mnn727 Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 On 12/31/2016 at 9:55 PM, Tacenda said: Paying thousands for a set for a few nights for a Christmas program isn't waste? I guess I'm losing it or very out of touch. And these items are thrown away, not re-purposed? Are you positive? I would think that having a Christmas pageant is also a form of Missionary work.
VAUFLDS Posted January 2, 2017 Posted January 2, 2017 Paid on gross AFTER subtracting out 401K and Social Security payments. Makes it easy. Don't have to keep track of earnings on 401K. Just pay on what I take out later. My way of handling Social Security gets around the issue of not knowing how long I will live. Works for me.
mfbukowski Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 7 hours ago, Teancum said: Well I apologize for thinking you did not know about real estate. You know what they say about assuming. Cant really move. My business is where I live and at this point in life it is to late to change and I would lose too much financially to move. You and I and others whose circles we run in may have seen the real estate crisis coming but that many did not. I am not sure that makes them fools. In virtually all cycles what goes down eventually comes up- usually. In stocks that does not always work- values can theoretically go to zero. When you get caught like that you just have to ride it out. I have a friend who saw his retirement go down 40% before he got scared and sold. Bad move- now, 8 years later, it's back to where it would have been. 8 years lost without a gain, but at least it came back. No need for apologies- I got pretty ego involved in that little exchange as well. 2
The Nehor Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 8 hours ago, Teancum said: Can you give us some specific examples? Not with names and references. A small church that ran an a charitable program that was idiotically managed in such a way that it was a lawsuit magnet. Another that tried to run a senior center and childcare facility to help the public but had no idea how to estimate costs and went into debt selling church bonds to the congregation to stay afloat until the congregation couldn't invest any more and the church went under. Had a friend who has a few thousand dollars in church bonds from them. Their only value now is as toilet paper. Those are just two I know of. I am sure you can find others.
Tacenda Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 16 hours ago, mnn727 said: And these items are thrown away, not re-purposed? Are you positive? I would think that having a Christmas pageant is also a form of Missionary work. Yes, thrown away according to our friend who puts up and takes down things in the conference center. Going off memory, it was made out of a foam product, probably something not reusable, but pianos are. I admit this is coming from my husband who has lunch with him often. So it could have been misunderstood, but my husband said it was clear to him what he heard. So take it for what it's worth, like I said.
stemelbow Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 You'd have to be pretty ignorant of business in any sense to not realize the Church has waste in its operations. There really is no escaping it. And those of us who have worked for the Church have seen it first hand. But the waste I'm talking about seems inevitable in today's world for any business. Not every dollar spent by the Church is used to maximize efficiency. No doubt, though, employees and leaders try in many ways to be good stewards as they say. In other ways, the business has simply made room for waste. That's about all I need to say. I'm not sure, because I simply haven't investigated it, whether the Church is less or more wasteful than other certain orgs I've worked for. but in many ways there certainly is similarity. 3
bluebell Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 19 minutes ago, Tacenda said: Yes, thrown away according to our friend who puts up and takes down things in the conference center. Going off memory, it was made out of a foam product, probably something not reusable, but pianos are. I admit this is coming from my husband who has lunch with him often. So it could have been misunderstood, but my husband said it was clear to him what he heard. So take it for what it's worth, like I said. Our chapel has old pianos in the attic. Apparently they don't throw all pianos away, which makes me wonder if maybe they had a reason to throw the ones away that they did, if that's what actually happen.
Tacenda Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, bluebell said: Our chapel has old pianos in the attic. Apparently they don't throw all pianos away, which makes me wonder if maybe they had a reason to throw the ones away that they did, if that's what actually happen. I'm sure there was. I guess the lady they paid for the props made some good money, and well deserved, so I really don't have a problem now the more I think about it. Especially when thinking about all the flowers they buy for different events etc. They also get thrown away.
Calm Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Tacenda said: Yes, thrown away according to our friend who puts up and takes down things in the conference center. Going off memory, it was made out of a foam product, probably something not reusable, but pianos are. I admit this is coming from my husband who has lunch with him often. So it could have been misunderstood, but my husband said it was clear to him what he heard. So take it for what it's worth, like I said. 2 hours ago, bluebell said: Our chapel has old pianos in the attic. Apparently they don't throw all pianos away, which makes me wonder if maybe they had a reason to throw the ones away that they did, if that's what actually happen. I find it hard to believe they would throw out undamaged pianos. They are a pain to store though, I believe, given it can damage the workings, warping the frame if not done correctly, which can take considerable time adjusting it to a different environment. They could very well have given them to whoever was willing to cart them away. That could be confused with throwing them away. http://lacefieldmusic.com/how-to-store-a-piano/ Edited January 3, 2017 by Calm 2
Popular Post JLHPROF Posted January 3, 2017 Author Popular Post Posted January 3, 2017 Fascinating how a thread on the tithing choices of the younger members (Millennials perhaps) turns into a thread on whether the Church wastes pianos. This board cracks me up some times. 7
Jeanne Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Just now, JLHPROF said: Fascinating how a thread on the tithing choices of the younger members (Millennials perhaps) turns into a thread on whether the Church wastes pianos. This board cracks me up some times. We like to cover all the bases! 1
Tacenda Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: Fascinating how a thread on the tithing choices of the younger members (Millennials perhaps) turns into a thread on whether the Church wastes pianos. This board cracks me up some times. My fault, I take all the blame. 1
halconero Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 I wonder if a generation which is wholly used to direct deposit has anything to do with it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe my generation to probably be the first to never have really received a paycheque (paycheck for you Yanks). It's always been direct deposit for me, and when I began paying tithing on my own I would just open up my online banking account, check the amount deposited by my work, and just gave 10% of that. I didn't even really think to check my pay stub for the gross amount, not out of a malicious desire to donate less, just because it wasn't something I was used to dealing with. I would also do the same with the 10% of my tax return, also deposited automatically. Not that older generations don't get direct deposit, but I'd imagine a good number of them grew up at a time where a pay cheque and figuring out your own taxes was a thing. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong on that and still don't really get the income tax system and automatic deductions. 4
bluebell Posted January 3, 2017 Posted January 3, 2017 Here's a question. What about money that has already been tithed? For example, say you inherit $100,000 from a parent and you know they had already paid tithing on it. Do you pay tithing on it yourself?
JLHPROF Posted January 3, 2017 Author Posted January 3, 2017 3 hours ago, bluebell said: Here's a question. What about money that has already been tithed? For example, say you inherit $100,000 from a parent and you know they had already paid tithing on it. Do you pay tithing on it yourself? Absolutely. Every person is responsible to pay tithing on their increase. That's like asking if your boss pays tithing on his business revenue (some do) do you still need to tithe your paycheck?
bluebell Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Absolutely. Every person is responsible to pay tithing on their increase. That's like asking if your boss pays tithing on his business revenue (some do) do you still need to tithe your paycheck? I'm with ya. But, when i was serving a mission they specifically told us not to pay tithing on the money we got each month because it had already been tithed. So what's the difference?
Jeanne Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 4 hours ago, Tacenda said: My fault, I take all the blame. I forgive you. You are like me..one question leads to a thousand... 1
Johnnie Cake Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) Why does this thread put a smile on my face... because I've learned that so many poster whom I previously viewed as religious dogmatists are actually pragmatic I'll pay what I want tithe payers. tithing is 10% of gross income...it warms my heart that so many believers here have entered the doors of apostasy by not paying a full tithe...there's hope for the members of this board after all. Edited January 4, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
bluebell Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 33 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Why does this thread put a smile on my face... because I've learned that so many poster whom I previously viewed as religious dogmatists are actually pragmatic I'll pay what I want tithe payers. tithing is 10% of gross income...it warms my heart that so many believers here have entered the doors of apostasy by not paying a full tithe...there's hope for the members of this board after all. Where does the church teach that tithing is 10% gross income?
SteveO Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 7 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Why does this thread put a smile on my face... because I've learned that so many poster whom I previously viewed as religious dogmatists are actually pragmatic I'll pay what I want tithe payers. tithing is 10% of gross income...it warms my heart that so many believers here have entered the doors of apostasy by not paying a full tithe...there's hope for the members of this board after all. Just...no Edited January 4, 2017 by SteveO
Johnnie Cake Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 17 hours ago, bluebell said: re does the church teach that tithing is 10% gross income? :-) https://www.lds.org/friend/2010/04/a-dime-from-a-dollar?lang=eng any more softballs? Oh and then there this... Quote The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay one-tenth of all their interest annually,' which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this." (First Presidency letter, 19 Mar. 1970 and this... Quote "President Howard W. Hunter stated it this way: ‘The law is simply stated as ‘one-tenth of all their interest. ‘Interest means profit, compensation, increase. It is the wage of one employed, the profit from the operation of a business, the increase of one who grows or produces, or the income to a person from any other source. ‘The Lord said it is a standing law ‘forever’ as it has been in the past.’ (In Conference Report, Apr. 1964, 35).” But hey...I'd prefer you continue to pay a partial tithe...or better yet...nothing...so please disregard what these sources have said Edited January 4, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Popular Post bluebell Posted January 4, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 4, 2017 (edited) 26 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: :-) https://www.lds.org/friend/2010/04/a-dime-from-a-dollar?lang=eng any more softballs? Oh and then there this... and this... But hey...I'd prefer you continue to pay a partial tithe...or better yet...nothing...so please disregard what these sources have said You should try again, because neither of those quotes say that one must pay on gross to be a full tithe payer. The CFR still stands. Edited January 4, 2017 by bluebell 5
The Nehor Posted January 4, 2017 Posted January 4, 2017 34 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: :-) https://www.lds.org/friend/2010/04/a-dime-from-a-dollar?lang=eng any more softballs? Oh and then there this... and this... But hey...I'd prefer you continue to pay a partial tithe...or better yet...nothing...so please disregard what these sources have said It is kind of cute that you think an article from our children's magazine about non-taxed income is taking a stand on gross vs net. Shows a great deal of idiocy, but it is also cute. That you are smug and condescending about it just makes it even cuter. 2
mnn727 Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 18 hours ago, bluebell said: Where does the church teach that tithing is 10% gross income? No where 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, bluebell said: You should try again, because neither of those quotes say that one must pay on gross to be a full tithe payer. The CFR still stands. Are you intentionally trying to put a smile on my face...or are you just setting me up to say just kidding that you've always paid a full tithe. By parsing the words of your prophets to conform to your private interpretations of tithing IS the first step to apostasy BTW... Oh and CFR...Show me anywhere where your prophets have said a full tithe is 10% of net income...all I can find anywhere is 10% of income. Income = income not partial or net or after taxes but income but keep parsing...oh and I'll be more than happy to buy your first coffee...unless you've already gone there too 😜😀 Edited January 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
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