stemelbow Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) The poll describing a recent survey has me curious about people's views here. If yes, do you support SSM because it is the law of the land, thus legally you feel obliged to support, yet you don't support it on religious moral grounds? If no, do you object because the Church has clearly defined SS relationships as apostasy, and you can't support that which is immoral? Edited June 29, 2017 by stemelbow
stemelbow Posted June 28, 2017 Author Posted June 28, 2017 Sorry I didn't realize I couldn't include conditional questions, meaning all questions had to be answered in the poll for one to submit answers. So I had to ask the "if no..." portion in the body of my message. If you don't mind answering the if no, if it pertains, that'd be appreciated.
stemelbow Posted June 28, 2017 Author Posted June 28, 2017 My answers were yes and then no. I support gay marriage because I have nothing either morally or otherwise against it. I support people in their loving relationships, so I have no reason to object. 4
HappyJackWagon Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 15 minutes ago, stemelbow said: My answers were yes and then no. I support gay marriage because I have nothing either morally or otherwise against it. I support people in their loving relationships, so I have no reason to object. Mine too 2
Johnnie Cake Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 24 minutes ago, stemelbow said: My answers were yes and then no. I support gay marriage because I have nothing either morally or otherwise against it. I support people in their loving relationships, so I have no reason to object. I support marriage equality because there is NOTHING morally wrong with 2 loving adults who chose to live their life together in a committed relationship...both government and religious institutions should celebrate these committed family unions.
pogi Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 I support it not because it is the law of the land, or because I am obliged to. I supported it before it became legal, because I support personal and religious liberty. So, I believe that I have some religious grounds to support it in D&C 134, but I don't support it on moral grounds, if that makes sense. So, I don't know how to answer your question. 1
stemelbow Posted June 28, 2017 Author Posted June 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, pogi said: I support it not because it is the law of the land, or because I am obliged to. I supported it before it became legal, because I support personal and religious liberty. So, I believe that I have some religious grounds to support it in D&C 134, but I don't support it on moral grounds, if that makes sense. So, I don't know how to answer your question. Gotcha. I wasn't exactly sure how I'd best represent everyone's view, through the questions. Thanks for the response though.
CV75 Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 I do not support it on moral grounds and on the justifications supporting that only marriage between a man and a woman is moral, but I uphold the law of the land.
rodheadlee Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 What do you mean by support gay marriage? I support the right of all Americans to be who they want to be even if I don't like their choices.
BlueDreams Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) I put undecided and yes, though I don't think either answer really fits my actual stance. The first I would answer, neutral or don't care enough currently to have and opinion or I've seen the best of both sides of the argument, get it, and still don't know where I fit. I don't know if I feel legally obliged. I just figure debates over, there's the decision, I'm fine with it being there for the most part, but I don't think it's religiously correct. Since I'm neutral I figure I'll answer your other question too. If no, do you object because the Church has clearly defined SS relationships as apostasy, and you can't support that which is immoral? Not exactly. When I was younger and learning about this largely online, I was really really persuaded/empathized with the marriage equality/love arguments more so than some of the ones I found on the other side. It resonated with how I think and my background a little (lot) more. But something in me and my life couldn't wholesale support it. Overtime that "something" has gained more definition. It has little to do with the Church's apostasy stance, though that makes logical sense to me. It has more to do with my personal spiritual and familial constructs. Influenced by the church, yes. But also influenced by my life as a whole. With luv, BD Edited June 28, 2017 by BlueDreams
CV75 Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, stemelbow said: The poll describing a recent survey has me curious about people's views here. If no, do you object because the Church has clearly defined SS relationships as apostasy, and you can't support that which is immoral? For me, the Church's inclusion of it as a form of apostasy came so much later than my moral stance on it. I think my moral stance on it even preceded my allegiance to the covenant as divinely instituted (religiously speaking) from the beginning of civilization. I think the Lord institutes covenants that He deems moral, deeming them moral because that is how His Father(s) deemed / designed things. Edited June 28, 2017 by CV75 1
Tacenda Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 5 hours ago, stemelbow said: My answers were yes and then no. I support gay marriage because I have nothing either morally or otherwise against it. I support people in their loving relationships, so I have no reason to object. Mine too. I believe marriage will help alleviate a promiscuous relationship, just as in monogamy.
Jeanne Posted June 28, 2017 Posted June 28, 2017 Yes...then no. Can't for no reason tell people who to love and be happy with.
Tacenda Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 7 hours ago, Tacenda said: Mine too. I believe marriage will help alleviate a promiscuous relationship, just as in monogamy. Quoted myself, rethunk this, I'm not saying single people will be promisucous because they're single and not married.
sunstoned Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 I support a framework that allows all people to express there love and live together in a formal and lawful manner. Who am I to put qualifications on how people should express their love? Because I am heterosexual I can never fully understand what my gay brothers and sisters have gone through to finally gain this legal equality. But I do know it was hard won. And I will march and fight for their rights, as I would hope others would come to my aid should my rights be threatened. 2
HappyJackWagon Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 I think for some members the shift in acceptance of SSM is due to a shift or reprioritization of gospel principles. It is a preeminent teaching that families are the most essential organization on the earth. It is taught that chastity ( sxual relationships only permitted between married couples) is important and righteous. It is taught that individuals should seek to have a family, spouse & children, and raise them with love. It is taught that it is not good for man (and presumably women too) to be alone. This is taught from the earliest days in primary, through the youth program and into adulthood. So it is no wonder that gay people who grew up in the church also desire these same things. I think members recognize that. I think members recognize that it is better for individuals to be a part of a loving family, rather than being alone. I think many members recognize there is no other path or plan of happiness for gay people besides the same path hetero people are on. Members desire for their loved ones to be happy. I think this is the main reason for the shift. 2
Popular Post Alan Posted June 29, 2017 Popular Post Posted June 29, 2017 I voted "no" on the first question. The second question doesn't apply because it begins with "If yes....." However, the poll demanded an answer to the second question before it could register my vote. This needs fixing. Just for the record, I absolutely do not support SSM in any way shape of form. Homosexual behavior is an abomination. 5
Oliblish Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 First, I want to change the question. Asking if we support same sex marriage because it is the law of the land is basically asking if we support the law of the land. A better question would be: "Do you think same sex marriage should be the law of the land?" My answer to that would be yes. I have a cousin that grew up as a gay teen in the 1970's. We are about the same age but I don't remember seeing him much growing up. I do remember in the early 1980's at a family reunion my aunts and uncles talking about whether he should be allowed to come to family reunions. The decision was made that he was not allowed to come. I remember having an uneasy feeling about that. I guess it is kind of obvious that he left the church. I can't really blame him for that. He has been with the same partner now for over 30 years. The attitudes of my extended family towards the situation have slowly changed over the decades. My cousin and his partner have both been showing up to family reunions for the last 10 years and they are both just as welcome as anyone else. When the law changed in Utah that allowed gay marriage, my cousin was elated. He and his partner dropped everything and got married that day. He sent us pictures in email. Many of the family that used to ban him from reunions in the past offered heart-felt congratulations to him and his new husband. Attitudes toward LGBT men and women have changed radically over my lifetime and I don't see the trend changing any time soon. 3
Danzo Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 I agree with Alan. If you vote No on the first question you still have to answer the second question. You should add an option to the second question that says "I voted no on the first" that you allow people to finish the poll.
stemelbow Posted June 29, 2017 Author Posted June 29, 2017 Sorry all about the poll. I can't see how one can create a poll and make it so all questions need not be answered. I cut it back to one question and then in the body of my post I asked the last two--the "if yes..." and "if no...". I should have caught this earlier. I'm realizing the poll didn't work right and therefore isn't getting us a very good idea about where people stand exactly.
california boy Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 2 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said: I think for some members the shift in acceptance of SSM is due to a shift or reprioritization of gospel principles. It is a preeminent teaching that families are the most essential organization on the earth. It is taught that chastity ( sxual relationships only permitted between married couples) is important and righteous. It is taught that individuals should seek to have a family, spouse & children, and raise them with love. It is taught that it is not good for man (and presumably women too) to be alone. This is taught from the earliest days in primary, through the youth program and into adulthood. So it is no wonder that gay people who grew up in the church also desire these same things. I think members recognize that. I think members recognize that it is better for individuals to be a part of a loving family, rather than being alone. I think many members recognize there is no other path or plan of happiness for gay people besides the same path hetero people are on. Members desire for their loved ones to be happy. I think this is the main reason for the shift. This is the issue exactly. Teaching a policy of celibacy goes completely against the very core doctrines of the church. Take out marriage from the Plan of Happiness and there is no happiness. It is that simple. Let God support whether that marriage is valid or not. Let God figure out the role gay couples play in the next life. 1
thesometimesaint Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 While I support the Church position on SSM being a sin. It is really none of my business what nonmembers do. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 9:09 AM, CV75 said: I do not support it on moral grounds and on the justifications supporting that only marriage between a man and a woman is moral, but I uphold the law of the land. You can uphold the law of the land without approving of it.
Scott Lloyd Posted June 29, 2017 Posted June 29, 2017 On 6/28/2017 at 9:30 AM, CV75 said: For me, the Church's inclusion of it as a form of apostasy came so much later than my moral stance on it. I think my moral stance on it even preceded my allegiance to the covenant as divinely instituted (religiously speaking) from the beginning of civilization. I think the Lord institutes covenants that He deems moral, deeming them moral because that is how His Father(s) deemed / designed things. I agree with this. It came as no surprise to me that the Church would deem same-sex marriage on the part of its members as amounting to apostasy. I would have been surprised had the Church not taken that stance. And despite the Supreme Court ruling two years ago, I still disapprove of the redefinition of marriage as being harmful to the institution of marriage as God-ordained it and as reaffirmed in "The Family: a Proclamation to the World." I would refer everyone to the top two quotes in the signature of each of my posts. 3
stemelbow Posted June 29, 2017 Author Posted June 29, 2017 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: You can uphold the law of the land without approving of it. I'm curious how we do that? Wouldn't upholding that gay marriage be legal, as in defending it, also mean you are approving it? or Would you suggest that one can accept that it's a law (not because they are want to defend the institution, but because it is settled as law), but disapprove of that law? Would upholding this law suggest one is approving the reasons why it is law? And, wouldn't that suggest upholding means one approves of it?
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