Where do UFOs and Aliens fit in your religious beliefs?

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

The Bible is clear no aliens or Martians 

 

 

By that same token the Bible is also clear that there are no planets outside this solar system. The exoplanets we are finding are clearly illusions created by devils with nothing better to do.

[Freedom]

1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said:

Plenty in the Book of Mormon

2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God,   without end. Amen.

 

Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God,  to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

 

 

Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God,  in a state of happiness which hath no end.

 

The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God.  Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris

 

1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.

Notice that the Bible mentions three holy's when referring to the Almighty God

Revelation 4:8

 And each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around and within. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord God Almighty, who was and is and is to come!"

Isaiah 6:3

3 And one called to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;

the whole earth is full of his glory!”

And if you notice that the Creed you are referring to says Jesus was inferior to the Father when he became man on line 33 

 

again, there is a huge difference between the doctrine of one god and the trinity where they are on in person. You assume that because you make 'one god' synonymous with 'one person' that the bible teaches the trinity. This is not the case. One God is defined in the bible: John 17:22 that they may be one, even as we are one. So we must be one in the same way that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one. One in purpose. Stop trying to impose your teachings from the creeds onto the scriptures. You are welcome to believe them but do not suppose that the bible or the book of mormon teaches them with the clarity that you suppose. They do not. 

This is the same problem with presuming that 'create' means 'create out of nothing'. God is not a purpose, but a title. This is why Stephen could see both at his martyrdom, this is why all three were present in different locations when Jesus was baptized. One God, three separate individuals. 

 

 

[JLHPROF]

On 12/20/2017 at 8:59 PM, Bobbieaware said:

Can you not see how some might think ministers from a post-resurrection terrestrial kingdom visiting others who inhabit a telestial world of glory might seem very much like aliens visiting intelligent life-forms on a world other that their own?

I can see how people might think many things.
I don't believe God allows man made means of travel between Telestial and Terrestrial and Celestial worlds/kingdoms.
If it were that easy we'd all build ships to the Celestial Kingdom.

I also don't believe there is any form of intelligent life other than human.

[Josh Khinder]

40 minutes ago, Freedom said:

again, there is a huge difference between the doctrine of one god and the trinity where they are on in person. You assume that because you make 'one god' synonymous with 'one person' that the bible teaches the trinity. This is not the case. One God is defined in the bible: John 17:22 that they may be one, even as we are one. So we must be one in the same way that God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost are one. One in purpose. Stop trying to impose your teachings from the creeds onto the scriptures. You are welcome to believe them but do not suppose that the bible or the book of mormon teaches them with the clarity that you suppose. They do not. 

This is the same problem with presuming that 'create' means 'create out of nothing'. God is not a purpose, but a title. This is why Stephen could see both at his martyrdom, this is why all three were present in different locations when Jesus was baptized. One God, three separate individuals. 

 

 

Not one Traditional Christians says one in person, they might say 3 persons in ONE GOD , your are describing monarchism a heresy to a Tradition Christianity 

 

http://C***.org/heresies

 

 

 

[Freedom]

32 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

Not one Traditional Christians says one in person, they might say 3 persons in ONE GOD , your are describing monarchism a heresy to a Tradition Christianity 

 

http://C***.org/heresies

 

 

 

You are splitting hairs. When you use terms like consubstantial, you are arguing for a god that is three in one person. If you are arguing for a God that is on of one substance, essence and nature, it is one person. Nowhere in the bible does it teach that the three are one essence and substance.

Edited December 23, 2017 by Freedom

[Bobbieaware]

14 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I can see how people might think many things.
I don't believe God allows man made means of travel between Telestial and Terrestrial and Celestial worlds/kingdoms.
If it were that easy we'd all build ships to the Celestial Kingdom.

I also don't believe there is any form of intelligent life other than human.

The mode of travel is inconsequential because a very highly advanced civilization, like the one our earth will likely host toward the end of the millennium, might very well have the technology to be able to travel between planets, and even other solar systems,, as easily as we now travel between countries. The point is that scriptures appear to indicate intelligent beings of flesh and bone will visit less advanced intelligent corporeal beings on other worlds. So whether one wants to speak of such travel between worlds as angelic ministrations or peaceful and productive close encounters with aliens from more advanced civilizations on other worlds, in the end we’re basically talking about the same thing.

[Josh Khinder]

22 minutes ago, Freedom said:

You are splitting hairs. When you use terms like consubstantial, you are arguing for a god that is three in one person. If you are arguing for a God that is on of one substance, essence and nature, it is one person. Nowhere in the bible does it teach that the three are one essence and substance.

This Lutheran Catechism spells your error plainly

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, and Greek  Homoousios   Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that  to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

 

Homoousios Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

[Freedom]

5 minutes ago, Josh Khinder said:

This Lutheran Catechism spells your error plainly

There were two major Latin words involved. The first is substantia, and Greek  Homoousios   Although the word was idiomatically to mean “goods” or “property” and in a legal sense to denote “ that  to which two or more parties could share legal claim,” there never was never much doubt as to what the Church Fathers intended when using substantia was simply the being of God. Thus to say , with the Latin orthodox theologians, that Father,Son, and Spirit were consubstantialis was to say that they shared the same basic “thing” or “what” that they were: namely, they were God.

 

Homoousios Godhead, God, substance Essence and Being all synonyms

A whole lot of splitting hairs. Nowhere is anything in that poster found in the bible. Nowhere in the book of mormon or the bible do we find creation ex nihilo. This teaching is an attempt to fit a contradictory doctrine into the bible. Since we are to become one as God is one, are we to become on essence, just appearing as billions of different people? You can believe what you want, but your doctrine is not found in the scriptures, and please stop claiming that it is found in the scriptures of the restored gospel.  

[cdowis]

6 hours ago, snowflake said:

Wrong, according to genesis chapter 1 the stars were created on day 4 ¹⁶ And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

greater light -- sun,     lessor light == moon.  The moon rules the night sky, not the stars.

Again, stars, other planets, universe day 4.

My KJV Bible does not say that.  In fact, no mention of planets anywhere in my version of the Bible  

Other races of mankind, what are you talking about?

Inhabitants of other planets, as mentioned in latter day revelation.  "Race" -- of course they would be in the image of God.

What latter day revelation talks about the creation week?

Book of Moses, Book of Abraham, among others.  They also speak of the spiritual creation prior to the physical creation.

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/moses?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/abr?lang=eng

 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by cdowis

[cdowis]

6 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Ex Nihilo mentioned in the Book of Mormon and the Bible 

Jacob 4:9 For behold, by the power of his a word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the dearth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?

Psalm 33:9: For he spoke, and it came to be; he commanded, and it stood firm.

 

I speak and my wife fixes my dinner.  

God speaks and the elements obey,   You forgot Helaman 12 [8] For behold, the dust of the earth moveth hither and thither, to the dividing asunder, at the command of our great and everlasting God.

Having read the Book of Mormon many times throughout my life, I am very familiar with what it says and teaches.  

 

[Josh Khinder]

11 minutes ago, cdowis said:

I speak and my wife fixes my dinner.  

God speaks and the elements obey,   You forgot Helaman 12 [8] For behold, the dust of the earth moveth hither and thither, to the dividing asunder, at the command of our great and everlasting God.

Having read the Book of Mormon many times throughout my life, I am very familiar with what it says and teaches.  

 

I'm sure the Everlasting God is Jesus there, right if you have read the Book of Mormon many times ?

Moroni 7:22 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting , behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

 

2 Nephi 27:23

 For behold, I am god; and I am a God of miracles; and I will show unto the world that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and I work not among the children of men save it be according to their faith.

2 Nephi 29:9

 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

 Moroni 8:18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity.

 

 Mormon 9:9 For do we not read that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever , and in him there is no variableness neither shadow of changing?

Mormon 9:19

 And if there were miracles wrought then, why has God ceased to be a God of miracles and yet be an unchanging Being? And behold, I say unto you he changeth not; if so he would cease to be God; and he ceaseth not to be God, and is a God of miracles.”

 2 Nephi 19:9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

Moroni 7:22

 For behold, God knowing all things, being from everlasting to everlasting, behold, he sent angels to minister unto the children of men, to make manifest concerning the coming of Christ; and in Christ there should come every good thing.

 

 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them; D&C 20:17

If you notice the D&C section 20 is a almost word for word plagiarized Nicaea Creed not just 17 but many verse surrounding it . 

 

Edited December 23, 2017 by Josh Khinder

[Freedom]

1 hour ago, Josh Khinder said:

I'm sure the Everlasting God is Jesus there, right if you have read the Book of Mormon many times ?

 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them; D&C 20:17

If you notice the D&C section 20 is a almost word for word plagiarized Nicaea Creed not just 17 but many verse surrounding it . 

 

Since 'One God' has been explained to you, and the the absence of the trinity and creation ex nihilio from the bible has been reveled to you, surely you would have stopped creating a straw man argument by forcing your non biblical beliefs onto the Book of Mormon. It would be helpful of you put the passages from the creed along side Section 20 so show where it is plagiarized so that we can have an intelligent conversation rather than just guessing what you are referring to. Your fundamental obstacle is that you have created a definition of God and are just assuming that your definition is correct and accepted by everyone, and then you set about imposing this definition on the a religious book in which you do not even belief. Not only that, you act as if you are the only one here who has read the Book of Mormon and assume that you are getting it right.  

[cipriano]

Here is a great book written by an LDS author

https://www.amazon.com/Alien-Encounters-Deception-James-Thompson/dp/0882905163/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1514023376&sr=8-3&keywords=alien+deception

The first time I saw this book back in the late 90's I was an X-Files fanatic, and I was insulted by the premise. How close minded could a person be, I wondered.

Now, twenty years later, and having been around the block a few times, I think he might be more right than wrong!

[Bernard Gui]

On 12/21/2017 at 1:53 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Based on our current understanding of methods of space travel, you would be right.  But we do not know much about the universe and natural law.  An advanced civilization would presumably have methods which are far beyond our understanding.

Or they have Spacing Guild Navigators who can fold space.

I remember an event in my hometown Los Alamos, New Mexico, when I was a teenager. LA is built on the mesas on the east side of the Jemez Mountains and looks across the Rio Grande Valley to the Sangre de Cristo Mountains above Santa Fe. Many homes are built facing that direction because the view is spectacular. One evening a lab scientist was sitting in his living room gazing at the view when he observed a moving light over the Sangre de Cristos that he assumed was an airplane. It was making angled turns and accelerating in such an usual way that he started paying close attention to it. He was able to plot the motions on the grid of his window panes and came to the conclusion that no modern aircraft could possibly make such maneuvers. It made quite a stir in the local paper for a week or so. Other people saw it too, but he was the only one who made that kind of observation. I don’t recall it getting any serious investigation.

My religious beliefs allow for other planets that are populated with beings similar to us; however, I don’t see any way a technology can exist that would allow them to project themselves in vehicles over the humongous distances of space. The energy requirements and physical deprivations would be insurmountable. I do believe God and His associates have the means to travel though space and time, but what that could possibly be......? As Alma said, these mysteries have not fully been made known to me, therefore I shall forbear. Or maybe not....

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=AwrS32FipT5a8DUA0DS5mWRH;_ylu=X3oDMTBzYmZpbnA0BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMjU-?p=guild+navigator&vid=eb38c22c34141707c0ad010e20729b52&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.g0QjBPtRiMUD4SCQi89SeAEsCo%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D168%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Do-q1WrY27Z8&***=Dune%3A+Spacing+Guild+Heighliner+-+Spacedock&c=24&h=168&w=300&l=189&sigr=11b2ja1eo&sigt=11aeb945k&sigi=12r9945jq&age=1497814824&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=ipad&vm=r&tt=b

Edited December 26, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Anakin7]

     Late to this thread party, anyway I have a friend in my Ward who worked for JPL and I Believe N.A.S.A  [ He is mostly a serious individual but does kid around on occasion] but privately he told me several years ago he was in a meeting with some top scientists from around the country and the speaker made a comment about The U.S having Ion engines, an individual raised his hand to ask - "we have Ion engines, Star Trek ?", the speaker stated that they do not tell The President of The U.S "everything". My LDS friend in my ward also told me that he has seen "The Ship", I asked from where ?, he said lets just say it's not from this planet. He also told me he has seen those who were in "The Ship", I forgot if he said they were still alive or passed on but he did tell me that they look like us but different. I asked him how could this be due to the distance, and his statement guess was if there were beings thousands of years older than us in technology they would have no problem traveling by bending time holes in the fabric to do so.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior.

[Jeanne]

3 minutes ago, Anakin7 said:

     Late to this thread party, anyway I have a friend in my Ward who worked for JPL and I Believe N.A.S.A  [ He is mostly a serious individual but does kid around on occasion] but privately he told me several years ago he was in a meeting with some top scientists from around the country and the speaker made a comment about The U.S having Ion engines, an individual raised his hand to ask - "we have Ion engines, Star Trek ?", the speaker stated that they do not tell The President of The U.S "everything". My LDS friend in my ward also told me that he has seen "The Ship", I asked from where ?, he said lets just say it's not from this planet. He also told me he has seen those who were in "The Ship", I forgot if he said they were still alive or passed on but he did tell me that they look like us but different. I asked him how could this be due to the distance, and his statement guess was if there were beings thousands of years older than us in technology they would have no problem traveling by bending time holes in the fabric to do so.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment In His Blood

In His Eternal Debt/Grace

Anakin7

LDS Sentinel, Son Of Thunder, Kryptonian, Warrior.

You just gave me the heebie jeebies...

[rodheadlee]

WHat

On 12/23/2017 at 10:17 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Or they have Spaing Guild Navigators who can fold space.

I remember an event in my hometown Los Alamos, New Mexico, when I was a teenager. LA is built on the mesas on the east side of the Jemez Mountains and looks across the Rio Grande Valley to the Sangre de Cristo Mountains above Santa Fe. Many homes are built facing that direction because the view is spectacular. One evening a lab scientist was sitting in his living room gazing at the view when he observed a moving light over the Sangre de Cristos that he assumed was an airplane. It was making angled turns and accelerating in such an usual way that he started paying close attention to it. He was able to plot the motions on the grid of his window panes and came to the conclusion that no modern aircraft could possibly make such maneuvers. It made quite a stir in the local paper for a week or so. Other people saw it too, but he was the only one who made that kind of observation. I don’t recall it getting any serious investigation.

My religious beliefs allow for other planets that are populated with beings similar to us; however, I don’t see any way a technology can exist that would allow them to project themselves in vehicles over the humongous distances of space. The energy requirements and physical deprivations would be insurmountable. I do believe God and His associates have the means to travel though space and time, but what that could possibly be......? As Alma said, these mysteries have not fully been made known to me, therefore I shall forbear. Or maybe not....

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video/play;_ylt=AwrS32FipT5a8DUA0DS5mWRH;_ylu=X3oDMTBzYmZpbnA0BHNlYwNzcgRzbGsDdmlkBHZ0aWQDBGdwb3MDMjU-?p=guild+navigator&vid=eb38c22c34141707c0ad010e20729b52&turl=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOVP.g0QjBPtRiMUD4SCQi89SeAEsCo%26pid%3D15.1%26h%3D168%26w%3D300%26c%3D7%26rs%3D1&rurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Do-q1WrY27Z8&***=Dune%3A+Spacing+Guild+Heighliner+-+Spacedock&c=24&h=168&w=300&l=189&sigr=11b2ja1eo&sigt=11aeb945k&sigi=12r9945jq&age=1497814824&fr2=p%3As%2Cv%3Av&fr=ipad&vm=r&tt=b

What do you make of Ezekiel and the Wheel in the first chapter?

[strappinglad]

Somewhere in the vast reaches of my forgotten readings, I recall a statement about the idea that the only beings allowed to be on earth are those specifically assigned here. I am grossly paraphrasing. I can't say if the statement was ancient or ' modern ' scripture. Calling all sleuths !

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

WHat

What do you make of Ezekiel and the Wheel in the first chapter?

Quote

5 Also out of the midst thereof came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance; they had the likeness of a man.

6 And every one had four faces, and every one had four wings.

7 And their feet were straight feet; and the sole of their feet was like the sole of a calf's foot: and they sparkled like the colour of burnished brass.

8 And they had the hands of a man under their wings on their four sides; and they four had their faces and their wings.

9 Their wings were joined one to another; they turned not when they went; they went every one straight forward.

10 As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

11 Thus were their faces: and their wings were stretched upward; two wings of every one were joined one to another, and two covered their bodies.

12 And they went every one straight forward: whither the spirit was to go, they went; and they turned not when they went.

13 As for the likeness of the living creatures, their appearance was like burning coals of fire, and like the appearance of lamps: it went up and down among the living creatures; and the fire was bright, and out of the fire went forth lightning.

14 And the living creatures ran and returned as the appearance of a flash of lightning.

Sounds a lot like Guild Navigators to me.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Somewhere in the vast reaches of my forgotten readings, I recall a statement about the idea that the only beings allowed to be on earth are those specifically assigned here. I am grossly paraphrasing. I can't say if the statement was ancient or ' modern ' scripture. Calling all sleuths !

How about this? https://infogalactic.com/info/Joseph_Fielding_Smith

Quote

In early 1961, Smith preached to a stake conference congregation in Hawaii:

We will never get a man into space. This earth is man's sphere and it was never intended that he should get away from it. The moon is a superior planet to the earth and it was never intended that man should go there. You can write it down in your books that this will never happen.^[28]

Earlier, Smith had written that "it is doubtful that man will ever be permitted to make any instrument or ship to travel through space and visit the moon or any distant planet".^[29] At the 1970 press conference where Smith was introduced as President of the LDS Church, he was asked about these statements; Smith reportedly responded, "Well, I was wrong, wasn't I?"^[30][31]

 

[strappinglad]

Thanks, but that is not the one I am thinking of. It related to other beings coming here not us going elsewhere.

[Calm]

It sounds familiar...maybe has "sphere" in it?

And modern I think.

Edited December 26, 2017 by Calm

[Anakin7]

12 hours ago, Jeanne said:

You just gave me the heebie jeebies...

Sorry,  I am just passing on a personal 1st hand account of a conversation of a witness.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment It Is The Central Doctrine

In His Eternal Debt/Grace 

Anakin7, 

LDS Sentinel Son Of Thunder Kryptonian

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, Anakin7 said:

Sorry,  I am just passing on a personal 1st hand account of a conversation of a witness.

The Atonement It Is The Central Doctrine

Washing My Garment It Is The Central Doctrine

In His Eternal Debt/Grace 

Anakin7, 

LDS Sentinel Son Of Thunder Kryptonian

https://futurism.com/nasas-new-ion-thruster-breaks-records-could-take-humans-to-mars/

[Stargazer]

On ‎12‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 12:28 PM, jkwilliams said:

Short answer: They don't have much to do with my religious beliefs at all. I'm with CA Steve on this in that I wouldn't rule out the possibility that aliens have visited from other planets, but I don't see any incontrovertible evidence , either. If there are such visitors, that's great, but I don't spend much time at all worrying about it. 

As long as they don't arrive with a book entitled "To Serve Man"