Testimony in new prophet

[Atheist Mormon]

52 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I do mock your hobbies and would appreciate the same consideration. Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to a Furry convention.

You cannot mock me and live!!!!!!

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I do mock your hobbies and would appreciate the same consideration. Now, if you will excuse me, I am off to a Furry convention.

Silverback, weasel, or warthog?

[theplains]

23 hours ago, changed said:

Just wondering if everyone goes through a process of prayer, study, etc before gaining a testimony in the new prophet - or if everyone just relies on the organization's choice without much of thought of who they are now supporting?  What process do you go through before supporting new leadership?

Are you really going to leave the LDS Church if you don't get your testimony of him?

Jim

[Avatar4321]

On 5/4/2018 at 3:13 PM, changed said:

Just wondering if everyone goes through a process of prayer, study, etc before gaining a testimony in the new prophet - or if everyone just relies on the organization's choice without much of thought of who they are now supporting?  What process do you go through before supporting new leadership?

The Spirit told me that President Nelson would be the next prophet after President Packer does. I didn’t ask for the witness or seek it specifically. 

I have had witnesses of past prophets from reading their words.

for example I gained a testimony of Brigham Young and Joseph F Smith’s call when I studied their manuals.

get the Spirit. Act in faith. He will reveal His will to you

[Avatar4321]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

You cannot mock me and live!!!!!!

Well, he is still alive so clearly you are wrong:)

[changed]

23 hours ago, cinepro said:

As SouthernMo points out, we're really just asked about the keys he holds.  If we get too far beyond that, things get really dicey.

For example, I suspect there is a sizable portion of LDS who totally disagree with President Nelson about evolution and the creation process.  If they sat down with him face to face and discussed the issue, they would think he was totally wrong.  So, is it necessary to agree with President Nelson's statements (over the pulpit in General Conference) about evolution in order to sustain him as a "Prophet, Seer and Revelator"?

President Nelson also claimed the the 2015 policy regarding children with same-sex parents was the result of revelation.  But again, I suspect there is a good number of LDS who don't agree with that.  Are they able to sustain him while still disagreeing with him on that subject?

 

 

Yes, those points are concerning:

• Evolution - does the church still take no stance on this, or will there now be official doctrine on it?
• ...We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.... but we do believe in punishing children of LGBT parents for their parent's transgressions?
• Also polygamy - Nelson is sealed to more than one wife...

I need to listen to all of his previous conference talks and list everything I agree with too, but this is not some sort of a "list the pro's on one side and the cons on another" is it? 

If you do not have to agree with everything, and everyone defines "support" as they will?

Edited May 5, 2018 by changed

[changed]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

Are you really going to leave the LDS Church if you don't get your testimony of him?

Jim

 

Does anyone honestly go to the temple if they do not have a testimony of  the prophet?

There is a wide range of commitment levels to the church...

 

22 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

For me, I often just take it in stride. Consequently, you don't hear me bearing testimony about the prophet too often.  When I have been perplexed about a certain prophet or when I have just been studying I will gain a testimony about a certain prophet.  I am not one that has a testimony of every prophet in the Latter Days.  

My testimony of the Restoration does lead me to have faith that this is God's Church and that Jesus Christ is guiding it. 

 

I would hope that everyone is concerned about their testimony of God and the Savior, more than their testimony of any organized religious group or person... 

I do think the restoration is different than the current church - having a testimony in the early church does not really translate into a testimony of the current church, does it?  

 

19 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

I support them in their Church callings and offices without any process.  They are properly called by Church procedures and so questioning seems silly.

As for supporting their pronouncments...that takes a lot more prayer and study since I have disagreed with many leadership decisions in the past.

So no process for their callings, a lot of prayer and study for their actions.

 

Called by procedure, rather than revelation?  

 

18 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Listen a lot and pray a lot.

Straight up?  There have been a few who were NOT "confirmed" to me.  I am glad they did not decide to move the church to Missouri.  Yet I sustained them as the rightful leader of the church, just took what they said with a grain- or pound- of salt.

 

Sustain vs. believe and have a testimony of...  what exactly does it mean to sustain then?  

Sustain

verb (used with object)

1. to support, hold, or bear up from below; bear the weight of, as a structure.
2. to bear (a burden, charge, etc.).
3. to undergo, experience, or suffer (injury, loss, etc.); endure without giving way or yielding.
4. to keep (a person, the mind, the spirits, etc.) from giving way, as under trial or affliction.
5. to keep up or keep going, as an action or process:
to sustain a conversation.
6. to supply with food, drink, and other necessities of life.
7. to provide for (an institution or the like) by furnishing means or funds.

assist, bolster, buoy, continue, defend, help, nurse, preserve, save, aid, approve, back, bear, befriend, brace, buttress, carry, comfort, confirm, convey, endorse, favor, feed, foster, lug, nourish, nurture, pack, prolong, prop, protract, ratify, relieve, supply, support, tote, transfer, transport, uphold, validate, verify, go for, keep alive, keep from falling, keep going, lend a hand, provide for, shore up, 
stand by, stick up for, 

 

So, what do they say as a prophet, vs. what do they say as just a human?  What do we need to gain a testimony of?  each little thing that comes through?  

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by changed

[changed]

[mfbukowski]

18 minutes ago, changed said:

Sustain vs. believe and have a testimony of...  what exactly does it mean to sustain then?  

Sustain

verb (used with object)

1. to support, hold, or bear up from below; bear the weight of, as a structure.
2. to bear (a burden, charge, etc.).
3. to undergo, experience, or suffer (injury, loss, etc.); endure without giving way or yielding.
4. to keep (a person, the mind, the spirits, etc.) from giving way, as under trial or affliction.
5. to keep up or keep going, as an action or process:
to sustain a conversation.
6. to supply with food, drink, and other necessities of life.
7. to provide for (an institution or the like) by furnishing means or funds.

assist, bolster, buoy, continue, defend, help, nurse, preserve, save, aid, approve, back, bear, befriend, brace, buttress, carry, comfort, confirm, convey, endorse, favor, feed, foster, lug, nourish, nurture, pack, prolong, prop, protract, ratify, relieve, supply, support, tote, transfer, transport, uphold, validate, verify, go for, keep alive, keep from falling, keep going, lend a hand, provide for, shore up, 
stand by, stick up for, 

 

So, what do they say as a prophet, vs. what do they say as just a human?  What do we need to gain a testimony of?  each little thing that comes through?  

 

Yep sustain means all those things all right and that should answer your question right there!  You do all those things by "sustaining them" AS YOUR LEADER.

Notice the word "believe" does not appear in the list of what "sustain" means.  "Believing" is not a LEADERSHIP role- that is PROPHETIC role!

Everything they say to "believe" should be regarded as said by a human until the spirit confirms it is more than that. 

See?

We can learn LDS theology even from the dictionary.  !! 

 

 

Edited May 5, 2018 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Silverback, weasel, or warthog?

Anteater.

[changed]

4 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Yep sustain means all those things all right and that should answer your question right there!  You do all those things by "sustaining them" AS YOUR LEADER.

Notice the word "believe" does not appear in the list of what "sustain" means.  "Believing" is not a LEADERSHIP role- that is PROPHETIC role!

Everything they say to "believe" should be regarded as said by a human until the spirit confirms it is more than that. 

See?

We can learn LDS theology even from the dictionary.  !! 

 

 

 

Leader?  I guess I am just a rebellious soul - my loyalties lie with principles rather than people, do not want to follow the leader...  I can love a person though, is just loving them (the good, the bad, agree, disagree - does not matter).  Is just having love for someone enough?  

I might not agree with everything, might not follow everything, but I still love them - is that enough to constitute sustaining someone?  

Edited May 6, 2018 by changed

[Atheist Mormon]

5 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Well, he is still alive so clearly you are wrong:)

Don't I know.......😋

[The Nehor]

22 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Don't I know.......😋

If it makes you feel any better I was feeling awful at the time of your response so maybe it worked a little.

[mfbukowski]

36 minutes ago, changed said:

 

Leader?  I guess I am just a rebellious soul - my loyalties lie with principles rather than people, do not want to follow the leader...  I can love a person though, is just loving them (the good, the bad, agree, disagree - does not matter).  Is just having love for someone enough?  

I might not agree with everything, might not follow everything, but I still love them - is that enough to constitute sustaining someone?  

Well I am hardly the one to ask that, but it sounds good to me!

I sustain that view.

 

[Meerkat]

On 5/4/2018 at 1:13 PM, changed said:

Just wondering if everyone goes through a process of prayer, study, etc before gaining a testimony in the new prophet - or if everyone just relies on the organization's choice without much of thought of who they are now supporting?  What process do you go through before supporting new leadership?

I accept the process and the prophet in all cases.  I know God works with fallible humans to lead His Church.  By and large, I agree with the direction we receive.  When there are or have been mistakes, I forgive as I hope to be forgiven for the mistakes I make.  These are men.  As they settle into their new calling, and as time dissipates my strong feelings of support for the past president of the Church, I am more welcoming to the new prophet's inspired counsel.

In the case of President Nelson, the revelation came to me during his inspired conference talk "Revelation for the Church, Revelation for our Lives."

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2018/04/revelation-for-the-church-revelation-for-our-lives?lang=eng

Here is but one nugget from President Nelson's talk:

"You don’t have to wonder about what is true.¹¹ You do not have to wonder whom you can safely trust. Through personal revelation, you can receive your own witness that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph Smith is a prophet, and that this is the Lord’s Church. Regardless of what others may say or do, no one can ever take away a witness borne to your heart and mind about what is true.

I urge you to stretch beyond your current spiritual ability to receive personal revelation, for the Lord has promised that “if thou shalt [seek], thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, knowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the mysteries and peaceable things—that which bringeth joy, that which bringeth life eternal.”¹²

Oh, there is so much more that your Father in Heaven wants you to know. As Elder Neal A. Maxwell taught, “To those who have eyes to see and ears to hear, it is clear that the Father and the Son are giving away the secrets of the universe!”¹³

Nothing opens the heavens quite like the combination of increased purity, exact obedience, earnest seeking, daily feasting on the words of Christ in the Book of Mormon,¹⁴ and regular time committed to temple and family history work.

To be sure, there may be times when you feel as though the heavens are closed. But I promise that as you continue to be obedient, expressing gratitude for every blessing the Lord gives you, and as you patiently honor the Lord’s timetable, you will be given the knowledge and understanding you seek. Every blessing the Lord has for you—even miracles—will follow. That is what personal revelation will do for you."

I have received a personal revelation that President Russell M. Nelson is God's prophet on the earth today, and speaks in the name of the Lord.  I sustain him completely.  And I testify of him because God has given me this knowledge.  Russell M. Nelson is a true prophet.

[JLHPROF]

13 hours ago, changed said:

 Called by procedure, rather than revelation?  

The revelation calling them, if there ever was one, would be in their calling to the apostleship.  Again, following that call I see no need to question whether their succession to the Presidency of the Church by virtue of their seniority is correct.  They either are or are not the senior apostle.

If they were called by revelation any testimony sought should be done at the time of their original call as an apostle.  No new revelation is needed for them to become President.  Waiting till then to find a testimony would mean accepting the possibility that there is a different option among the apostles for the Presidency.

[Meerkat]

On 5/4/2018 at 2:38 PM, SouthernMo said:

Awesome question.  My only advice is to define your question very carefully.  While I think I understand the general intent of your question, I recently have been VERY carefully studying the words used in the current temple recommend question regarding my sustaining Russell M. Nelson.  The process has been difficult, but led me to the scriptures, study, and prayer.

"Do you sustain the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the Prophet, Seer, and Revelator and as the only person on the earth who possesses and is authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?"

It's a very personal journey.  BUT - keep going.  Do not stop until you get your answers.  Even then, keep going.

I'd give you a rep if I could.  I look forward to more of your comments.

[Stargazer]

On 5/4/2018 at 10:58 PM, JAHS said:

Whether we realize it or not we should have already gained that testimony the day the man was first made an Apostle. As he moves up in seniority he gains more respect as a church leader to the membership and by the time he becomes the president you have decided by then that you either accept him or you don't. 

Well, I was going to say something like this, but you beat me to it. Sort of.

I was baptized in 1966, and as of now, since the death of Thomas S. Monson, every single current member of the Q12 and FP was called to the Q12 during the period of my activity in the Church.  I have a very long baseline of observation of these men, especially the most senior ones, and I have long had a testimony that they have been called of God, and not only called, but qualified by Him.  From the moment President Nelson assumed the mantle I have had a strong, quiet feeling that the Lord's will has been done, and that He has called him to preside in the Church.  I guess I don't need some sort of especially striking testimony of this -- but perhaps for others it might be otherwise.  My needs are not necessarily theirs.

[Glenn101]

On 5/4/2018 at 7:11 PM, cinepro said:

As SouthernMo points out, we're really just asked about the keys he holds.  If we get too far beyond that, things get really dicey.

For example, I suspect there is a sizable portion of LDS who totally disagree with President Nelson about evolution and the creation process.  If they sat down with him face to face and discussed the issue, they would think he was totally wrong.  So, is it necessary to agree with President Nelson's statements (over the pulpit in General Conference) about evolution in order to sustain him as a "Prophet, Seer and Revelator"?

President Nelson also claimed the the 2015 policy regarding children with same-sex parents was the result of revelation.  But again, I suspect there is a good number of LDS who don't agree with that.  Are they able to sustain him while still disagreeing with him on that subject?

 

Do you?

 

[JayneAdelle]

On 5/4/2018 at 4:30 PM, The Nehor said:

I rip out the still beating heart of a virgin and spill the blood into my ritual bowl. Based on the patterns I decide whether to support the new prophet. I know it is unconventional but it works for me.

LOLOLOL!!! I'll have to try that. 

[Avatar4321]

9 hours ago, JayneAdelle said:

LOLOLOL!!! I'll have to try that. 

Wear gloves. Otherwise the police start hassling you 

[JayneAdelle]

7 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Wear gloves. Otherwise the police start hassling you 

Hey, no fair! Isn't that mixing church & state?? What ever happened to religious freedom?!

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, JayneAdelle said:

LOLOLOL!!! I'll have to try that. 

The only problem is that virgins are a vanishing species, male OR female.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

The only problem is that virgins are a vanishing species, male OR female.  

We had a report in one of national newspapers last night wondering what is causing our young people to increasingly remain virgins. It's apparently some kind of problem...

[Kenngo1969]

5 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The only problem is that virgins are a vanishing species, male OR female.  

If I volunteer to have my blood spilled, perhaps I can finally do someone some good, after all!