They just don't make miracles like they used to

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

My wife likes cold air. I would rather it be warm. She wins

You can always put on more clothes.

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, mrmarklin said:

The miracles you describe in the Bible took place over centuries. Hardly everyday events. 

Christ’s miracles are the exception, but largely witnessed by a very small circle of disciples.  Mostly only publicized by the gospel writers themselves..

 

i consider the Seagull miracle experienced by the Utah pioneers on a level of any in the Bible. One of those every hundred years or so and people two thousand years hence will wonder how come there are not enough miracles. 

 

Of course we are all so jaded as to miracles.  Witness the cell phone you can no longer live without. And the calling is almost the least of its capabilities. 

The seagull miracle, is a myth. http://holyfetch.com/the-miracle-of-the-seagulls/

[Bernard Gui]

One big problem I’ve experienced is that if you are in the wrong time or place or with the wrong people when you share a miracle that you have witnessed, rather than rejoicing with them you end up defending yourself from their skeptical and cynical attempts to explain it away to other causes and to convince you it was deception or just mere coincidence.

That might have happened a few times even here on Mormon Dialogue.  

It makes one think twice before sharing again.

 

 

 

[The Nehor]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

One big problem I’ve experienced is that if you are in the wrong time or place or with the wrong people when you share a miracle that you have witnessed, rather than rejoicing with them you end up defending yourself from their skeptical and cynical attempts to explain it away to other causes and to convince you it was deception or just mere coincidence.

That might have happened a few times even here on Mormon Dialogue.  

It makes one think twice before sharing again.

 

 

 

I do not blame them for the behavior. Accepting what you say as truth means having to reevaluate a lot of their worldview. I like C.S. Lewis’s take on miracles. If you start from the basic precept that they cannot happen then any explanation that explains it away up to mass hallucination or hypnosis or psychosis or whatever is more likely than miracle. If you accept that miracles can occur then it becomes a question of how likely an event is to be a miracle.

I have annoyed other LDS by suggesting something they consider to be miraculous might, in fact, not be a miracle. I mostly stopped making such suggestions because they would jump on my lack of faith as the reason I did not believe angels were visiting their bathroom and rearranging their mirrors.

[hope_for_things]

29 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

The seagull miracle, is a myth. http://holyfetch.com/the-miracle-of-the-seagulls/

Its nice that we have modern examples that show how it doesn't take long for these exaggerated myths to form.   It makes it easier to understand how traditions developed in the ancient past.  

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Someone sweeping your drive for you is a supernatural miracle? Seriously? When there’s a world full of starving people, abused children etc your bar for something miraculous is a neighbour or ward member sweeping your drive? (Please don’t tell me you think it was the three Nephites).

You have got to be joking.

A lot of "miracles" are quite marginal, and often very touching.  My eyes teared up big-time when I watched this, but do you understand why?

 

[Garden Girl]

1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said:

I guess there wasn’t an official photo opp and nobody had brought the helping hands vests...

The difference between you and those General Authorities is that it pricked your conscience and you responded. They didn’t give him a second thought as they went to work on their talks about how members need to be helping the poor and the needy like Christ did.

Hello Marginal (on a beautiful, welcome, sunny morning here in the Pacific Northwest)...

I should just let this go (and in the future when it comes to you I will just let you blather on) but your biased, even mean, cynicism here is just too much... And, you have absolutely no idea...  none... whether or not any of those general authorities help the poor and needy.  I have three charities outside of the Church that I regularly contribute to financially... and a couple local ones that I give of my personal time and efforts.  You don't know what these general authorities do for the poor and needy, but you set yourself up as their judge without any factual basis for your statements, other than a desire to criticize and belittle... so... so be it... knock yourself out... it's perfectly obvious you aren't interested in reality... 

I mentioned our beautiful morning here... welcome after heavy winds and rain... I really do hope you are having a good morning also... and that your day will bring happiness... I'm about to start making a big green tossed salad to take up to the Church for an after-funeral meal we are serving for a family that just lost their son (an inactive family btw).  But we can provide a meal and space for them to gather together at this difficult time...

all good wishes... from the beach... GG

 

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

I guess there wasn’t an official photo opp and nobody had brought the helping hands vests...

The difference between you and those General Authorities is that it pricked your conscience and you responded. They didn’t give him a second thought as they went to work on their talks about how members need to be helping the poor and the needy like Christ did.

So you can read minds now?  Could be they just don't carry any cash on them; I know I don't; just debit and credit cards. I haven't had a dollar in my wallet for months.
They all pay their tithing and fast offerings just like the rest of the members; including humanitarian aid.  But of course if they came out in public and announced all the donations they give so people like you would know about it, they would be accused of not giving their alms in secret as the scriptures say. 

[ElPatron]

1 hour ago, Garden Girl said:

Hello Marginal (on a beautiful, welcome, sunny morning here in the Pacific Northwest)...

I should just let this go (and in the future when it comes to you I will just let you blather on) but your biased, even mean, cynicism here is just too much... And, you have absolutely no idea...  none... whether or not any of those general authorities help the poor and needy.  I have three charities outside of the Church that I regularly contribute to financially... and a couple local ones that I give of my personal time and efforts.  You don't know what these general authorities do for the poor and needy, but you set yourself up as their judge without any factual basis for your statements, other than a desire to criticize and belittle... so... so be it... knock yourself out... it's perfectly obvious you aren't interested in reality... 

I mentioned our beautiful morning here... welcome after heavy winds and rain... I really do hope you are having a good morning also... and that your day will bring happiness... I'm about to start making a big green tossed salad to take up to the Church for an after-funeral meal we are serving for a family that just lost their son (an inactive family btw).  But we can provide a meal and space for them to gather together at this difficult time...

all good wishes... from the beach... GG

 

So this is the rub....and again, I scream Hypocrisy with my post. I’m sure all of them contribute financially somehow to helping the poor if at least through fast offerings. They, I’m sure had a VERY long day and we’re probably longing for their bed.  I have so doubt that they contribute a lot of their time to many causes to assist those in need but my struggle was this; here was the majority of the leadership of the Priesthood of God on the earth as we know it, walking past those who could stand to be healed of their infirmities. Why don’t we or why can’t we do that anymore? Why can’t/won’t we command someone to “take up thy bed” and walk? Or can we?  I for one do not have the faith to try this. 

[Jeanne]

To me, miracles are in the things that do not happen..and things we may not even know..had they not been intervened.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

I guess there wasn’t an official photo opp and nobody had brought the helping hands vests...

The difference between you and those General Authorities is that it pricked your conscience and you responded. They didn’t give him a second thought as they went to work on their talks about how members need to be helping the poor and the needy like Christ did.

Yes, let the hate flow through you!

[Marginal Gains]

1 hour ago, ElPatron said:

So this is the rub....and again, I scream Hypocrisy with my post. I’m sure all of them contribute financially somehow to helping the poor if at least through fast offerings. They, I’m sure had a VERY long day and we’re probably longing for their bed.  I have so doubt that they contribute a lot of their time to many causes to assist those in need but my struggle was this; here was the majority of the leadership of the Priesthood of God on the earth as we know it, walking past those who could stand to be healed of their infirmities. Why don’t we or why can’t we do that anymore? Why can’t/won’t we command someone to “take up thy bed” and walk? Or can we?  I for one do not have the faith to try this. 

I think that’s an interesting question, when was the last time a General Authority actually spent time miraculously healing people?

Edited April 19, 2018 by Marginal Gains

[Lemuel]

1 hour ago, ElPatron said:

So this is the rub....and again, I scream Hypocrisy with my post. I’m sure all of them contribute financially somehow to helping the poor if at least through fast offerings. They, I’m sure had a VERY long day and we’re probably longing for their bed.  I have so doubt that they contribute a lot of their time to many causes to assist those in need but my struggle was this; here was the majority of the leadership of the Priesthood of God on the earth as we know it, walking past those who could stand to be healed of their infirmities. Why don’t we or why can’t we do that anymore? Why can’t/won’t we command someone to “take up thy bed” and walk? Or can we?  I for one do not have the faith to try this. 

When [St. Dominic] was in Rome, seeking authorization for his order from the Pope, the Pope gave him a tour of the treasures of the Vatican, and remarked complacently (referring to Acts 3:6), "Peter can no longer say, 'Silver and gold have I none.'" Dominic turned and looked straight at the Pope, and said, "No, and neither can he say, 'Rise and walk.'"

http://justus.anglican.org/resources/bio/221.html

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have annoyed other LDS by suggesting something they consider to be miraculous might, in fact, not be a miracle. I mostly stopped making such suggestions because they would jump on my lack of faith as the reason I did not believe angels were visiting their bathroom and rearranging their mirrors.

Angels in the reading room fiddling with my mirrors aren’t exactly what I had in mind.

I have learned by sad experience not to share here and elsewhere things that would better be reserved for more private, respectful, and needful situations.

 

[rongo]

My family cultivates a strong faith in the same powerful miracles of the past (19th century church, ancient scripture). We have seen and witnessed things that give us confidence in these things being possible. I think to a large extent, the Church as a whole (meaning leaders on down to rank-and-file members) don't expect or look for such things, and they largely get what they look for and expect. I think that most active members believe in the potential in theory, as a thought exercise, but not really in practical terms in the here and now. I also think that they prefer (whether conscious of this or not) powerful miracles to be safely in the distant past. Many, while claiming that they want miracles today, really don't --- but they themselves aren't aware of this. They think they want them, but they really don't. Not really. 

I think this flame will be nurtured and preserved by individual families within the Church. 

[pogi]

22 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

(1) great time depth and the telescoping of history gives the impression of frequent "miracles," when they were actually quite unusual and scattered over long periods.

I was going to make this point as well.  The church is not even 200 years old and already we have seen the visitation of God himself, countless angels witnessed by many, miraculous verbatim dictation/translation of the entire Book of Mormon while Joseph's face was deep in a hat looking in to a rock, revelations, healings...

Also, most of these "miracles" of the Bible were not witnessed by large audiences, rather they were experienced by a few and recorded; such as Daniel in the lions den, most of Jesus' miracles, Jonah, Noah, etc.  

[JAHS]

3 minutes ago, pogi said:

23 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

(1) great time depth and the telescoping of history gives the impression of frequent "miracles," when they were actually quite unusual and scattered over long periods.

I was going to make this point as well.  The church is not even 200 years old and already we have seen the visitation of God himself, countless angels witnessed by many, miraculous verbatim dictation/translation of the entire Book of Mormon while Joseph's face was deep in a hat looking in to a rock, revelations, healings...

Also, most of these "miracles" of the Bible were not witnessed by large audiences, rather they were experienced by a few and recorded; such as Daniel in the lions den, most of Jesus' miracles, Jonah, Noah, etc.  

I think this is one of the best answers to the main question. With regards to miracles of great magnitude we are probably good now for another couple hundred years or until the second coming. 
In the mean time people will continue to see their own private miracles happening within their own lifetimes. 

[strappinglad]

Consider a couple of NT miracles. The feeding of the multitude: I suggest that the majority of the people there were unaware of the miracle. They only knew they were fed and they returned just to get fed again. They likely didn't see the bread and fish replicate before their eyes.

 The healing of the 10 lepers: Only one came back to give thanks. The other 9 knew they were healed but apparently could not care less about how or by whom and gave neither thanks nor glory unto the Father as far as we know.

People can be so oblivious , and selfish.

Of all the spiritual gifts, which is the greatest?

Edited April 19, 2018 by strappinglad

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

I think that’s an interesting question, when was the last time a General Authority actually spent time miraculously healing people?

When was the last time you spent a week shadowing a General Authority on their trips around the world and sat in on private blessings? That would be in private, intimate surroundings, to which neither you nor I have access, as Jesus has commanded. 

On the other hand, healing blessings are given many times every day by the Priesthood. Every fast Sunday members in our ward give thanks for them. Perhaps the numbers of healings should be made part of the Church statistical reports? We could even feature them on BYU TV like Benny and others. 

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Consider a couple of NT miracles. The feeding of the multitude: I suggest that the majority of the people there were unaware of the miracle. They only knew they were fed and they returned just to get fed again. They likely didn't see the bread and fish replicate before their eyes.

 The healing of the 10 lepers: Only one came back to give thanks. The other 9 knew they were healed but apparently could not care less about how or by whom and gave neither thanks nor glory unto the Father as far as we know.

People can be so oblivious , and selfish.

Of all the spiritual gifts, which is the greatest?

Gonna go with the ability to move a mountain.....on top of your annoying neighbor.

[strappinglad]

50 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Gonna go with the ability to move a mountain.....on top of your annoying neighbor

Mountains fall on the just and the unjust. Watch out for collateral damage !

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Mountains fall on the just and the unjust. Watch out for collateral damage !

I am mediocre so I think I am safe from being in either category so I should be safe.  

[Storm Rider]

On ‎4‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 5:54 PM, JAHS said:

Noah's flood; the plagues of Egypt; the parting of the Red sea; Sodom and Gomorrah; the walls of Jericho; Serpent healing Israelites; Sun and moon standing still; Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the fire;
Daniel and the Lions den; Jonah in belly of fish; Jesus turning water into wine; raising a man from the dead; Walking on water, feeding 4,000, etc

We claim we have the fullness of the Gospel now along with Prophets, Apostles, and the priesthood. And yes we do see some miracles of healing and crickets eating locusts and other things we can call miracles that are either answers to prayers or priesthood blessings.  
But why do we not today see these big more dramatic displays that affect a much larger audience of people like there were in the Old and New Testaments and even the Book of Mormon times?
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly. Could mis-translations have caused the stories to be exaggerated?
Do we simply not need to see those kinds of miracles in our day?  
I know there are those who don't take such scripture stories literally, but this question is more for those who do accept them as real and actual occurrences.
 

I think back to the children of Israel brought out of bondage from Egypt. They consistently saw great miracles:  manna from heaven, water gushing out of a rock, flocks of quail, etc.  The miracles were then much less often. As we see the time of the Savior he performed great miracles. During the time of the Restoration there were miracles also.  After each epic period of great spiritual manifestations the great miracles performed before the eyes of many became much less often or rare.  

I don't think that this means that humanity entered a period of a loss of faith, but rather the opposite.  Humanity was to learn to live by their faith without great miracles.  You will see even during times of great miracles, when people are compelled to be obedient, they were not people of great faith.  It was afterwards that great faith was evident out of necessity, imo.  

I believe that miracles still occur.  They are found in very personal discoveries of faith to the healing of individuals; however, they are quiet, private experiences that are not seen by the world.  This follows after the examples we see in history.   

[Festus]

When you ask where the miracles are, some say we don't need them.     Yet we sure like to brag about them as evidence we have the true church with special powers from God that others do not have.

So supposedly, the miracles we see in today's church should be something not found elsewhere.        If modern technology is miraculous, and divinely inspired, atheists should have no part of the developments, right?

It would be interesting to do a study on priesthood blessings.    Form two groups: 100 current, worthy priesthood holders, and 100 excommunicated former priesthood holders.     Have everyone give blessings and compare results.

The only problem with expecting miracles is the guilt when it doesn't happen.     What happens when a dad gives a sick child a blessing to recover and he/she dies?

Years ago my brother and dad prayed and were supposedly inspired to bless a dying man in the hospital to recover and live a long life.     He died a few hours later.      My brother said he was confused and talked to his SP, who told him to just put that experience in a locked box and throw away the key.

In other words, when things go right, call them miracles, and when they don't, forget about it.      And that is how we build faith, by ignoring half the evidence.

Seems a bit dishonest.

[Robert F. Smith]

17 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

.....................................................

I believe that miracles still occur.  They are found in very personal discoveries of faith to the healing of individuals; however, they are quiet, private experiences that are not seen by the world.  This follows after the examples we see in history.   

Yes, and how about "Godwinks"?  Events however small that involve us directly in real miracles: