Bernard Gui Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 8 hours ago, Gray said: There are essentially no real safeguards in place, other than annotating someone's record if they happen to confess to something. Then every adult in the Church must be undergo a thorough background check because at some point he/she will probably work with youth or children. What would this process look like?
Bernard Gui Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 8 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: Perhaps, but background checks are so fundamental and foundational that it seems strange to leave them out. What could be the other aspect that the church promotes that is more effective? Would this apply to all churches where youth and children come into contact with adults, or just the LDS Church?
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, CV75 said: Thank you for the Eye Exam It really is all over the place as well, so I can't make much sense of what you're asking. I put Jana's opinion on a par with Kirby's. Talk about the perspectives held outside the Mormon Corridor! These two are about as parochial as they come. Comparing the 2001 quotes with the current Newsroom, yes, a lot has changed, and the Newsroom acknowledges that and explains why. The large lettering? That's the way it copies over when I copy/paste. If you can tell me how to normalise size, great. It seemed to continue in large lettering even when I commented. Oh, I have read the Newsroom Article at least 3 times...And I just read it again... No. The Church hasn't changed, CV75, it's all just words. And you didn't respond specifically to each point. You just referred me back to the News Article. So again.. 1. Has the church ever conducted a survey to determine the extent of child abuse in church membership? 2. Does the church use screening forms for those working with children/vulnerable groups? 3. Will church leaders always call the police where a crime has been committed? Just a Yes/No answer will do. "The Risk Management department has never conducted a survey to determine the extent to which child sexual abuse happens within the church membership" "The church does not use screening forms with respect to church members who are called to work with children. They do not screen “because the church is founded on religious tenets and is governed by ecclesiastical leaders. It is not part of the program.” “Sexual abuse is a moral transgression and is dealt with in an ecclesiastical manner. It is a risk that is managed by the ecclesiastical leaders according to the scripture and tenets of the church. The actions the church leadership has taken with respect to the loss ultimates are adequate.” Edited September 16, 2018 by Abulafia
Calm Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) When copy/pasting, scroll down to see a black line that gives you an option to "plain text", which works in most cases (not if images) Edited September 16, 2018 by Calm 1
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 46 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said: Then every adult in the Church must be undergo a thorough background check because at some point he/she will probably work with youth or children. What would this process look like? Same as anyone else who works with kids. A criminal background check. It's not that difficult. Here in the UK they are called CRBs. They won't stop abuse but they help to minimise risk.
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 4 minutes ago, Calm said: When copy/pasting, scroll down to see a black line that gives you an option to "plain text", which works in most cases (not if images) Thanks! I found it quite frustrating.
Stargazer Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 On 9/12/2018 at 6:04 PM, jkwilliams said: So, you're suggesting that MormonLeaks "carefully selected" this out of some larger trove of information they were given? On what basis can you say that? My assumption (I'll have to ask Ryan) is that, if they had more, they would have published it. You might also consider asking him if anyone has leaked any confidential documents that put the Church in a good light, and, if so, did he publish those leaks. 1
Gray Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Then every adult in the Church must be undergo a thorough background check because at some point he/she will probably work with youth or children. What would this process look like? They could always limit the number of adults called to work with children if cost is a concern.
Duncan Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 16 hours ago, Abulafia said: 30 years ago, my very non-mormon lecturer at college (UK) pointed out that I should be wary of *patriarchal* religions such as Mormonism. 30 years ago. Things haven't got better. 10 years ago my also non Mormon University Prof. said, in Canada, that he admired the Church and if people want less corruption that's an option
Duncan Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: You might also consider asking him if anyone has leaked any confidential documents that put the Church in a good light, and, if so, did he publish those leaks. we still don't know what the program was for the Mission President Seminar held in Tulsa, OK. in 1995, I want to know what was being served for breakfast!!!!!!! so maybe next week! 1
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 10 minutes ago, Duncan said: 10 years ago my also non Mormon University Prof. said, in Canada, that he admired the Church and if people want less corruption that's an option Again, I was specific in what he criticised. Patriarchy.
BlueDreams Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: We have had victims attend our family and friends support meetings. We welcome them with open arms. Our meetings are general, not specific, however. We cannot pressure anyone into attending.There are women-only groups available. If there are no groups in someone’s area, they can request the creation of one through stake leaders. Persist if they hesitate. Meetings Church-wide can be found here: https://addictionrecovery.lds.org/find-a-meeting?lang=eng Yes. Just to clarify. I don't think the group tries to pressure attendance of addicts. I have seen it pressured by outside sources wanting them to start to change (spouses, bishops, etc). The mandated, can be things like court order for therapy and such. That's less common on a church stance from what I've seen (but I deal with sexual concerns, not drug. So I could be wrong) With luv, BD 1
BlueDreams Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 20 hours ago, Abulafia said: Amulek, I can assure you that outside the Mormon Corridor, the church does not have a good reputation when it comes to the abuse of women and children. You may think that general perception is unfair... Catholic leaders may think the public perception of them is unfair, but it exists and it is gaining momentum. Inside the mormon corridor it can have a poor reputation. I've had poor responses from my time in TX, my female lawyer cousin also received it here in UT, and I receive it from time to time as a therapist. Though assuming sentiment is different from quantitative measures. Do you have evidence that it is generally gaining worse reputation for abuse of women and children? I would like to see it, for my own morbid curiosity. 18 hours ago, california boy said: You do realize that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints ranks as the lest liked Christian religion in America in every single age group in America according to PEW Research Center. The younger the group, the less liked the church is. It is at the absolutely very bottom of any religion and below atheists in the age group of 18-29 year olds. Though it is lowest, the lowest score for mormons is in their 30's and all of the rankings still basically means a neutral stance. It's neither warm or cold....which could mean nothing or something. It could mean most everybody has a neutral view or that the averages mean that there's significant polarization of people's views about us. I've seen a bit of all three. Some people have warm feelings towards us, some have really negative views of us, most have little to no opinion....especially in places that they have little contact to LDS folks. It also means that you, Amulek, and Abulafia could all be right in your observations as you all are simply interacting with different subsets of population that may veer more negative or positive. With luv, BD Edited September 16, 2018 by BlueDreams 4
BlueDreams Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) Duplicate, Glitch Edited September 16, 2018 by BlueDreams
BlueDreams Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) Duplicate Edited September 16, 2018 by BlueDreams
MiserereNobis Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 9 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Would this apply to all churches where youth and children come into contact with adults, or just the LDS Church? It’s done in my diocese, so sure.
Calm Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 5 hours ago, Gray said: They could always limit the number of adults called to work with children if cost is a concern. You ever taught in Primary? 1
Tacenda Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said: Then every adult in the Church must be undergo a thorough background check because at some point he/she will probably work with youth or children. What would this process look like? The same as when you become a scout leader I would think. Don't they do background checks on them? I thought they did, but could be wrong.
CV75 Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 19 hours ago, california boy said: I don't know what you are talking about. The Mormon Church is the least liked Christian church in America. They are not in the middle. Every single other Christian church is more liked than the Mormon Church. That' isn't what those up-and-sown colored lines mean, and this is why there is no any reference to "least liked" in the expert assessment. Hmmm... maybe that is because that isn't what the survey was about or what the data says. Can you find a survey that is actually uncovers the least liked Christian denomination(s) in America? 1
CV75 Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 11 hours ago, Abulafia said: The large lettering? That's the way it copies over when I copy/paste. If you can tell me how to normalise size, great. It seemed to continue in large lettering even when I commented. Oh, I have read the Newsroom Article at least 3 times...And I just read it again... No. The Church hasn't changed, CV75, it's all just words. And you didn't respond specifically to each point. You just referred me back to the News Article. So again.. 1. Has the church ever conducted a survey to determine the extent of child abuse in church membership? 2. Does the church use screening forms for those working with children/vulnerable groups? 3. Will church leaders always call the police where a crime has been committed? Just a Yes/No answer will do. "The Risk Management department has never conducted a survey to determine the extent to which child sexual abuse happens within the church membership" "The church does not use screening forms with respect to church members who are called to work with children. They do not screen “because the church is founded on religious tenets and is governed by ecclesiastical leaders. It is not part of the program.” “Sexual abuse is a moral transgression and is dealt with in an ecclesiastical manner. It is a risk that is managed by the ecclesiastical leaders according to the scripture and tenets of the church. The actions the church leadership has taken with respect to the loss ultimates are adequate.” Just select the “Paste as plain text instead” option when copy-and-pasting, or copy onto a word document as plain text first, which may require the same option. What does “The Church hasn’t changed” related to anything? Limiting me to a “Yes/No” response is a bit rigid for a discussion board, don’t you think? I think the “How the LDS Approaches Abuse” is fair, and I find equivalent elements of your three tactics, and good number of others, in there: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/how-mormons-approach-abuse Survey: “The Church places an annotation on the membership record of any member who has previously abused children… [The bishop] is given clear direction that an individual who has abused children should not be given a position with children.” Screening: “The Church goes to great lengths to screen volunteers who work with children and youth.” Reporting: “We cooperate with law enforcement to report and investigate abuse.” …and there are several other significant measures that you haven’t mentioned, so I suspect you’re not the best person to advise the Church on improvements, and so I guess you’ll miss out on this: “The Church seeks continually to improve its program to prevent and stop abuse and foster healing and peace for the victims. We continue to look for ways to strengthen our proactive program to combat abuse and care for those whose lives have been harmed by this evil. As we identify new tactics or approaches that will decrease the potential for abuse, we will implement them.”
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 3 minutes ago, CV75 said: Just select the “Paste as plain text instead” option when copy-and-pasting, or copy onto a word document as plain text first, which may require the same option. What does “The Church hasn’t changed” related to anything? Limiting me to a “Yes/No” response is a bit rigid for a discussion board, don’t you think? I think the “How the LDS Approaches Abuse” is fair, and I find equivalent elements of your three tactics, and good number of others, in there: https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/how-mormons-approach-abuse Survey: “The Church places an annotation on the membership record of any member who has previously abused children… [The bishop] is given clear direction that an individual who has abused children should not be given a position with children.” Screening: “The Church goes to great lengths to screen volunteers who work with children and youth.” Reporting: “We cooperate with law enforcement to report and investigate abuse.” …and there are several other significant measures that you haven’t mentioned, so I suspect you’re not the best person to advise the Church on improvements, and so I guess you’ll miss out on this: “The Church seeks continually to improve its program to prevent and stop abuse and foster healing and peace for the victims. We continue to look for ways to strengthen our proactive program to combat abuse and care for those whose lives have been harmed by this evil. As we identify new tactics or approaches that will decrease the potential for abuse, we will implement them.” All words. Asking for yes/no..is quite simple. 1
CV75 Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 Just now, Abulafia said: All words. Asking for yes/no..is quite simple. But i'm not interested in further enabling your overly rigid approach to this conversation or this issue, especially without words. No words makes it nothing more than hysteria.
Abulafia Posted September 16, 2018 Author Posted September 16, 2018 They are simple questions. You won't respond because you know the answer is *no* to all 3. I believe that to be a problem no matter how many words are spoken against abuse. Back it up with real policy and practice change. It's not difficult. 1
Bernard Gui Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Abulafia said: They are simple questions. You won't respond because you know the answer is *no* to all 3. I believe that to be a problem no matter how many words are spoken against abuse. Back it up with real policy and practice change. It's not difficult. Are you privy to all the public and private practices of the Church pertaining to abuse? Yes or no, please. Edited September 16, 2018 by Bernard Gui 1
california boy Posted September 16, 2018 Posted September 16, 2018 3 hours ago, CV75 said: That' isn't what those up-and-sown colored lines mean, and this is why there is no any reference to "least liked" in the expert assessment. Hmmm... maybe that is because that isn't what the survey was about or what the data says. Can you find a survey that is actually uncovers the least liked Christian denomination(s) in America? I provided the link. The data is there. It doesn't need an explaination from me. There is no Christian church that falls below the Mormon Church.
Recommended Posts