It's Official- 2 Hour Block

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Though I welcome the change, I do have misgivings such as those you highlight here. Also, will members make good use of the extra time, or will they spend it in indolence or in ways that are less than compatible with Sabbath observance?

 I've known homeschoolers who used the same reasoning as Pres. Nelson and Elder Cook.  And I've seen some with initiative to self study and some who neglect education time without a motivating force.

I expect this will be the same.  And knowing how few members actually study outside of the Sunday block I don't see a lot of growth in spiritual and doctrinal knowledge in our future.

[mnn727]

6 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

I'm sorry but I find this really disappointing,  I really think that it will have negative effects on single adults and make them feel more isolated and that this is a church just for families.   It will be difficult to get them to attend meetings at other times.  We have tried study groups and fhe evenings and hardly anyone will come in our stake.

so have a study group right after Church 

[Stargazer]

Just now, bluebell said:

Does the third hour of church make them feel more loved?

That's what I can't figure out. What are singles missing?  Are we supposed to stop talking about families at church to make singles feel less excluded?  

If I have the opportunity I try to avoid Sunday School because I prefer my own curriculum. So very frequently the 2nd hour was for me a chance to read what I wanted, or just sit in the chapel and stare vacantly into space if I wanted.  Now that will be gone.  Should I be disappointed?

In my elders quorum there is one brother, who is married with a few children, and he has been complaining that he doesn't feel welcome in priesthood.  I have no idea why.  He's not the ward nutter that people avoid, ward members seem to be giving him and his family attention while they're at church, and I don't know what the heck he's expecting.  I know that I have always made a point to be friendly and welcoming with him at church. 

 

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Then that’s on them.  

True. But that doesn’t stop me from worrying for them. 

[JLHPROF]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Definitely I’d say the same thing. My testimony of this church and those who lead it isn’t predicated on the length of the Sunday meetings.  

That's not the issue.

It's when the testimony is such that they can say anything they want and we assume it's always inspired.  It removes any weight from their pronouncements and renders them insignificant.

If they say A and it's inspired but the very opposite B would be equally inspired as would C, or D, then why on earth should their announcement of A be seen as important.  Opposite B would have been just as inspired apparently.

[BlueDreams]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Though I welcome the change, I do have misgivings such as those you highlight here. Also, will members make good use of the extra time, or will they spend it in indolence or in ways that are less than compatible with Sabbath observance?

There's likely many who will do less or spend more time in incompatible things to sabbath observance. But at the same time if our faith and worship is only managed and maintain by external expectations or obligations, then it wasn't likely to lead to good sabbath observance period. It's a hollow observance. This gives greater opportunity to have our observance be focused in a way that it should have. 

It'll likely have its hiccups, but to me any program or change in the church is only as powerful as how one implements the change into one's lives. 

I don't mind 3 hr church. But I also have a church 5 minutes away from me, no children, and no major obligations that may disrupt a 3 hr block. So I'm glad that those who may have greater difficulty with it, will have it a little easier.

 

With luv,

BD

[SteveO]

3 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 I've known homeschoolers who used the same reasoning as Pres. Nelson and Elder Cook.  And I've seen some with initiative to self study and some who neglect education time without a motivating force.

I expect this will be the same.  And knowing how few members actually study outside of the Sunday block I don't see a lot of growth in spiritual and doctrinal knowledge in our future.

I think that’s the point though.  There’s a shift towards letting members have more autonomy with their attitude towards the gospel.  I read the following which I think nails it:

“For me, the number one reason for these changes is to see what we will do with more personal responsibility. Will we turn to the Spirit and Jesus for a more personal tutoring of the doctrines? I know I need to step it up to keep up with President Nelson. So far the changes are not difficult to accept, but if you look again, deeper, how has your ministering improved? How has your study of Christ increased? Are you receiving revelation for your own life?

For me, the number one reason for these changes is to see what we will do with more personal responsibility.”

 

 

[JLHPROF]

15 minutes ago, mapman said:

I'm feeling optimistic about informal scripture study groups. I think that will be helpful for a lot of people who don't have family members to study with. I think it could be a big positive in my life.

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the Church speak out against such groups and recommend against having them a few years back?

Edited October 6, 2018 by JLHPROF

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Definitely I’d say the same thing. My testimony of this church and those who lead it isn’t predicated on the length of the Sunday meetings.  

Well, I want to go back to the good old days.  You know, when priesthood meeting was at 7 in the morning, and the brethren went to church ahead of the rest of the family, who then arrived an hour and a half later for Sunday School.  And then everyone went home until the afternoon when they returned for Sacrament meeting.  And of course, Primary on a weekday!

Those were the days, my friend.

Oh, yes, and string-tied garments that went all the way to the ankles and wrists.

Hmmmm.  Is there anything else?  I joined in 1966, so there might have been a few things I missed.

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, sheilauk said:

Suggestions on how not to be? I'm the single adult leader.   I've spoken to many and there are many who already feel God doesn't care about them. 

Sheila, Elder Cook said there is nothing to stop members from remaining at the meetinghouse after the meeting for socializing. Could some of the single adults elect to gather afterward for additional gospel discussion or other purposes? 

Edited October 6, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[mapman]

2 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the Church speak but against such groups and recommend against having them a few years back?

Yes, not recently as far as I know. I remember reading about it somewhere, but I don't really know details about it.

[Stargazer]

8 minutes ago, mapman said:

I'm feeling optimistic about informal scripture study groups. I think that will be helpful for a lot of people who don't have family members to study with. I think it could be a big positive in my life.

Only if they take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.

It's just like Family Home Evening.  You either held it or you didn't.  Your temple recommend didn't depend upon whether you held it every week, or at all.  So some were faithful at it, and others were not.

[Avatar4321]

I’m shocked. Really wasn’t expecting this. Unfortunately my streaming has been cutting in and out so I’m not getting everything.

 

however I fully sustain the change. I’m not entirely sure how family study will work with my part member family but when I can review the talks and pray about it I’m sure the Lord will make things clear

[mapman]

Just now, Stargazer said:

Only if they take advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.

It's just like Family Home Evening.  You either held it or you didn't.  Your temple recommend didn't depend upon whether you held it every week, or at all.  So some were faithful at it, and others were not.

I understand that. I might take initiative to organize a group to meet on Sundays.

[halconero]

6 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the Church speak but against such groups and recommend against having them a few years back?

If I’m remembering the same thing, I believe it was advising against self-help groups, and warning against such meetings replacing Church designed programs.

[JLHPROF]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Well, I want to go back to the good old days.  You know, when priesthood meeting was at 7 in the morning, and the brethren went to church ahead of the rest of the family, who then arrived an hour and a half later for Sunday School.  And then everyone went home until the afternoon when they returned for Sacrament meeting.  And of course, Primary on a weekday!

Those were the days, my friend.

Oh, yes, and string-tied garments that went all the way to the ankles and wrists.

Hmmmm.  Is there anything else?  I joined in 1966, so there might have been a few things I missed.

What you say in mockery I say in sincerity.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That's not the issue.

It's when the testimony is such that they can say anything they want and we assume it's always inspired.  It removes any weight from their pronouncements and renders them insignificant.

If they say A and it's inspired but the very opposite B would be equally inspired as would C, or D, then why on earth should their announcement of A be seen as important.  Opposite B would have been just as inspired apparently.

This has nothing to do with assuming anything though. It’s about feeling the confirmation of the spirit. 

I have felt the spirit confirm to me that these men are called of God and are doing His work.  

[Stargazer]

9 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 I've known homeschoolers who used the same reasoning as Pres. Nelson and Elder Cook.  And I've seen some with initiative to self study and some who neglect education time without a motivating force.

I expect this will be the same.  And knowing how few members actually study outside of the Sunday block I don't see a lot of growth in spiritual and doctrinal knowledge in our future.

How many are paying attention during the Sunday block?  I don't see that this change will degrade spiritual growth or doctrinal knowledge.  I note that the Church test-marketed the change and found that it makes an improvement.

On the other hand, Coca-Cola test-marketed New Coke before releasing it to the general market.  The test-market liked it better than the current product.  And then they released New Coke and the general market went ballistic over it.

I hope that the Church test-marketed it to some stakes that were not doing all that well to see if it made a positive difference.

But I think we can all work to make this work.

Ultimately, we each need to remember that no one can stand on borrowed light.

[halconero]

I think this will be a “sifting” moment. Those who take full advantage of this will see their faith, power, and testimony increase beyond what they had before.

Those who do not will experience a waning.

[MorningStar]

Do not murmur against the inspired two hour block! 

It is holy. Rather than pray about it, I suggest you hold a baby at church for 3 hours. Volunteer in nursery for two hours. 

THE CHURCH IS TRUE!!!!!  

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't the Church speak out against such groups and recommend against having them a few years back?

I'm pretty sure they were speaking about those groups that were promoting private doctrine.  I seem to have heard Elder Cook saying something about study groups that used church-sponsored materials for curriculum.

[sheilauk]

1 minute ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Sheila, Elder Cook said there is nothing to stop members from remaining at the meetinghouse after the meeting for socializing. Could some of the single adults elect to gather afterward to get together for additional gospel discussion or other purposes? 

Of course and I will raise that with the stake presidency but then who organises it & who has the keys to lock up?  When will it start?   How often  should it be scheduled?   And I do not suggest we stop talking about families but it would be nice to talk sometimes about single adults and not as an afterthought.  It would be nice to see a program for them as well as YSAs.  Most of those in my stake do not work with members or even religious people.  They are looking to share some time with like minded people.   Evenings are not good,  too tired after work or afraid to go out at night.  In the day many are at work.  Study groups were discouraged, it took quite a while to persuade my stake to try a study group. After 5 years,  we have reached around 12 regulars.   A third of members in my stake are single. Two thirds of them don't attend church.  They attend YSA and on reaching 30, if not married they stop coming.  Stargazer, what have you lost?   Instead of studies on your own in the 2nd hour, you can go home and study for an hour.  SAs lose an hour of companionship,  of company, going home to an empty house.  For many,  that is lonely. Unless we can get a study group going,  though many friends won't be there because they are in a couple and it makes it more obvious  that we are different and lacking something. As for other family - what if that family isn't a member (many of my singles are in part member families) or if they live many miles away (as all my family do).  I hope we can encourage the SAs to get together but it will take effort, which is hard to maintain.   And Elder Oaks has just said this is a church for families.  

[sheilauk]

18 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

Do not murmur against the inspired two hour block! 

It is holy. Rather than pray about it, I suggest you hold a baby at church for 3 hours. Volunteer in nursery for two hours. 

THE CHURCH IS TRUE!!!!!  

I did nursery for 2 hours a week for 3 years and would do it again. And I volunteer when I can.

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, sheilauk said:

I'm sorry but I find this really disappointing,  I really think that it will have negative effects on single adults and make them feel more isolated and that this is a church just for families.   It will be difficult to get them to attend meetings at other times.  We have tried study groups and fhe evenings and hardly anyone will come in our stake.

I feel for you. This may not be much help, but one thing to consider is that no church policy is optimal for all members. Nor are policies eternal. 

For my family, this policy change will be an improvement.  But I’m confident it will not be a help for other members in my ward, particularly YM I work with who do not come from strong gospel families.  I expect my single siblings may feel the same as you; the focus of this really is to help married families  

So as you come to terms with the change. Don’t think you have to get a testimony that the change is best for you in order to get a testimony that it is best for the church as a whole.  

 

 

[carbon dioxide]

Great news especially for those with younger children.  Sitting in meetings for 3 hours is difficult for young kids.  They need to move and are naturally active.