Preview of coming attractions? BSA, marriage, Temples

[Scott Lloyd]

19 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Yep.  Interesting, though, that this generalized belief is at odds with formal doctrines of most Christian groups ("Until death do you part" and all that).  Also consider Matthew 22:

It seems that "Marriage isn't forever" is a pretty common - perhaps even standard - doctrine outside of Mormonism.

See here:

And here:

And here:

And here:

But see here:

Interesting stuff.

Well, there are some scriptures that can be construed as indicating that marriages do not last into the eternities.

From and LDS perspective, we have D&C 132:7:

It's a matter of faith.

I tend to think of it this way: God has given His children a way to preserve their relationships with their loved ones.  Whether they choose to accept that way, and live in accordance with it, is up to them.

I think the doctrines of the LDS Church account for this.  Dad can be sealed to "that nice lady."  And if he keeps honors his covenants, then he has a marriage "entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise ... for time and all eternity."

There are some similarities, yes.

But there are also some very significant differences.

Unless, of course, the Mormons have it right.  If so, then a "mechanism" is needed.

Thanks,

-Smac

I was interested in this quote in particular:
 

Quote

 

So, I think it's safe to say you will see your wife again. Your question, however, is more specific: will your marriage continue in heaven?

Most Protestant commentators since the Reformation have not been comfortable going that far. However, there is an earlier strand of interpretation, from the first centuries of the church, that some find intriguing. It suggests that there is a special meaning to the marriage bond that continues in heaven, though we can't know what it will be like. It is based on Paul's description of marriage in Ephesians 5:21-33, which concludes: "This mystery is a profound one, and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church."

Scriptures like the Ephesians passage, and Jesus' well-known teaching that "the two will become one flesh" (Mark 10:8), suggest that the marriage bond has a spiritual meaning different from that of most earthly relationships. If so, God may preserve that mysterious quality in heaven just as he seeks to do on earth. But we'll have to wait and see what form this relationship will take in eternity. 

 

Interesting that there would be "an earlier strand of interpretation from the first centuries of the church" that more closely coincides with the latter-day restoration of the gospel on this point.

Sometimes, as a pastime, I read from The Ante-Nicene Fathers. I am very comfortable with their teachings, as though they were typical of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. My point is that the closer you get to the origins of Christianity, the more closely you find teachings that conform to the Restoration.

 

[Calm]

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Any children born in the first year would be born out of the covenant. Not ideal.

Hormone driven marriages are not a new phenomenon.

Also the possibility that the first year will be looked at as a trial period as a civil divorce is usually not seen as dramatic as a temple cancellation.

[nuclearfuels]

SORRY - FOrgot to ask in my original post -

When will couples be able to serve missions with thier kids in tow?  They'd have to be financially able to do so but other than that; why not?

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, nuclearfuels said:

SORRY - FOrgot to ask in my original post -

When will couples be able to serve missions with thier kids in tow?  They'd have to be financially able to do so but other than that; why not?

It is hard to have a companionship out doing the work when at least one of the parents has to be watching the kids.

Might be able to do something with newlyweds and then auto-release them if she gets pregnant but I don't think mission presidents want to do that much marriage counseling. They do enough already with the senior couples.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

SORRY - FOrgot to ask in my original post -

When will couples be able to serve missions with thier kids in tow?  They'd have to be financially able to do so but other than that; why not?

Mission presidents and their wives do it, it is a three year commitment.  It can be hard of the kids in terms of education and friends though.  If I had outgoing and adventuresome kids like my brother who has lived in Singapore and Australia and who takes them all over, I would find it a great learning experience.  My kids...well my five year old daughter hated the six months we lived in Russia, refused to ever speak to anyone speaking to her in Russian and most in English too (very shy, once she was home she spouted Russian phrases to her friends to show off though) and moving to Utah leaving her friends she had all her life (all 13 years) was the last straw that broke her sociality back.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I don't think mission presidents want to do that much marriage counseling. They do enough already with the senior couples.

Hmm...never considered that.  What kind of problems pop up? Do you know? Just the usual ones or are there unique ones for missions?

[Hamba Tuhan]

13 hours ago, e-eye said:

... most couples just struggle to stay worthy during the engagement ...

<sigh.>

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

What kind of problems pop up? Do you know? Just the usual ones or are there unique ones for missions?

We had a senior couple in my mission — serving their third — who’d been asked by the Church to prepare some guides for senior couples. This couple said many senior missionaries struggle, after a lifetime of mostly working apart, to work together 24 hours per day. I was surprised, but for some it makes sense. 

Edited May 2, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Amulek]

10 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

SORRY - FOrgot to ask in my original post -

When will couples be able to serve missions with thier kids in tow?  They'd have to be financially able to do so but other than that; why not?

My wife and I are friends with a couple, and her father served as a mission president when she was a kid. I can't remember how many of her siblings were still living at home during the mission, but I know it was more than just her. This would have been twenty or so years ago. I'm not sure how common it is now though.

 

[Amulek]

On 4/30/2018 at 2:13 PM, nuclearfuels said:

Several years ago, maybe 10+ years, there was talk about mini-Temples being created in levels other the main entry level of stake centers; wondering if this idea might come back?  Really I'm just looking for an excuse to goto Ireland and a Temple openhouse seems to be that opportunity; slainte!

You never know. I remember my father telling me that the church had considered plans (this would have been more than 30 - 40 years ago now) for 'single ordinance' temples (e.g., baptisms for the dead). I don't remember who his source was, unfortunately, but I believe it was a General Authority. 

[HappyJackWagon]

I've gotta think the relationship with BSA is going to continue to change until the church is all out. The church moves slowly, but I'm confident it will happen. Much more confident than the other "coming attraction" changes that have been mentioned.

Interestingly, the BSA recently announced they will be dropping the word "Boys" from BSA as more girls continue to join the ranks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607678097/boy-scouts-changing-name-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

[bsjkki]

10 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I've gotta think the relationship with BSA is going to continue to change until the church is all out. The church moves slowly, but I'm confident it will happen. Much more confident than the other "coming attraction" changes that have been mentioned.

Interestingly, the BSA recently announced they will be dropping the word "Boys" from BSA as more girls continue to join the ranks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607678097/boy-scouts-changing-name-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

At this point, I wish the leadership would just end scouts at church. This halfway in scouts and halfway out is not working. Nobody cares anymore and it is so frustrating to try and give the boys a quality program to what purpose...few Mormon boys are going to continue in scouts once they turn 14. Most adults think it’s all going to be abandoned at any moment. 

Here is another story on the name change. 

https://apnews.com/d3efeda8ffb74b79b367fce426780d6f/With-girls-joining-the-ranks,-Boy-Scouts-plan-a-name-change

Edited May 2, 2018 by bsjkki

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Hmm...never considered that.  What kind of problems pop up? Do you know? Just the usual ones or are there unique ones for missions?

Just marriage problems. Many senior couples were living separate lives to a degree. One was at home and one working all day. Suddenly they are together all day. Not all couples but enough that it could be a problem. I remember one awkward moment when a senior couple giving a presentation to a bunch of younger missionaries basically got into an argument over how to helpwith a reactivation they were were working on and it got pretty heated.

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Mission presidents and their wives do it, it is a three year commitment.  It can be hard of the kids in terms of education and friends though.  If I had outgoing and adventuresome kids like my brother who has lived in Singapore and Australia and who takes them all over, I would find it a great learning experience.  My kids...well my five year old daughter hated the six months we lived in Russia, refused to ever speak to anyone speaking to her in Russian and most in English too (very shy, once she was home she spouted Russian phrases to her friends to show off though) and moving to Utah leaving her friends she had all her life (all 13 years) was the last straw that broke her sociality back.

They do but it is different than serving. The Mission President’s wife is heavily involved in the Mission but it is not a 24/7 thing like the full-time missionaries so there is time to take care of the kids (though not a surplus....I have nothing but sympathy for the constraints they deal with). A couple called to proselyte would either need to have one work while the other stayed with the kids or they would need a full-time nanny.

[carbon dioxide]

On 4/30/2018 at 3:32 PM, rockpond said:

I don't think we'll end our BSA involvement within two years.  I think the Brethren will continue the "phase-out" by ceasing to enroll 8 year old boys in cubs.

I love the idea of creating endowment and sealing rooms in stake centers but I don't see anything that suggests we'll go in that direction.  Seems like we tried smaller temples but then went back to the big, glamorous edifices.

Polygamy isn't coming back.  We'll continue to practice eternal polygamy but avoid discussing it.  And we're still decades away from when I foresee gay marriage being accepted within the Church.

If i was to bet my retirement account, I would put all of it on polygamy coming back long before SSM being accepted in the church in terms of it being morally correct.  At least polygamy has scriptural and historical backing. 

[carbon dioxide]

The end of LDS church involvement of the scouts would be awesome.   No more callings that take way too much time out of the member schedule. 

[MormonMason]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:13 PM, nuclearfuels said:

... when you attend the Temple, don't the Sisters outnumber the Brothers by a factor of 3 to 1, on average?

My wife already has given her consent.  It won't happen unless we get a call from the First Presidency or I outlive her but she already consented some years ago.  Could happen in our lifetime or it won't.  No issues either way.

[e-eye]

On 5/2/2018 at 12:15 AM, Hamba Tuhan said:

<sigh.>

Being attracted to your future spouse is a good thing.  The temptation is part of the plan of why we are here.  The influence of the world on the sacredness of intimacy is the real problem.  The desire to righteously procreate is from God and a righteous desire.

[nuclearfuels]

On 5/2/2018 at 10:52 AM, bsjkki said:

At this point, I wish the leadership would just end scouts at church. This halfway in scouts and halfway out is not working. Nobody cares anymore and it is so frustrating to try and give the boys a quality program to what purpose...few Mormon boys are going to continue in scouts once they turn 14. Most adults think it’s all going to be abandoned at any moment. 

Here is another story on the name change. 

https://apnews.com/d3efeda8ffb74b79b367fce426780d6f/With-girls-joining-the-ranks,-Boy-Scouts-plan-a-name-change

 

On 5/2/2018 at 7:05 PM, carbon dioxide said:

The end of LDS church involvement of the scouts would be awesome.   No more callings that take way too much time out of the member schedule. 

 

On 5/2/2018 at 10:52 AM, bsjkki said:

At this point, I wish the leadership would just end scouts at church. This halfway in scouts and halfway out is not working. Nobody cares anymore and it is so frustrating to try and give the boys a quality program to what purpose...few Mormon boys are going to continue in scouts once they turn 14. Most adults think it’s all going to be abandoned at any moment. 

Here is another story on the name change. 

https://apnews.com/d3efeda8ffb74b79b367fce426780d6f/With-girls-joining-the-ranks,-Boy-Scouts-plan-a-name-change

 

On 5/2/2018 at 10:42 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

I've gotta think the relationship with BSA is going to continue to change until the church is all out. The church moves slowly, but I'm confident it will happen. Much more confident than the other "coming attraction" changes that have been mentioned.

Interestingly, the BSA recently announced they will be dropping the word "Boys" from BSA as more girls continue to join the ranks.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/05/02/607678097/boy-scouts-changing-name-to-scouts-bsa-as-girls-welcomed-into-program

Is it wrong for me to laugh at their plummeting enrollment and donations?

"That which is falling deserves to be pushed."

-Nietzsche

 

[The Nehor]

On 5/2/2018 at 6:05 PM, carbon dioxide said:

The end of LDS church involvement of the scouts would be awesome.   No more callings that take way too much time out of the member schedule. 

How would that get rid of bishops?

[The Nehor]

21 hours ago, nuclearfuels said:

Is it wrong for me to laugh at their plummeting enrollment and donations?

"That which is falling deserves to be pushed."

-Nietzsche

 

Sounds smart. I should follow everything this guy has said. What could possibly go wrong?

[nuclearfuels]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Sounds smart. I should follow everything this guy has said. What could possibly go wrong?

Or you could contribute to the BSA outside of the LDS Church

Nothing wrong with that.

Maybe they'd like to learn more about your NCMO merit badge?