Secret Combinations

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Many of the Book of Mormon combinations did use murder but that is not a requirement. Basically it is any group that makes a pact or agreement to hide each other's misdeeds and their objective is gain and/or glory.

Murderous ones are amongst the worst. Also those that seek to convert human life into personal property. This is often done through slavery (real or de facto), exploitation, and by killing. The sin is the most heinous in these cases.

I disagree in terms of what is being discussed in Ether above and several other places.  

Quote

devil is source of secret combinations of murder, 2 Ne. 9:9 (Hel. 6:29; Ether 8:16).

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/triple-index/murder?lang=eng&clang=eng#title2

Doesn't mean you shouldn't be wary about other organizations that might be pale shadows of it...after all wrong is wrong with or without murder, but I think you run into false equivalencies such as is occurring with Stem when you don't include all the conditions attached to the condemnation.

Edited September 15, 2017 by Calm

[The Nehor]

10 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

Well good.  It's a start on us seeing eye to eye.  Are you saying they did not murder unarmed innocent people?  Or is it that you disagree they wanted to keep it secret?  Or that many who killed got away with it? 

What's so radical here? 

That somehow anyone can tie this to Nauvoo polygamy supposedly being a secret combination.

I also mitigate their crime a little because they believed those unarmed people were a real and genuine threat in a time of war. Does not justify it but I do understand what that kind of fear can do.

[stemelbow]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

CFR that the organization that Joseph set up murdered anyone to get power and gain.

CFR that anyone did?  I mean my goodness....how do we ever really get to the bottom of what are the intentions?  We simply can't.  We can do our best guess.  I would suggest reading Massacre at Mountain Meadows.  In it is described one reason it seems that the murdering took place.  The traveling company had supplies, equipment and livestock that were desired by the Mormons.  That is, I believe, one way the authors of the book suggest how the Mormon settlers got the Native Americans involved. 

Now I realize you will come back saying that the MMM had nothing to do with the secret combination that Joseph set up.  But, I'd suggest a reconsideration fo the material we have.  They felt justified, apparently, for the murders and the attempted secrecy regarding it, because of the teachings of the org that Joseph set up.  There may be some stretch to it, but I'd wager in any example we try to tie to being a secret combination we'd need to make similar stretches. 

Hope that helps.

[stemelbow]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That somehow anyone can tie this to Nauvoo polygamy supposedly being a secret combination.

Oh.  I see what your concern is.  The secret combinations set up in Nauvoo seem to have continued to some extent, as a tradition as they Church moved west.  Secret combinations abounded in Utah.  This was one such case where murder was involved.  It set a precedent for MMM< it seems to me.  Now that might be a stretch, as I told Calm.  Of course it will particularly for those who want the MMM to be an isolated case that happened in a vacuum. 

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I also mitigate their crime a little because they believed those unarmed people were a real and genuine threat in a time of war. Does not justify it but I do understand what that kind of fear can do.

Yes fear does seem  like a prevailing element of murderous secret combinations. 

[DJBrown]

55 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

They are prevalent, pervasive, and most people accede to at least one such group.

Like in the Book of Mormon they are mostly incompetent bumbling organizations that usually fail to achieve their goals.

You find them in employees that agree to keep quiet about cheating, employers seeking to exploit their employees unfairly, political groups working together to cover their sins, scratching each other's backs unfair business deals, advertising campaigns deceiving people in order to defraud them, criminal enterprises from stupid street gangs to organized crime, and the list can go on and on.

The scriptures do not spend much time talking about their secret nature and ferreting them out as they are usually blatant. The counsel is to avoid belonging to them.

Yes.  Moroni warns modern 'Gentiles" lest the secret combinations "get above" us.  He further states that the secret combinations he speaks of seek the "overthrow of the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries."  

In my mind, Moroni wouldn't be worrying too much about a small group of people with bad intentions that offered no serious threat to such a broad group of people.  

So ultimately, my question is- what group or organization seeks the overthrow of the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries and actually poses a threat of achieving that goal?

[JLHPROF]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

Who knows really?  We can only guess.   The OP just asked about examples of these secret orgs, if you will.  I gave an example.  I didn't introduce the devil into this conversation. 

No, the OP did.

[champatsch]

Quote

Royal Skousen:

In Alexander Campbell's 1831 review of the Book of Mormon, he notes that the Book of
Mormon deals with "the question of freemasonry, republican government, and the rights
of man". The first of these claims seems rather dubious since there is no explicit
discussion of Freemasonry in the text. Some have attempted to support Campbell's claim
by connecting the Book of Mormon's use of the term secret combination with
Freemasonry, and by referring specifically to a key period in 1827-1829 when there were
numerous references to Freemasonry as a secret combination. Greg Smith has provided
a thorough review of this proposed connection and has shown that the term secret
combination was used in a general sense from the mid-1700s up through the mid- 1800s;
and even in the key period of 1827-1829, the term secret combination continued to be
used in its general sense. I recommend his 2014 paper and will not repeat his
findings here (see Gregory L. Smith, "Cracking the Book of Mormon's Secret
Combinations", Interpreter 13:63-109).

From my perspective, the important issue is how this term was used in Early Modern
English, especially since there is strong evidence that the Book of Mormon language has
considerable similarities with the written English language from the 1540s up into the
1730s. When we look up the term secret combination in Early English Books Online
(EEBO), we find no references whatsoever to Masonry, not from the term's first citation
in 1602 up through all the subsequent citations in the 17th century. Instead, the term is
used with respect to political revolution and assassination in the early 1600s, especially
the conspiracy of Guy Fawkes and other Catholics in their failed attempt to blow up
Parliament and the King on 5 November 1605. The term is more generally used later in
the century to refer to political and religious conspiracies, especially Catholic ones.

 

[Tsuzuki]

I'm a member of one secret combination (O.T.O.), and I'm about to join two more (Freemasons and Odd Fellows).

[cinepro]

5 hours ago, DJBrown said:

President Benson also warned of secret combinations in our day.  

My questions is- does such an organization or organizations exist today.  And if so, how are they manifest in the world and what do they seek?

To be clear, President Benson was warning of Secret Combinations in his day...

 

Quote

Surely no courageous, liberty-loving citizen will treat the communist secret combination as " something we will have to learn to live with. " There is a more courageous and sounder point of view. President McKay expressed it in these words: " Men will be free. I have hoped for twenty years that the Russian system would break up. There is no freedom under it, and sooner or later the people will rise against it. They can not oppose those fundamentals of civilization and of God. They can't crush their people always. Men will be free.

 

 

 

Quote

The world-wide secret conspiracy which has risen up in our day to fulfil these prophecies is easily identified. President McKay has left no room for doubt as to what attitude Latter-day Saints should take toward the modern "secret combinations" of conspiratorial communism. In a lengthy statement on communism, he said:

". . . Latter-day Saints should have nothing to do with the secret combinations and groups antagonistic to the constitutional law of the land, which the Lord 'suffered to be established,' and which 'should be maintained for the rights and protection of all flesh according to just and holy principles (D&C 101:77)'" (Gospel Ideals, by David O. McKay p. 306. Italics added).

There are those who recommend that the clash between communism and freedom be avoided through disarmament agreements. Abolishing our military strength and adopting an unenforceable contract as a substitute to protect us would go down in history as the greatest mistake free men could make in a time of peril.

The American Heritage of Freedom—A Plan of God, Elder Ezra Taft Benson, October 1961 Conference

http://scriptures.byu.edu/gettalk.php?ID=1165

 

[rodheadlee]

5 hours ago, DJBrown said:

One of the main themes in the Book of Mormon is "secret combinations."  In the text, we read about these secret and wicked organizations that seek power and sin.i

My questions is- does such an organization or organizations exist today.  And if so, how are they manifest in the world and what do they seek?

The drug cartels of Mexico and El Salvador fit perfectly.

[stemelbow]

23 minutes ago, Tsuzuki said:

I'm a member of one secret combination (O.T.O.), and I'm about to join two more (Freemasons and Odd Fellows).

I realize it's secret, but I'm curious who it is your combinations are going to murder.

[Tsuzuki]

12 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I realize it's secret, but I'm curious who it is your combinations are going to murder.

I was playing old school D&D with the Odd Fellows last Monday, and I pushed a kobold.

[strappinglad]

Let's see.... the Illuminati , the Bilderberg group, the Zionists, PETA, the Daughters of the American Revolution, the 97% consensus...

[Tsuzuki]

Anyone want to help me revive the Bavarian Illuminati? I have all the initiation rituals, and just need collaborators.

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Duh.

Terrorism.

I don't know why no replies but Isis? Perfectly obvious to me.

[rpn]

There are lots of movements that seek to take over governments for power and money reasons (some have succeeded in limiting freedoms of those in entire countries).   And there are even more movements and organizations and businesses who do it in the guise of selling things to people.

That is how and why we are taught to be vigilant about preserving our freedom to choose and worship God.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/15/2017 at 9:38 AM, DJBrown said:

................................................................

President Benson also warned of secret combinations in our day.  

My questions is- does such an organization or organizations exist today.  And if so, how are they manifest in the world and what do they seek?

"Secret combinations" is an Early Modern English term used (as Stan Carmack has pointed out) since about 1602 on into the 19th century.  It shows up in the BofM as both a Jaredite and Nephite phenomenon (Ether 8:19-22, 14:8-10, 2 Nephi 9:9, 26:22, Alma 37:30-31, Helaman 3:23, 3 Nephi 4:29, 4 Nephi 42).  In an 1814 Bible commentary on Judges 3:19, Thomas Scott says that “pre-Davidic kingdom Israelites could be engaged in a secret combination against Moabite overlords.”  Gregory L. Smith, "Cracking the Book of Mormon's Secret Combinations," Interpreter, 13:84, citing T. Scott, The Holy Bible, Containing the Old and New Testaments, with Original Notes, etc., 4th American ed., Vol. 1 (NY: Dodge & Sayre: 1814), 703, online at http://books.google.ca/books?id=Q85AAQAAMAAJ&pg=PR703 .

Even though this powerful criminal syndical organization (“secret combination”) was first headed by KISHKUMEN, and even though Mormon denied that the continuity of this secret society went as far back as the Jaredite mafia (Helaman 6:26-30, Ether 8:9-25), the ancient and modern similarities are undeniable, the threat to good governance overwhelming (Helaman 2:11-19, 11:32, 3 Nephi 6:28 - 7:3, Ether 8:19-25).

 Even with the fame of the Japanese Yakuza, and lately of Al-Qaida (“The Base”) and ISIS, the Chinese have always had one up on everyone for their antiquity, complexity, and the sheer danger of their secret societies (see Richard Deacon, The Chinese Secret Service, passim, but especially chapter 3): Since John Sorenson mentions the subject of Book of Mormon “secret combinations” in his Ancient American Setting, it might be well to note that, aside from the merchant and money-lending fraternities and mutual defense organizations formed as Chinese secret societies, some have functioned as intelligence gathering units of sects and political groups.  A secret society could of course evolve in function and power.  One secret society of women was formed to spy on husbands!  Some of the more important Chinese secret societies were:

• White Lotus Society (originally a religious cult)
• Eight Trigram Society (anti-establishment)
• Heavenly Reason Society
• Red Eyebrows Society (rebellious farmers in the Han Dynasty)
• Yellow Turban Society (peasants led by a magician in the Han Dynasty, which lost ½ million members in one battle alone)
• The Triads (originally a Buddhist sect)
• The Taipings (19^th century, which copied the Triads) 

The Triad Society constitutes the most important secret society of all, and is tripartite in structure:  Red Circle, Green Circle, and Society of Elder Brothers (Ko Lao Hui).  It is the largest and most extensive of all Chinese secret societies.  Their secret oaths, signs, and passwords are far more complex even than those used in Freemasonry, and normally take such matters more seriously than the Sicilian Mafia (La Cosa Nostra).  There were degrees and ranks of course.  Anti-Manchu and anti-Christian, the Triads have been used for centuries by various power blocs, e.g., Dr. Sun Yat Sen formed his own Chung Wo Tong Triad Society in Hong Kong in1890 as a political base and espionage organization, while the Kuomintang has used the 14-K Triad for espionage since 1930.  However, the Triads were never really loyal to any governmental entity and have thus been a two-edged sword to any espionage organ – the first loyalty has always been to family and friends.  Chairman Mao wisely avoided all such societies in developing his own espionage apparatus, perhaps the most secret and most efficient such organization in the world (better even than the Israeli Mossad).

Students of the Book of Mormon ought to seriously consider the Triads, the various powerful “mafias” ('Ndrangheta, Comorra, Sicilian, Jamaican, Mexican, Russian, Israeli), as well as the more recent Colombian and Mexican drug cartels, and their formidable threat to governmental institutions.  The Book of Mormon is timeless in its portrayal of such murderous human syndicates.

[drums12]

How about political think tanks like the Project for a New American Century?  Neoconservatives who took full advantage of the tragedy of 9/11 (note I'm not sayin they caused 9/11) and used it as an excuse for unending war and plunder of natural resources in the Middle East.

[DJBrown]

On 9/15/2017 at 3:13 PM, cinepro said:

To be clear, President Benson was warning of Secret Combinations in his day...

It is very naive, in my opinion, to believe that the threat of socialism and communism ended in the early 90s.  The fundamental philosophy and ideology of socialism and communism is alive and well.  Marxism has simply transitioned, or morphed into something that looks different today.  Instead of utilizing socioeconomic class warfare, it now employs identity politics, or group identity warfare.  We see it everywhere in the battle for what group has been victimized the most.  It is most obviously recognized on college campuses where the Bill of Rights doesn't exactly exist in its proper form.  In my opinion, it is this ubiquitous influence and campaign that is the greatest threat to the constitution.  That and environmentalism.  But not just the constitution, but sovereignty of all nations.

[thesometimesaint]

Ezra Taft Benson was a little more pragmatic than that. To him the not so happy blacks, Democrats, and the liberal arts/sciences were the Secret Combinations of his day. He set up his own little spy ring at BYU to ferret out such idea's.

 

A Day in the Life of Joe Republican

 

[This is an email that has floated around the internet since at least 2004.]

 

 

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

[Vance]

On 9/15/2017 at 10:46 AM, stemelbow said:

In our day?  As in more recent years than what the BoM purports to be?  I think a great example, sadly, is the Church in Nauvoo.  Not the whole Church, but those who were in Joseph's secret group, particularly as it pertained to polygamy, but other ways as well. 

The topic is "secret combinations" not just secrets.

Context, context, context.

"the devil . . . who . . . stirreth up the children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of darkness."

"And there are also secret combinations, even as in times of old, according to the combinations of the devil, for he is the founder of all these things; yea, the founder of murder, and works of darkness;

For behold, they murdered all the prophets of the Lord who came among them to declare unto them concerning their iniquities; and the blood of those whom they murdered did cry unto the Lord their God for vengeance upon those who were their murderers; and thus the judgments of God did come upon these workers of darkness and secret combinations.

Yea, and cursed be the land forever and ever unto those workers of darkness and secret combinations, even unto destruction, except they repent before they are fully ripe.

That is just a sample, but it clearly isn't talking about polygamy.

[CV75]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:38 AM, DJBrown said:

One of the main themes in the Book of Mormon is "secret combinations."  In the text, we read about these secret and wicked organizations that seek power and sin.  In Ether, Moroni gives a sobering warning to latter-day Gentiles regarding secret combinations:

"Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.

Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.

For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning."

President Benson also warned of secret combinations in our day.  

My questions is- does such an organization or organizations exist today.  And if so, how are they manifest in the world and what do they seek?

Because secret combinations are inevitable (and "I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them") I think it is just as important to understand and act upon the principles that have proven to secure liberty and freedom -- not just those that are taught in scripture, but those that are enshrined in such secular documents as the Constitution of the United States (and in other, similar constitutions of other nations). They all start small.

[DJBrown]

17 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Because secret combinations are inevitable (and "I cannot tell you all the things whereby ye may commit sin; for there are divers ways and means, even so many that I cannot number them") I think it is just as important to understand and act upon the principles that have proven to secure liberty and freedom -- not just those that are taught in scripture, but those that are enshrined in such secular documents as the Constitution of the United States (and in other, similar constitutions of other nations). They all start small.

I couldn't agree more.  They go hand in hand with the fundamental principles of the gospel.  

[CV75]

10 minutes ago, DJBrown said:

I couldn't agree more.  They go hand in hand with the fundamental principles of the gospel.  

I think such things as organized crime and terrorism are obvious. I don't think the Book of Mormon suggests we can prevent them from arising any more than we can prevent the condition that we have the poor always with us, since they seek for power and gain at the expense of others, or of making others poor. It realistically admits they shall be among us but commands us not to allow them to get above us, or to "suffer these things to be ...when ye shall see these things come among you." Unfortunately, too many do benefit at the expense of others in less obvious ways (D&C 89), or don't mind selling a piece of themselves for the illusion of gain or a higher class position (debt, funding profits and material satisfactions rather than Zion, etc.).

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, DJBrown said:

It is very naive, in my opinion, to believe that the threat of socialism and communism ended in the early 90s.  The fundamental philosophy and ideology of socialism and communism is alive and well.  Marxism has simply transitioned, or morphed into something that looks different today.  Instead of utilizing socioeconomic class warfare, it now employs identity politics, or group identity warfare.  We see it everywhere in the battle for what group has been victimized the most.  It is most obviously recognized on college campuses where the Bill of Rights doesn't exactly exist in its proper form.  In my opinion, it is this ubiquitous influence and campaign that is the greatest threat to the constitution.  That and environmentalism.  But not just the constitution, but sovereignty of all nations.

Hogwash, DJ.  Marxism died because it thrived on both totalitarianism and state capitalism.  There was no communism in Marxism at all.  In early Christianity and at Qumran, yes, but not in modern Marxist states.  Dictatorship cannot abide the Bill of Rights or the Law of Common Consent.  Unrelated to all that is God's expectation that we be good stewards of planet Earth.  Environmentalism is thus a mission from God.