Mormon Bishop convicted of rape

[Rain]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This may be a better since there are some graphs. http://talktoasurvivor.org/child-sexual-abuse-in-utah-2x-and-3x-higher-rates-than-u-s/

Two of my best friends were both sexually abused as young women, by their step-fathers. My sister-in-law was sexually abused by her own father.  I just can't imagine. My friend later on became an alcoholic and drug user, she died young of a heart attack. I remember when her younger sister complained about her step-father's abuse. Nothing happened to him, except that he was put in as a security office at a mall and not a policeman any longer, that was his punishment. I learned later that my friend was abused, she never told me.

I'm on my phone and it is difficult to see that.  When I want to look at some of their links one says it is a risky link and the other is a pdf which I don't like to download,  especially on my own.

I am seeing that when abuse is reported the Utah has a higher share of sexual abuse than when it is reported nationally. Meaning that of 100 reported cases 25% in Utah are sexual abuse and of 100 reported cases 9% nationally are sexual. This does NOT mean that Utah has more reported abuse cases or sexual abuse cases than other states.

Perhaps the actual numbers are in the links within the article? Perhaps I have missed them? 

Like the writer it does bring questions to mind of why sexual abuse occurs at a higher % than nationally. Or one could also ask why the other types of abuse occur at a lower %. 

 

[Glenn101]

59 minutes ago, Sleeper Cell said:

Do you have any evidence that the "typical male" agrees with this judge’s grossly lenient sentence or with his reasoning? 

For what its worth, I believe that the fact that this guy was supposedly a “good family man” (at least, when he wasn’t committing rape) and a bishop makes his crimes much more reprehensible, hence disserving of a much harsher sentence than he would otherwise have received.  

What was the grossly lenient sentence? Five years to life? The parole board in Utah will not allow him to be released until he has been through rehab. His sentence could wind up to be a natural life sentence.

I do not understand the logic of your last sentence. Are you saying that a person who leads an otherwise exemplary life should receive a harsher punishment than a person who is out and out depraved?

Do not get me wrong. I am of the opinion that any sex offender, such as a rapist or child molester should be put in a place where they are not a threat to harm anyone until (a) he has paid his debt to society and (b) has gone through a rehab program and has been deemed to no longer be a threat to society. The last part is maybe the most difficult to determine.

There are some who predators that will always be a threat to society. I don't know how good our therapists are in making those determinations. I don't know if a person can be clever enough to fool a good professional. We do know that rehab really helps in most cases.

And back to the point, it is not God's plan to punish a person forever for mistakes, even terrible ones, if the person sincerely repents. But one of the biggest problems that I can see is determining what actually a person's debt to society is in terms of years.

Glenn

[california boy]

On 4/12/2017 at 10:07 PM, bsjkki said:

I hope this story doesn't spread outside of Utah but it has some elements that may get it picked up. There have been some news events depicting judges behaving badly when sentencing convicted rapists. This seems to be another one of those stories. The judge stated, "The court has no doubt that Mr. Vallejo is an extraordinary, good man. But great men," the judge said Wednesday before taking a long pause, "sometimes do bad things." Huh? He was convicted of "nearly a dozen" sex crimes. From the Trib.

"Kirby told The Salt Lake Tribune on Wednesday that she was surprised by the judge's emotion — but said she felt like his mind was more on sending a man with a large family to prison and less on the victims.

"I didn't feel it was insincere," she said. "I felt there was a little bit of contradiction in him getting emotional about [sentencing] Keith. If he really, really cared about me or about the fact that this person was a criminal, he wouldn't have that kind of sympathy. It was shocking to me for that reason."

The church reported the allegations and immediately released the man from his calling as Bishop. 

"A family member reported the abuse to police in January 2015, according to court records. A lawyer with the firm that represents The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints also reported the allegations during that time.

Vallejo was released from his bishop duties as soon as local leaders learned of the allegations in 2015, according to a spokesman with the LDS Church."  http://www.sltrib.com/news/5170759-155/once-free-despite-his-sex-assault 

At least he will be going to prison. http://abcnews.go.com/US/18-year-charged-rape-years-probation-jail/story?id=41589866 http://www.ktvq.com/story/33394919/montana-judge-defends-decision-to-sentence-child-rapist-to-probation http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/05/justice/texas-rape-sentence/index.htm http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/opinions/stanford-rape-case-cevallos/index.html http://kdvr.com/2016/08/10/former-cu-student-convicted-of-rape-not-sentenced-to-prison/

Why do these judges have so much compassion for convicted rapists?

 

It was picked up by the Huffington Post.

[juliann]

5 hours ago, Sleeper Cell said:

Typical male bias?  For Pete’s sake, give it a rest.  

Do you have any evidence that the "typical male" agrees with this judge’s grossly lenient sentence or with his reasoning? 

For what its worth, I believe that the fact that this guy was supposedly a “good family man” (at least, when he wasn’t committing rape) and a bishop makes his crimes much more reprehensible, hence disserving of a much harsher sentence than he would otherwise have received.  

Defender of the Defended, Voice of the Voiced....

The synonym for atypical is unusual. And yes, it is not unusual. And no that does not mean "typical" males think that way since there is no way to define typical.to begin with. One only has to go through court cases to see how rape cases have been tried. Do you think women won't take rapists to court because they would rather party? 

Few are going to give it a rest until women are no longer subjected to thinking like this judge's. 

[Calm]

Utah may have atypical reporting stats which means one can't use the standard national estimates.

I looked at this topic last year and remember a BYU professor who did a study on reporting stats and I remember it being atypical, but can't remember the precise stats.  Will try to find it.

[bsjkki]

43 minutes ago, california boy said:

It was picked up by the Huffington Post.

...and the Daily Mail. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4413570/Judge-calls-rapist-extraordinarily-good-man.html  I thought it might spread due to the nature of the story: sexual assault/Mormon Bishop/Sympathetic judge 

[juliann]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

 

Like the writer it does bring questions to mind of why sexual abuse occurs at a higher % than nationally. Or one could also ask why the other types of abuse occur at a lower %. 

 

That was one badly written article. And that is my question, which kind of abuse is significantly lower? The categories aren't the same in the national and Utah graphs...if it is possible to figure out which was what in that mess. And if they are going to measure one state, we should be able to see all states. National averages are a bit vague.

But it certainly does look like a problem.

 

[bsjkki]

The Daily Mail had this winner statement, "The defendant's brother spoke at the hearing and compared Vallejo to Jesus in making the argument that he was wrongly convicted, McBride said."

This quote explains why the actions of this judge are so bad. 

Kristen Houser, the Chief Public Affairs officer for the National Sexual Violence Research Center said that Low's words contribute to an overarching problem in the perception of rapists. She said: 'A blanket statement that 'you're a wonderful person' is not appropriate for somebody whose being sentenced for sexually assaulting two girls.'These are things that people consider when they're wondering whether or not it's worth it to report [their assault] to the police.' Sexual assault is one of the most under reported crimes, with more than a third of rapes going unreported, according to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network.

I thought a third of rapes going unreported seems very low. I thought the number was much higher. 

 

[Calm]

Usually it is closer to 10%.  If they found 1in 3, either that was likely defining rape differently or someone has significant success improving reporting.

I found one stat that said 54% go unreported...but until you know how they are defining rape and if they are measuring it to  the same definition across the board, it is impossible to tell imo.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

Rape stats are problematic:

https://newrepublic.com/article/119364/cdcs-report-one-five-women-raped-other-statistics-disagree

Edited April 15, 2017 by Calm

[bsjkki]

It got picked up by the AP so it is now everywhere.

[Storm Rider]

17 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

What was the grossly lenient sentence? Five years to life? The parole board in Utah will not allow him to be released until he has been through rehab. His sentence could wind up to be a natural life sentence.

I do not understand the logic of your last sentence. Are you saying that a person who leads an otherwise exemplary life should receive a harsher punishment than a person who is out and out depraved?

Do not get me wrong. I am of the opinion that any sex offender, such as a rapist or child molester should be put in a place where they are not a threat to harm anyone until (a) he has paid his debt to society and (b) has gone through a rehab program and has been deemed to no longer be a threat to society. The last part is maybe the most difficult to determine.

There are some who predators that will always be a threat to society. I don't know how good our therapists are in making those determinations. I don't know if a person can be clever enough to fool a good professional. We do know that rehab really helps in most cases.

And back to the point, it is not God's plan to punish a person forever for mistakes, even terrible ones, if the person sincerely repents. But one of the biggest problems that I can see is determining what actually a person's debt to society is in terms of years.

Glenn

Happy Easter Glenn,

This is certainly not a pleasant topic while thinking of the blessings of Easter.  I do think that leaders should be held to a much higher standard in the same way that I think that once we have progressed to a certain point where we have gained knowledge and committed to live a higher law we are held to a higher standard.

You mentioned both rape and child molesters - I don't know the recidivism rate for rapists, but it is very, very high for child molesters.  For punishment I am not as concerned about length of their prison term, but preventing any future possibility to repeat the heinous act.  I would support removing any possibility for them to repeat ever.  This is a harsh sentence, but it is just compensation to society that this individual will never be a threat to anyone for either of these crimes ever again.  For those who were their victims they can sleep peacefully that they will never have to endure such an act at the hands of their abuser.

I agree that repentance is the objective for each disciple of Jesus Christ, we try to live within a state of constant repentance.  However, the debt to society is impossible to fulfill - you cannot return the victim to a point where they were not sexually abused...ever.  

Not a pleasant topic at all.  God bless you and your family. 

[thesometimesaint]

9 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

 However, the debt to society is impossible to fulfill - you cannot return the victim to a point where they were not sexually abused...ever.  

Not a pleasant topic at all.  God bless you and your family. 

 

That can be said about any crime, even a traffic ticket. If our goal is to punish we're very good at that. Unfortunately punishment can only extinguish bad behaviors, but it can't replace them with good behaviors.

[Storm Rider]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

 

That can be said about any crime, even a traffic ticket. If our goal is to punish we're very good at that. Unfortunately punishment can only extinguish bad behaviors, but it can't replace them with good behaviors.

Hello TSS, I am not even sure that punishment extinguishes bad behavior within the penal system.  If that were true there would not be recidivism from those let out of prison, which is over 75% within five years after getting out of prison they commit another crime. 

I agree with you that simply punishment for crimes is not enough; out system must reform the individual to assist them in choosing good acts or acts beneficial within a civil, stable society.  

This goes outside of the thread; my comments were directed specifically for sexual predators that rape or sexually abuse children.  It is very difficult to actually determine the rate of sexual predator recidivism due to what experts understand of the low rate of reporting of sex crimes.  

An aside, in our home I do all of the cooking and my wife likes to bake.  She just finished some of her award winning butter-flake rolls.  It is manna from heaven - just to eat one out of the first batch with homemade raspberry peach jam is one of the great pleasures in life.  Happy Easter. 

[Gillebre]

I've read a little about this, and all of your responses, and I wanted to share what has been on my mind about it.

 

Justice must be satisfied, and the victims of this man's horrific crimes deserve that much, and all the healing the Lord can help them find in His Atonement. I don't know this judge or what his thoughts and intentions were, but I have some ideas. What others have said about the judge's sympathy for the man who did these things I think is very true. Perhaps this touched something in the mind of the judge about other people he has served or loved in his life who, through their choices and the giving in to terrible temptations, fell similarly in their own way. I choose to hope and believe that the sympathy shown for the offender is like the charity and love of Christ for the sinner who is mired in darkness of his own making..so lost, so fallen that coming back to the Lord is difficult beyond imagining. Yet the Lord has a perfect love of both the sinner and the victim of those sins..the Lord must bring justice and mercy for both of them. So complicated that would seem, I think. 

Our brother, Lucifer, was a good man at some point, an angel of light, and through his choices and horrible temptations of pride, lust for power, and dishonesty he fell so far that he became unable to repent or feel sincerity any more. The Lord loves this guilty son as much as the rest and will see both justice and mercy done as much as the individual soul well let Him. We just need to take care, and this judge should have done a better job of it, in the perception of his personal sympathies and how he expressed them in an inappropriate way.

I hope the victims of the former Bishop find peace and healing in the Lord someday, and the same for the sinner. We all need the Light..we need our Savior. Wandering far from Him...we ever need His redeeming love. As someone feeling very fallen myself in my own difficulties I hope to find that same love again. 

I also hope that something I wrote made sense. Have a Happy Easter, friends!

[thesometimesaint]

19 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Hello TSS, I am not even sure that punishment extinguishes bad behavior within the penal system.  If that were true there would not be recidivism from those let out of prison, which is over 75% within five years after getting out of prison they commit another crime. 

I agree with you that simply punishment for crimes is not enough; out system must reform the individual to assist them in choosing good acts or acts beneficial within a civil, stable society.  

This goes outside of the thread; my comments were directed specifically for sexual predators that rape or sexually abuse children.  It is very difficult to actually determine the rate of sexual predator recidivism due to what experts understand of the low rate of reporting of sex crimes.  

An aside, in our home I do all of the cooking and my wife likes to bake.  She just finished some of her award winning butter-flake rolls.  It is manna from heaven - just to eat one out of the first batch with homemade raspberry peach jam is one of the great pleasures in life.  Happy Easter. 

We are so good at punishing that only a very few want to go back to jail. We are not so good at giving them the skills necessary to stay away from jail.

Sounds delish. YUM

[JAHS]

Another look at what actually happened in the courtroom :
"A flood of criticism is flowing in about a Provo judge's handling of a sexual assault case. Constant calls have police evaluating how to keep the judge safe. The defendant's attorney is arguing statements from the bench are being taken out of context.
In an audio recording of the sentencing hearing, Low explains he sees five mitigating circumstances that would support a lesser punishment for Vallejo, and three aggravating factors that signal a need for incarceration. Explaining that those factors are not weighted equally, Low goes on to say that probation would not be appropriate because it would suggest Vallejo was not, in fact, guilty.
"I want to make it clear that court agrees with the verdict. I think the jury got it right. The court has no doubt that Mr. Vallejo is an extraordinarily good man and the letters written on his behalf were extraordinarily moving. But great men sometimes do bad things..
Low's statement Wednesday also addressed Kirby directly, calling her a "survivor" and voicing confidence she could become an advocate and comforter for others. He emphasized that Kirby and the second victim in the case were in no way responsible for the abuse they suffered.
"They were caught unawares in an environment and a place where they should have been at their safest, but that does not reflect on them. That could have happened to anyone," Low said.
In the wake of judge's controversial statement, a storm of complaints, safety worries

I think it's one of those situations where you had to have been there to see and hear all that was spoken to understand it better.

[Stargazer]

On 4/14/2017 at 8:23 PM, juliann said:

Defender of the Defended, Voice of the Voiced....

The synonym for atypical is unusual. And yes, it is not unusual. And no that does not mean "typical" males think that way since there is no way to define typical.to begin with. One only has to go through court cases to see how rape cases have been tried. Do you think women won't take rapists to court because they would rather party? 

Few are going to give it a rest until women are no longer subjected to thinking like this judge's. 

It's not just women who are victimized by rapists.  

http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2014/04/male_rape_in_america_a_new_study_reveals_that_men_are_sexually_assaulted.html

And women are frequently the perps.

So perhaps we shouldn't be laying everything at the feet of men.

But I'd say that the judge was being too sympathetic to this guy.

 

[juliann]

Quote

So perhaps we shouldn't be laying everything at the feet of men.

But no one was :-)

 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

 
In the wake of judge's controversial statement, a storm of complaints, safety worries

I think it's one of those situations where you had to have been there to see and hear all that was spoken to understand it better.

It sounds like it would be even worse had you been there. I notice this article doesn't mention the crying that accompanied the judge's praise of this "great man" rapist. Unfortunately, there is no way to clean up his out of place panegyric once it was out of his mouth. And this article just makes it worse, actually. What in the world did he think he was doing trying to please everyone?

It doesn't mean anything about him as a person. He made a mistake and he now realizes it. All it means is he shouldn't be judging rape cases. Good luck to him, have a happy life, but get off the bench. 

[bsjkki]

On 4/15/2017 at 8:22 PM, Gillebre said:

I've read a little about this, and all of your responses, and I wanted to share what has been on my mind about it.

 

Justice must be satisfied, and the victims of this man's horrific crimes deserve that much, and all the healing the Lord can help them find in His Atonement. I don't know this judge or what his thoughts and intentions were, but I have some ideas. What others have said about the judge's sympathy for the man who did these things I think is very true. Perhaps this touched something in the mind of the judge about other people he has served or loved in his life who, through their choices and the giving in to terrible temptations, fell similarly in their own way. I choose to hope and believe that the sympathy shown for the offender is like the charity and love of Christ for the sinner who is mired in darkness of his own making..so lost, so fallen that coming back to the Lord is difficult beyond imagining. Yet the Lord has a perfect love of both the sinner and the victim of those sins..the Lord must bring justice and mercy for both of them. So complicated that would seem, I think. 

Our brother, Lucifer, was a good man at some point, an angel of light, and through his choices and horrible temptations of pride, lust for power, and dishonesty he fell so far that he became unable to repent or feel sincerity any more. The Lord loves this guilty son as much as the rest and will see both justice and mercy done as much as the individual soul well let Him. We just need to take care, and this judge should have done a better job of it, in the perception of his personal sympathies and how he expressed them in an inappropriate way.

I hope the victims of the former Bishop find peace and healing in the Lord someday, and the same for the sinner. We all need the Light..we need our Savior. Wandering far from Him...we ever need His redeeming love. As someone feeling very fallen myself in my own difficulties I hope to find that same love again. 

I also hope that something I wrote made sense. Have a Happy Easter, friends!

I hope I can say this and have it make sense. I understand your comment and get it--I really do. The problem is, this judge did not act professionally in the courtroom. His actions hurt these victims and diminished the crime. He made questionable decisions throughout the trial and in how he managed this case. In our society, this crime particularly is under reported, under prosecuted, and convictions are rare. Victims are often not believed, blamed and shamed into silence. And, while I agree with much of what you say and understand these charitable feelings, the courtroom represents the justice side of the equation and the judge did not do his job appropriately. 

I was saddened to hear that a family in my stake has been harassed for reporting a hazing crime at my high school and getting a popular coach fired. Many made excuses for this coach because he didn't do anything wrong-he just showed poor judgement in letting a 'minor' hazing incident happen. He made a mistake, he admits it but that doesn't mean he should be able to coach children if he lacks good judgement. People have their sympathies and compassion so messed up that they felt justified threatening those who did the right thing and stood up for the poor young men who were victimized. At my school, the hazing incident was minor compared to what has happened in publicized cases in Idaho and Texas but that is why vigilance in stopping these crimes is so important. Misplaced sympathy has and continues to have dire consequences in the lives of sexual assault victims.

 

Edited April 18, 2017 by bsjkki

[The Nehor]

39 minutes ago, juliann said:

But no one was :-)

 

Still better then AquaMan.

[Calm]

32 minutes ago, juliann said:

What in the world did he think he was doing trying to please everyone?

I think this is the key problem.  It sounds better suited for family court.

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

Another look at what actually happened in the courtroom :
"A flood of criticism is flowing in about a Provo judge's handling of a sexual assault case. Constant calls have police evaluating how to keep the judge safe. The defendant's attorney is arguing statements from the bench are being taken out of context.
In an audio recording of the sentencing hearing, Low explains he sees five mitigating circumstances that would support a lesser punishment for Vallejo, and three aggravating factors that signal a need for incarceration. Explaining that those factors are not weighted equally, Low goes on to say that probation would not be appropriate because it would suggest Vallejo was not, in fact, guilty.
"I want to make it clear that court agrees with the verdict. I think the jury got it right. The court has no doubt that Mr. Vallejo is an extraordinarily good man and the letters written on his behalf were extraordinarily moving. But great men sometimes do bad things..
Low's statement Wednesday also addressed Kirby directly, calling her a "survivor" and voicing confidence she could become an advocate and comforter for others. He emphasized that Kirby and the second victim in the case were in no way responsible for the abuse they suffered.
"They were caught unawares in an environment and a place where they should have been at their safest, but that does not reflect on them. That could have happened to anyone," Low said.
In the wake of judge's controversial statement, a storm of complaints, safety worries

I think it's one of those situations where you had to have been there to see and hear all that was spoken to understand it better.

Did you listen to the recording? I agree with Juliann on this one.

22 minutes ago, juliann said:

It sounds like it would be even worse had you been there

No sexual assault victim should have to listen to a judge cry and call the abuser 'an extraordinary good man.' I thought his whole vocal demeanor screamed pastor and not judge. Not the time nor the place to give voice to this sympathy. 

https://soundcloud.com/user-592916436/judge-thomas-low-statement

From the Deseret News article: 

Saying that she never wanted to speak to anyone about what Vallejo did to her — not to a judge and jury, not to reporters, not to anyone — Kirby explained she came forward out of concern for other victims, and worries now that Vallejo's actions are being forgotten in the wake of Low's controversial statements.

"There's never going to be any kind of rectification for what's happened to me, but I can prevent it from happening to somebody else," Kirby said. "People need to know that you can fight back and you can have some small amount of justice restored to you."

This victim needs applause. Bringing this forward and bringing it to trial took incredible bravery and she did it to save others. She knew he was in a position of trust that enabled him to continue his vile acts and she stopped him.

[juliann]

AGH!  He spent more time choking up than talking. The sniffling builds to a crescendo when he has to choke out the sentence. This is just sick. I feel so so bad for the victims who were subjected to this.