Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Not unless you mean something different than what I thought. Waiver is "the act of choosing not to use or require something that you are allowed to have or that is usually required" (online dictionary definition). Isn't that what you meant? If so, then Bob misunderstood you. Nope (and you'll enjoy this so bask in your rightness) Scott is correct
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: As to the CFR: This is all I have to go on... Colonel Timothy J. Hogan is a United States Air Force Officer and the new ROTC Commander for both BYU and UVU. After graduating from the Air Force Academy in 1989, Hogan went to pilot training in Del Rio, Texas, and finished No.4 in his class. He flew a Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II, a close-air support attack aircraft, for twenty years and has more than one thousand hours of combat experience in places such as Iraq and Afghanistan. Hogan is a graduate and former instructor of the United States Fighter Weapons School. He has held various leadership positions, including squadron commander, vice wing commander, and United States Air Forces Europe and Africa Inspector General. Marriott School: What brought you to BYU? Col. Timothy J. Hogan: In the Air Force it is necessary to compete for command-level jobs, so I submitted an application for the ROTC commander position. It is an amazing opportunity being able to return to the ROTC and to teach the next generation of leaders. It is a very sought-after job; there were seven schools hiring—including BYU—and applications were narrowed down to fourteen. I was selected for BYU, and I am very humbled and blessed to be here. It appears that he both submitted an application and was "Selected" AKA assigned to BYU on of 7 possible schools he could have been assigned to. Wouldn't he have been allowed to decline the appointment? If not, then it was voluntary, through every step of the process. Presumably, it's still voluntary, as he could resign.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: Wouldn't he have been allowed to decline the appointment? If not, then it was voluntary, through every step of the process. Presumably, it's still voluntary, as he could resign. We've sunken to parsing words...
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 I've also tweeted the Marriott School of Business...awaiting reply
CA Steve Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 So, just to be clear, could a girl selected to ride in a parade who had an arthritic wrist and was wondering if she should be excused from moving her hand, be said to be wavering about asking for a waiver to be a waver? 3
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 41 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Of course...but I know I won't have to...since this is a true story...I trust my source completely At the very least, the story sounds garbled. For one thing, the commander at BYU is already the commander for the program at UVU, so it wouldn't be a matter of him transferring the program from BYU to UVU.
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 6 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Where does it say that the current commander Col. Timothy J. Hogan is LDS Oh, I see my confusion. I was looking at the army ROTC at BYU. According to the web page https://marriottschool.byu.edu/army/about/history The current commander of the army ROTC is LTC Forrest 'Chip' Cook. So for the Air Force branch - http://www.afrotcdet855.org/faculty-1/ Col. Hogan does not appear to be LDS, unlike his Army counterpart. 2
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 21 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Your link is to the Army ROTC at BYU. This discussion is about the Air Force ROTC. I see that now. I guess I missed it early in the thread.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: At the very least, the story sounds garbled. For one thing, the commander at BYU is already the commander for the program at UVU, so it wouldn't be a matter of him transferring the program from BYU to UVU. Ok so here's my offer...when confirmed you buy me lunch at a place of my choosing ...if it blows up in my face I buy you lunch at a place of your choosing...agreed?
Bob Crockett Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: Look again at what Johnnie Cake was saying. I think you misunderstood him. He was talking about BYU choosing not to require something (compliance with the honor code) that normally would be required. Isn't that what waiver means? By the way, you misspelled fairly. It's not "farely." I mis-spelled many words in my post.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) I've also emailed the BYU ROTC program at afrotc@byu.edu EDIT to Add: That my email was returned undeliverable at this BYU address...while not definitive...its a good sign of the correctness of my OP Edited January 24, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Ok so here's my offer...when confirmed you buy me lunch at a place of my choosing ...if it blows up in my face I buy you lunch at a place of your choosing...agreed? No. I'm opposed on principle to gambling. And I've never said this thing could not have happened. All I've done is assess credibility. Edited January 24, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: No. I'm opposed on principle to gambling. And I've never said this thing could not have happened. All I've done is assess credibility. Its not gambling...just a fun contest among close personal friends :-) I like Red Iguana should I be proven correct so not real pricey...but you feel free to take full advantage of my billfold
bsjkki Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 (edited) So, it looks like you UVU and BYU have a cross-enrollment agreement. UVU students must abide by the honor code while on BYU campus and during all ROTC activities. Why can't the non-member commander be held to this standard like the UVU students who have a class at BYU? Cross-Enrollment Agreement The University offers ROTC through a cross-enrollment agreement with Brigham Young University (BYU). Compliance with BYU standards, as listed in the current BYU catalog, is an obligation while participating in ROTC activities and at all times on the BYU campus. General information on Aerospace Studies (Air Force ROTC) and Military Science (Army ROTC) is given below. More detailed information is available in the appropriate BYU catalog listing. http://www.uvu.edu/catalog/current/departments/air-force-and-army-rotc/ Edited January 24, 2017 by bsjkki should post on my phone
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Its not gambling...just a fun contest among close personal friends :-) I like Red Iguana should I be proven correct so not real pricey...but you feel free to take full advantage of my billfold I don't even participate in office pools. That's how doctrinaire I am on the matter of gambling. If it turns out you are right, I will cheerfully acknowledge it on this thread (or another one if this ends up being shut down).
The Nehor Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said: I am aware of the reddit source posted above...but NO that was not my original source...it was from someone close to this story. Then why is this person not sharing the story publicly?
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I don't even participate in office pools. That's how doctrinaire I am on the matter of gambling. If it turns out you are right, I will cheerfully acknowledge it on this thread (or another one if this ends up being shut down). Wow that would be even better than you buying me lunch
Scott Lloyd Posted January 24, 2017 Posted January 24, 2017 19 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: I've also emailed the BYU ROTC program at afrotc@byu.edu EDIT to Add: That my email was returned undeliverable at this BYU address...while not definitive...its a good sign of the correctness of my OP You can contact them through their website on this page.
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Then why is this person not sharing the story publicly? He's not in a position to release the info just yet...although the decision has already been made from what I understand...
Johnnie Cake Posted January 24, 2017 Author Posted January 24, 2017 Just now, Scott Lloyd said: You can contact them through their website on this page. Already have...just waiting to hear back from them...
Robert F. Smith Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 11 hours ago, Five Solas said: Certainly appreciate your service, Robert. No one has suggested LDS have cornered the market when it comes to personal integrity. But a "proper" non-Mormon commander ought to be selected? One who will do what is pleasing to LDS (i.e., abstain from beer)? I don't think you've thought through the implication. This is our government we're talking about, not a Big Four accounting firm hosting college recruiting events (example from previous post). It's neither healthy nor sustainable to kowtow to every sub-culture's cultural preferences. --Erik It has worked for many decades, including when I was in the AFROTC at BYU back in the 1960s. We'll see what the new SECDEF James Mattis has to say about that hoity toity Colonel who just can't get with the program -- like all those who have preceded him. You may have heard about what General Mattis did to a Marine Colonel who was too timid in combat in Iraq -- he relieved him of his command personally, on the spot. 1
Buckeye Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: He's the commander for the ROTC program at UVU as well. So UVU having a higher number of interested students (assuming it does) would not be a factor. Building proximity to the largest concentration of cadets would counsel for a move to uvu. That concentration is pure speculation on my part but it would make sense. 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 4 hours ago, california boy said: More speculation of course. And what if he is gay? Should he forgo his marriage? If we had some ham we could have ham and eggs, but we don't have any eggs.
Calm Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 6 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Again...it is an assigned position not one the commander in charge asked for Except for the fact he applied for a ROTC job. He didn't have to do that. 1
Bernard Gui Posted January 25, 2017 Posted January 25, 2017 Info on Air Force ROTC instructors: Quote AFROTC Instructor Applications Due Military.com | Week of May 25, 2015 Eligible lieutenants, captains and majors interested in summer 2016 and remaining 2015 AFROTC instructor opportunities must submit their Airmen Development Plan to the Air Force Personnel Center by May 30, 2015. There are 195 instructor positions available between now and summer of 2016 at 124 educational institutions nationwide. Applicants must be active duty Air Force line officers with three years' time on station as of September 30, 2016, or be in a mandatory move status during the summer of 2016 or eligible for a return from overseas January-May 2016. Quote You will be taught by a world-class military faculty supplemented with distinguished speakers who bring policy and history to life through firsthand experience. Each instructor is an active duty Air Force Officer and is usually accorded the academic rank of assistant professor. The unit commander has an academic rank of full professor. Quote Air Force ROTC Instructors All instructors must have a minimum of a bachelor's degree in a field related to the subject they teach. They must also have a minimum of 20 years of active duty, have already applied for retirement within the last six months, or have been retired for less than five years. Although not a requirement, most instructors also have a master's degree or higher. As well as academic qualifications and experience, ROTC instructors must meet Department of Defense weight, body and fat standards and display high standards of military bearing and moral character.... Although ROTC instructors are selected and certified by the branch of the armed forces they represent, they are also employees of the school district, college or university where they work. Therefore, they may require additional state licensing and certification. The qualifications and experience required to become licensed teachers varies by state. Some states have special programs designed to assist retired military personnel to become instructors, such as the Troops to Teachers program in Alabama. 1
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