, but not lost to God... Sustaining all local leaders?  I will not sustain leaders I do not know... made the mistakes of previously raising my hand and support a child molester in their leadership calling - I will not do that again. )

I said "No" and I do not have a TR. 

Did you expect to receive one after those responses?

 

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27 minutes ago, Avatar4321 said:

I routinely answer no when I'm asked if I affiliated with any groups that oppose the Church and still obtain my Recommend.

Before I changed jobs, I always used to answer yes to that question ... and then ask, 'Wait, do you mean other than working for the university?'

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3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I routinely answer no when I'm asked if I affiliated with any groups that oppose the Church and still obtain my Recommend.

 

i doubt I would if I said yes

Right. But you know what I mean - there are the “right” answers and the “wrong” answers.

Can one get a temple recommend if one answers any of those questions “wrong?”

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4 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I routinely answer no when I'm asked if I affiliated with any groups that oppose the Church and still obtain my Recommend.

 

i doubt I would if I said yes

I always say yes...the National Education Association....teachers’ union. Still get the recommend.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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10 hours ago, changed said:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.

Perhaps you misunderstand the Apostacy. The Light of Christ lights every person in the world.

Quote

44 For you shall live by every word that proceedeth forth from the mouth of God.
45 For the word of the Lord is truth, and whatsoever is truth is light, and whatsoever is light is Spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus Christ.
46 And the Spirit giveth light to every man that cometh into the world; and the Spirit enlighteneth every man through the world, that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit.
47 And every one that hearkeneth to the voice of the Spirit cometh unto God, even the Father.

 

God is mindful of all people, even when the Priesthood keys are not on the earth. God speaks to all people, as Nephi said, 

Quote

2 Nephi 29:11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.

2 Nephi 31: 3 For my soul delighteth in plainness; for after this manner doth the Lord God work among the children of men. For the Lord God giveth light unto the understanding; for he speaketh unto men according to their language, unto their understanding

 

 

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<u><b>10/10</b></u><br>

55 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:
5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

I routinely answer no when I'm asked if I affiliated with any groups that oppose the Church and still obtain my Recommend.

 

i doubt I would if I said yes

I always say yes...the National Education Association....teachers’ union. Still get the recommend.

I would also say yes.... the Boy Scouts.... and I would get a laugh and the recommend. 

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11 hours ago, changed said:

I said "No" to:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.)

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?  (The only person on Earth?  I find no scriptural support that there should only be one prophet at a time - I believe God has many sheep - many tribes - lost to church members perhaps, but not lost to God... Sustaining all local leaders?  I will not sustain leaders I do not know... made the mistakes of previously raising my hand and support a child molester in their leadership calling - I will not do that again. )

I said "No" and I do not have a TR. 

For question 3, what if you had said that you believe God is working with Latter Day saints, and that your testimony is that God is a part of this restoration movement.  (You could say this in good faith and not also endorse the apostasy narrative.  Besides, that apostasy piece isn't even emphasized in the question anyway.  

For question 4, what if the way you agreed with the priesthood authority question is to agree that church leaders are the only ones authorized to exercise authority over this specific church.  In other words, they are the only ones with the keys to administer this church, which includes exercising all priesthood keys, meaning the keys of the CoJCoLDS specifically.  Would that have worked for you?  

 

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11 hours ago, changed said:

I said "No" to:

3 Do you have a testimony of the restoration of the gospel in these the latter days?  (this is also a testimony in the apostasy - I do not like the idea of God leaving the entire world in darkness for hundreds of years, of turning His back on everyone.)

According to God, it is those who have turned their back on the Gospel who are at fault.  It's called free agency.  Every dispensation has ended in apostasy, followed by a restoration.  There is nothing new here.  It is not a good idea to give aid and comfort to apostates.

Quote

4 Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys? Do you sustain members of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as prophets, seers, and revelators? Do you sustain the other General Authorities and local authorities of the Church?  (The only person on Earth?  I find no scriptural support that there should only be one prophet at a time

The LDS Church does not preach that there is only one prophet on the Earth at a time.  Just now (by your own admission)  there are 15 LDS prophets, seers and revelators, only one of whom is the chief prophet and president of the high priesthood.  You have invented false doctrine and use it as a red herring.  Moreover, God can choose to call prophets anywhere on planet Earth anytime He chooses, for whatever purpose.  The LDS Brethren have stated repeatedly that there are many others on Earth engaged in the work, and that we cannot do it all by ourselves.  You take a monomaniacal approach which is foreign to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  Why?

Quote

- I believe God has many sheep - many tribes - lost to church members perhaps, but not lost to God... Sustaining all local leaders?  I will not sustain leaders I do not know... made the mistakes of previously raising my hand and support a child molester in their leadership calling - I will not do that again. )

I said "No" and I do not have a TR. 

I have always understood it that we are sustaining  only those local leaders whom we know -- in our stake and ward.  We do not have to be mind-readers or omniscient to give our reasonable support to local leaders in their just endeavors.  You are not being asked to support child molesters, liars, cheats, and thieves, but only the body of Christ, which is the Church as an organized entity.  The Church cannot function as a holy institution if everyone withholds cooperation.  As explained in the NT by Paul, the Church is an organic whole, which needs all manner of body parts in order to function effectively on behalf of God.  No one in that organic structure must be perfect, and indeed cannot be.  Why do you impose the fallacious "call to perfection" upon the Church?  Human institutions which serve God are always fallible.  We all do the best we can.

Edited by Robert F. Smith
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8 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The priesthood keys necessary to govern the church are jointly held by the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles.  The president of the church is the only one authorized to exercise those keys.  Upon the death of the president the First Presidency is dissolved, but the keys are not lost, as they are held by the apostles.  When a new president is set apart he is then authorized the exercise those keys.

There is no record of precisely which, is any, priesthood keys were held by the Nephite disciples or even how they functioned.  Comparing the global church of today with that of 2000 years ago is not possible. 

Ron Esplin is a bit disappointed that the council of fifty minutes are not more clear (what transpired 26-March, 1844).  In Orson Hyde's document endorsing "that Joseph Smith did declare that he had conferred upon the Twelve every key and every power that he ever held himself before God."  the quorum of twelve don't sign the statement, and Brigham rebuffs that one is even required.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrDTbdMqAE4&amp;t=14m51s

 

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44 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

For question 3, what if you had said that you believe God is working with Latter Day saints, and that your testimony is that God is a part of this restoration movement.  (You could say this in good faith and not also endorse the apostasy narrative.  Besides, that apostasy piece isn't even emphasized in the question anyway.  

I would ask them to elaborate. If they simply repeated this line, verbatim, like a witness under advisement from an attorney, I would smell a rat . . . :) 

For question 4, what if the way you agreed with the priesthood authority question is to agree that church leaders are the only ones authorized to exercise authority over this specific church.  In other words, they are the only ones with the keys to administer this church, which includes exercising all priesthood keys, meaning the keys of the CoJCoLDS specifically.  Would that have worked for you?  

I would follow up with, "Do you believe they possess and are authorized to exercise all priesthood keys over all the earth? Not just 'over this specific church?' "

Whether it would have worked for me depends on their answer to that. :) 

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18 minutes ago, rongo said:

I would ask them to elaborate. If they simply repeated this line, verbatim, like a witness under advisement from an attorney, I would smell a rat . . . :) 

 

I would follow up with, "Do you believe they possess and are authorized to exercise all priesthood keys over all the earth? Not just 'over this specific church?' "

Whether it would have worked for me depends on their answer to that. :) 

I think that it would misunderstanding of priesthood keys, and the very nature of the priesthood itself, to imagine that they only function within one church.

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41 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I think that it would misunderstanding of priesthood keys, and the very nature of the priesthood itself, to imagine that they only function within one church.

Right. If someone were trying to be cute with the question, I would ask them about original intent. Do they really think the question is asking about within the Church only? If they acted like they really did, I would tell them that it doesn't, and ask them about their belief about that. 

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

I would ask them to elaborate. If they simply repeated this line, verbatim, like a witness under advisement from an attorney, I would smell a rat . . . :) 

 

I would follow up with, "Do you believe they possess and are authorized to exercise all priesthood keys over all the earth? Not just 'over this specific church?' "

Whether it would have worked for me depends on their answer to that. :) 

I'm really just recommending that he thinks about the questions in a slightly different way.  Because of leadership roulette, there is a wide range of responses from people, like you've demonstrated here.  Its probably best to just answer yes or no to avoid having leaders "smell a rat" and doing further investigation as you've expressed.  

I don't think the Temple Recommend interview should be an investigation by the leaders administering the questions.  I think people are to self evaluate, and the leader is just there to administer the questions, but the person being interviewed is the person who should decide whether they are worthy or not.  

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51 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

I think that it would misunderstanding of priesthood keys, and the very nature of the priesthood itself, to imagine that they only function within one church.

Thats just the reality of the situation.  Church leaders don't have any authority over anyone, but the people that give them that authority (members of the church.)  Non-members don't recognize them as having any authority over their lives, and so in reality they don't have any authority. 

If someone who believes in voodoo came up to you and told you they were putting a curse on you, would you recognize their authority to do so?  I wouldn't.  

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11 minutes ago, rongo said:

Right. If someone were trying to be cute with the question, I would ask them about original intent. Do they really think the question is asking about within the Church only? If they acted like they really did, I would tell them that it doesn't, and ask them about their belief about that. 

Explain in practical terms how any authority from an Latter-day Saint church leader really has any reach outside of the believers/members of the church?  They don't recognize their authority and it doesn't impact their lives.  

I could claim to have authority over you, and how would that make any difference in your life?  You would ignore it, and that is your right.  

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13 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Thats just the reality of the situation.  Church leaders don't have any authority over anyone, but the people that give them that authority (members of the church.)  Non-members don't recognize them as having any authority over their lives, and so in reality they don't have any authority. 

If someone who believes in voodoo came up to you and told you they were putting a curse on you, would you recognize their authority to do so?  I wouldn't.  

I recognize that that is the reality of the situation as far as those who are not members of the church are concerned.

However, a person who is a member of the church and is seeking entrance into the house of the Lord to participate in some of the most sacred aspect of the gospel should have a different point of view.  For that person not recognize the universality of the priesthood would be a fundamental misunderstanding of the power and authority of God given to his servants on earth.

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