Spritual Abuse (Not Unique to LDS)

[Thinking]

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Quote

In retrospect, at the heart of our position was our need for all of our children to appear obedient so that we would look like successful parents.

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review session.

Thoughts?

[Traela]

I remember an article by a mother who was married to a non or less-active LDS who was was absolutely determined that FHE should be on Mondays, so she would give a lesson while on the way to sport practices.  Another woman in my ward was appalled that so many games and concerts and such are scheduled for Monday nights, and was also rather appalled that more parents in the Mormon corridor didn't complain.  I didn't speak up, but I should have pointed out that some things can be juggled.  Personally, I would rather have a conflict on a Monday than a Tuesday, because it's much easier to adjust FHE than Mutual.

 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review session.

Thoughts?

A kid in my son's band told me his parents were thinking of pulling him out and into a more academically oriented school because they were disappointed in his grades.  He was at the 93%.

Sometimes parents can have what appear to be inordinately high standards for their children.  Unless we know the reason why, I don't think it is right to call it abuse.  It may be the child needs that stability or push for some reason.  Perhaps the kid I knew was a genius and was wasting his time and using band as an excuse.  I rather doubt it knowing the kid even a little, but I didn't know him enough to be sure.

You don't know if that was the only time the family could all be together and it had become a very meaningful family tradition...or perhaps there was another child in the family that needed the rigid routine and the rest of the family recognized and sacrifice for them.

Unless there is something obviously wrong, labeling parents "abusive" is not right, imo.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Thinking said:

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review session.

Thoughts?

Life is a negotiation with reality.  God doesn't superintend each specific arrangement or negotiation.  Each of us must find his own way, while being respectful of the choices which others make.

[The Nehor]

In regards to the hyperactive craziness some LDS live I think of what President Kimball said:

"Heaven is a place, but also a condition; it is home and family. It is understanding and kindness. It is interdependence and selfless activity. It is quiet, sane living; personal sacrifice, genuine hospitality, wholesome concern for others. It is living the commandments of God without ostentation or hypocrisy. It is selflessness. It is all about us. We need only to be able to recognize it as we find it and enjoy it. Yes, my dear brother, I’ve had many glimpses of heaven.” (emphasis mine)

Some people naturally live life at a higher pace then others and good for them. Some stress themselves and those around them out with their desperation. Sometimes it leads to depression and frustration as they imagine God demands this kind of pace. God does demand a lot of us but He made us human. He instilled in us the need for rest and recreation and sleep. On a personal note the most edifying and spiritual and thrilling experiences in my life did not come when I was busy.

[Storm Rider]

For a ship with no direction any wind is fair.  It is important to have a direction and understand where we are going.  Sometimes storms and inclement weather arrive and cause a temporary change in direction, but only in so much as to get around the weather and then it is back to our true direction.  Some people are inflexible and sometimes it is vital that we are inflexible.  At other times it is so very important to be flexible without breaking those things that are most dear.  Do we serve a higher priority when flexible?  That is a question we should ask ourselves before bending.  For me it is always about understanding what is most important and trying not to sweat the small stuff. 

Thanks for sharing the quote above by SWK - outstanding lens through which to view life and identifying what is important.

[Glenn101]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review session.

Thoughts?

How did this student normally get to school? And why was the review scheduled in the morning rather than after school? And do you consider family scripture study spiritual abuse?

Just wanted to add that the article has a lot of good points and advice.

Glenn

Edited August 7, 2017 by Glenn101
added a thought

[CV75]

10 hours ago, Thinking said:

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review session.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure what the tie-in of this man's decision is with spiritual abuse and your quote from the link. But of course the dad could have decided otherwise.

I'd like to see a thread addressing "Spiritual Self-Abuse" started by someone with examples in that area.

[Duncan]

I think for me spiritual abuse is basically manipulation or guilt tripping someone, "you want to follow God, right?"or "You can't be happy until you're married". It's why we are invited not pushed or coerced or as we used to say in the mission field, "spiritual armtwisting" ( I have a zone conference sheet about that)

[ksfisher]

13 hours ago, Thinking said:

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

 

Are you saying that this is an example of spiritual abuse?

[Maidservant]

I think the example you provided--really, parents are generally doing the best they can.  That's all this is.  Parents make lots of mistakes (if this is one).  I mean, they could have said: that's when we watch news together so my children know about the world.  That's when we have our family mud wrestle so we can have fun together.  Sounds like parents who were trying to provide structure and make priorities--even if you don't particularly agree with their priorities.  On the face of it, it doesn't seem unreasonable to make an exception for another important priority; but you just don't know.

As far as spiritual abuse--I think more definition is required.  I think all of us have to find our way with God--figuring out if he hates us or loves us; figuring out if he likes sacrifices or obedience; figuring out if he likes the letter or the spirit of the law; figuring out if he likes justice or mercy (trick question); etc etc etc.

[Jeanne]

13 hours ago, Traela said:

I remember an article by a mother who was married to a non or less-active LDS who was was absolutely determined that FHE should be on Mondays, so she would give a lesson while on the way to sport practices.  Another woman in my ward was appalled that so many games and concerts and such are scheduled for Monday nights, and was also rather appalled that more parents in the Mormon corridor didn't complain.  I didn't speak up, but I should have pointed out that some things can be juggled.  Personally, I would rather have a conflict on a Monday than a Tuesday, because it's much easier to adjust FHE than Mutual.

 

Well yeah...things can be juggled a little.  When we had things going on when I was younger...FHE would be scheduled for Sunday night.  I think that there are other things in life that make spirituality better...like sports or involvement on other areas...this makes a person whole.  Working with the world is what a church/family should do and it can be done.  I don't think that Monday has to be fixed.  Mix things up a bit and it will be quality time.

Edited August 7, 2017 by Jeanne

[Thinking]

4 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

How did this student normally get to school?

I don't know. I do know that if something is important, people find a way to make it happen.

4 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

And why was the review scheduled in the morning rather than after school?

I'm not sure why this is relevant. I could have scheduled it after school and had a similar response from a parent, then you would would have asked why it was scheduled for the afternoon instead of the morning.

4 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

And do you consider family scripture study spiritual abuse?

It can be if managed improperly.

[Glenn101]

51 minutes ago, Thinking said:

1. I don't know. I do know that if something is important, people find a way to make it happen.

2. I'm not sure why this is relevant. I could have scheduled it after school and had a similar response from a parent, then you would would have asked why it was scheduled for the afternoon instead of the morning.

3. It can be if managed improperly.

1. You seem to be putting the complete responsibility on the family to "make it happen." I do not know anything about the family in question and the school, but most students ride a school bus to get to school in my neck of the woods, with all that implies.

2. The part about the possibility of scheduling the review in the afternoon is relevant if you did not offer to do so or made no other efforts to help the family "make it happen."

3. As to family scripture reading being possible spiritual abuse, you seem to be implying that is the case in this example you are providing without seeming to have spoken with the student himself to see how he felt, etc.

I am making no judgment call here either way. I do not know your own schedule, nor that of the family in question. But maybe better communications would help.

Glenn

[Guest]

19 hours ago, Thinking said:

I just happened across an interesting article (it showed up on my Facebook news feed) and upon reading it I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe). As I noted in the topic title, I don't think this is unique to the LDS culture, but I do think that it happens.

Spiritual Abuse

Recognizing the appropriate age to allow your children to have complete control over their decisions (religious or otherwise) can be difficult.

I teach high school math and several years ago I called a student's parent because I had scheduled a morning review session for an upcoming test. That student needed the extra review and had never come to a review before so I wondered if the parents were even aware. When I told the dad that the review was in the morning before school he replied, "He won't be coming. That's when we have family scripture study."

In high school I played basketball, and the summer between my junior and senior year our coach scheduled the team to play in some tournaments. One of the tournaments was every Monday evening for about 8 weeks. My very faithful LDS mother did not give her permission right away. After talking to my dad, she said very simply, "You can play." On a few of those Monday evening games, family home evening was watching me play.

I sometimes wonder if the dad of that student could have decided to have scripture study at another time so that his son could attend the review...

Thoughts?

Two things,

Of course there is "spiritual abuse" in other Faiths, not sure why this would be a surprise to anyone. Morning scripture study is not "spiritual abuse". Usually in homes where morning scripture study occurs children usually are more well rounded, confident and excel in school. Usually parents who put an emphasis on such matters, usually do the same when it comes to homework, review and assisting their children via helping them with their work. Family Home Evening, can take on many forms...the key is being together as family. Although the part about watching the game he might have been in seems a little harsh. BTW, I acidently erased the last few words of your thread, while trying to edit mine. I am just wondering why you suggest that is is "abuse" instead of parents just not seeing the forest for the trees at times? 

[Storm Rider]

I have to laugh about this article and the terrible thing that we call "spiritual abuse" - like this is something that God fearing parents really need to be concerned about.  Relative to what?

You want to know real abuse of a child?  Today I had occasion to read about a camp in El Cerrito, California for children ages 4 to 12 (I think).  This camp is set up for children to be completely comfortable choosing their gender for the day; the manner they want to be address - he, she, they, or nothing at all.  Tell me, oh mighty enlightened ones, when is a child fully capable of even understanding what gender is?  The one thing I can tell you without doubt is  - it sure is heck is not 4 years old.  It is not 5, it is not 6.  I don't even think a 16 year old has the full capability of defining what is and what is not gender.  Does anyone have any study that clearly states that a child is the best judge of their own sexuality at these young ages?  

If you really want to look at abuse - look no further than this type of claptrap stupidity being portrayed as being helpful, loving, accepting, etc.  Just a minute and I will tell you how I really feel. 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

1. You seem to be putting the complete responsibility on the family to "make it happen." I do not know anything about the family in question and the school, but most students ride a school bus to get to school in my neck of the woods, with all that implies.

2. The part about the possibility of scheduling the review in the afternoon is relevant if you did not offer to do so or made no other efforts to help the family "make it happen."

3. As to family scripture reading being possible spiritual abuse, you seem to be implying that is the case in this example you are providing without seeming to have spoken with the student himself to see how he felt, etc.

I am making no judgment call here either way. I do not know your own schedule, nor that of the family in question. But maybe better communications would help.

Glenn

2. Teachers should not be expected to adapt to every possible scheduling conflict. If a parent wants their kid to duck out of a review session due to scripture study that is great but if I am the teacher they miss the review session. Teachers do not have an unlimited amount of time.

I agree with most of the rest. Scripture study is not abuse even if done at 6:00 AM like my family did. Admittedly I might have called it abuse then.  

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

I have to laugh about this article and the terrible thing that we call "spiritual abuse" - like this is something that God fearing parents really need to be concerned about.  Relative to what?

You want to know real abuse of a child?  Today I had occasion to read about a camp in El Cerrito, California for children ages 4 to 12 (I think).  This camp is set up for children to be completely comfortable choosing their gender for the day; the manner they want to be address - he, she, they, or nothing at all.  Tell me, oh mighty enlightened ones, when is a child fully capable of even understanding what gender is?  The one thing I can tell you without doubt is  - it sure is heck is not 4 years old.  It is not 5, it is not 6.  I don't even think a 16 year old has the full capability of defining what is and what is not gender.  Does anyone have any study that clearly states that a child is the best judge of their own sexuality at these young ages?  

If you really want to look at abuse - look no further than this type of claptrap stupidity being portrayed as being helpful, loving, accepting, etc.  Just a minute and I will tell you how I really feel. 

That sounds very dumb, akin to the German 'teach kids about sex when they are around 5' experiments done a few decades back. Led to a lot of messed up people.

We are doing the same thing with gender now.

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

2. Teachers should not be expected to adapt to every possible scheduling conflict. If a parent wants their kid to duck out of a review session due to scripture study that is great but if I am the teacher they miss the review session. Teachers do not have an unlimited amount of time.

No one has an unlimited amount of time. In my experience teachers do have some flexibility in scheduling. Mornings before school are not optimum for scheduling reviews in my experience due to the normal chaos that is involved in getting children ready for school, especially if there is more than one school involved and depending on whether both parents work. I have dealt with trying to keep up with the schedules and demands of nine kids (but only seven in school at once) including one with developmental problems. The teachers that I dealt with would normally give my wife and I several scheduling options when seeking an interview with me and/or my wife or one of our children if it were to be outside normal school hours which would require arranging a ride. This was a situation made all a bit difficult because we had only one vehicle for quite a few years.

As I noted in my original post, I have no idea what the situation was with the family, but if the object is to get a student in for an review, giving the student and family some options might just be the thing that makes it happen.

Apologies to all for sidetracking the thread.

Glenn

[Thinking]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:29 PM, Traela said:

Another woman in my ward was appalled that so many games and concerts and such are scheduled for Monday nights, and was also rather appalled that more parents in the Mormon corridor didn't complain.  I didn't speak up, but I should have pointed out that some things can be juggled.  Personally, I would rather have a conflict on a Monday than a Tuesday, because it's much easier to adjust FHE than Mutual.

My two younger sisters played volleyball and basketball for the high school team. Their young women leaders put them on the less active list for missing mutual frequently. I also missed a lot of mutual because of high school basketball. My young men leader came to a few of my games to show his support.

[The Nehor]

29 minutes ago, Thinking said:

My two younger sisters played volleyball and basketball for the high school team. Their young women leaders put them on the less active list for missing mutual frequently. I also missed a lot of mutual because of high school basketball. My young men leader came to a few of my games to show his support.

I wish I had found an extracurricular that let me skip mutual. Instead I defaulted to amateur basketball with the occasional ear ball game.

[Glenn101]

29 minutes ago, Thinking said:

My two younger sisters played volleyball and basketball for the high school team. Their young women leaders put them on the less active list for missing mutual frequently. I also missed a lot of mutual because of high school basketball. My young men leader came to a few of my games to show his support.

Just wanted to chime in and agree with you a bit. Spiritual abuse can occur when things are carried too far. I learned to evaluate what I was doing as to whether it was achieving the desired results. If not, evaluate whether the desired result was actually feasible/rational or whether it was the methods that were failing, then plan and act accordingly. I did not do it perfectly, but we all survived.

Glenn

[The Nehor]

If anyone is confused real religious abuse is manipulative and emotionally damaging. This video is an example of authentic spiritual abuse:

 

[rchorse]

The linked article is very worthwhile and identifies behavior that religious people really should watch out for. The examples in the OP, however, are so mild in comparison to what the article is talking about, that to call them abuse is to abuse the concept of abuse. 

Not to mention that everything someone doesn't like gets called abuse these days. I find the word to be so overused, that it's hard to take seriously anymore. 

[Thinking]

On 8/8/2017 at 1:45 AM, rchorse said:

The examples in the OP, however, are so mild...

On 8/6/2017 at 8:16 PM, Thinking said:

I realized that there may be a lot of spiritual abuse happening (from mild to severe).