Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, The Nehor said: It is kind of cute that you think an article from our children's magazine about non-taxed income is taking a stand on gross vs net. Shows a great deal of idiocy, but it is also cute. That you are smug and condescending about it just makes it even cuter. Yeah it was cute wasn't it...but I can't help but mention that you failed to mention that I also quoted your prophets...yeah I know...that's inconvenient
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) To those of you "believers" who are paying a partial tithe on net income I have a question. Do you also pay a partial income tax on your net income? I mean if income really means net income...I'm sure the IRS owes a refund to a whole lotta people. Oh and remember that slippery road to hell begins by paying a partial tithe on net income and calling it full...and the road to jail begins by paying income taxes on net income and calling it full Edited January 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Yeah it was cute wasn't it...but I can't help but mention that you failed to mention that I also quoted your prophets...yeah I know...that's inconvenient Who also did not specify gross or net. They say to pay 10% of your income and do not specify. Your ability to read your own interpretation of the law into it when it say no such thing might be impressive but it is also nonsensical. 2
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 4 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: To those of you "believers" who are paying a partial tithe on net income I have a question. Do you also pay a partial income tax on your net income? I mean if income really means net income...I'm sure the IRS owes a refund to a whole lotta people. Oh and remember that slippery road to hell begins by paying a partial tithe on net income and calling it full... Actually that would make no sense at all. Kind of par for the course with you in this thread. You are basically saying we should only pay taxes only from our after tax income and create a fascinating paradox. The slippery road to hell is more likely to begin with taking advice on what constitutes the slippery road to hell from people who treat said road as a not very graceful slip and slide. I realize you are just lamely looking for a way to put LDS people on the defensive but you really need to come up,with a better reason we are all going apostate then "I was ignorant when I was LDS and had a certain view of tithing and anyone who does not match my shallow view is clearly a heretic." Do you also accuse LDS who drink herbal teas of being heretics? How about Coca-Cola? What other simplistic made-up formulas do you apply? 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 10 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Who also did not specify gross or net. They say to pay 10% of your income and do not specify. Your ability to read your own interpretation of the law into it when it say no such thing might be impressive but it is also nonsensical. But you freely admited to not paying your tithe on your "income". You pay 10% of your "net income"....quite a savings for you...and I for one approve. I'm ok with you paying on what ever part of your "income" you want Good on yeah....but don't call it a full tithe. You're only fooling yourself. You see income is one word and has 6 letters while net income is two words and has 9 letters and is quite different from the other...but like I stated earlier...please continue to pay a partial tithe not on your income as your prophets have asked but on your net income...because it makes both you and I happy...
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 15 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Actually that would make no sense at all. Kind of par for the course with you in this thread. You are basically saying we should only pay taxes only from our after tax income and create a fascinating paradox. The slippery road to hell is more likely to begin with taking advice on what constitutes the slippery road to hell from people who treat said road as a not very graceful slip and slide. I realize you are just lamely looking for a way to put LDS people on the defensive but you really need to come up,with a better reason we are all going apostate then "I was ignorant when I was LDS and had a certain view of tithing and anyone who does not match my shallow view is clearly a heretic." Do you also accuse LDS who drink herbal teas of being heretics? How about Coca-Cola? What other simplistic made-up formulas do you apply? Haha...you forget I approve of your rationalization, pay on net, call it full..we're both happy. Edited January 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 34 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Who also did not specify gross or net. They say to pay 10% of your income and do not specify. Your ability to read your own interpretation of the law into it when it say no such thing might be impressive but it is also nonsensical. But you freely admited to not paying your tithe on your "income". You pay 10% of your "net income"....quite a savings for you...and I for one approve. I'm ok with you paying on what ever part of your "income" you want Good on yeah....but don't call it a full tithe. You're only fooling yourself. You see income is one word and has 6 letters while net income is two words and has 9 letters and is quite different from the other...but like I stated earlier...please continue to pay a partial tithe not on your income as your prophets have asked but on your net income...because it makes both you and I happy...you have my complete respect...and this coming from someone who was dumb enough to actually pay a full tithe of 10% on my income instead of being smart like you and bluebell who only pay a partial tithe on net income..boy was I dumb not smart like you guys Let me know if paying taxes on net income works out too, ok Edited January 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 22 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: But you freely admited to not paying your tithe on your "income". You pay 10% of your "net income"....quite a savings for you...and I for one approve. I'm ok with you paying on what ever part of your "income" you want Good on yeah....but don't call it a full tithe. You're only fooling yourself. You see income is one word and has 6 letters while net income is two words and has 9 letters and is quite different from the other...but like I stated earlier...please continue to pay a partial tithe not on your income as your prophets have asked but on your net income...because it makes both you and I happy...you have my complete respect...and this coming from someone who was dumb enough to actually pay a full tithe of 10% on my income instead of being smart like you and bluebell who only pay a partial tithe on net income..boy was I dumb not smart like you guys Let me know if paying taxes on net income works out too, ok So by your logic when I say I get paid $1500 a week I must mean gross pay and not net pay or take home pay despite that being common usage? Do you realize that pretending to be stupider then you actually are is like your mother telling you not to make faces because it will stick like that? Except in this case it actually does happen? Perhaps the process has already begun? Are we too late? 34 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said: Haha...you forget I approve of your rationalization, pay on net, call it full..we're both happy. But wait, I claimed revelation and that does not equal rationalization. Rationally I would probably pay on gross and did for most of my life. So it was either revelation or some kind of hallucination. For someone who above attempted to trap me with a bad case of logic you sure do throw it out when it is convenient. Reminds me of the devil in Lewis's Perelandra. Capable of reason but getting no joy out of it. Using reason only as a weapon and not as a tool to discover truth. A very dull and vapid intellect of little use. I think there is still time to recover if you act quickly. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 9 minutes ago, The Nehor said: So by your logic when I say I get paid $1500 a week I must mean gross pay and not net pay or take home pay despite that being common usage? Do you realize that pretending to be stupider then you actually are is like your mother telling you not to make faces because it will stick like that? Except in this case it actually does happen? Perhaps the process has already begun? Are we too late? But wait, I claimed revelation and that does not equal rationalization. Rationally I would probably pay on gross and did for most of my life. So it was either revelation or some kind of hallucination. For someone who above attempted to trap me with a bad case of logic you sure do throw it out when it is convenient. Reminds me of the devil in Lewis's Perelandra. Capable of reason but getting no joy out of it. Using reason only as a weapon and not as a tool to discover truth. A very dull and vapid intellect of little use. I think there is still time to recover if you act quickly. Well done brother...getting revelation to support your rationalization is even better...I love it...oh and I'll save you a seat on this side of the fence
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) ' Edited January 5, 2017 by Johnnie Cake Duplicate
Popular Post Calm Posted January 5, 2017 Popular Post Posted January 5, 2017 I just love it when nonbelievers tell us what we have to believe or else we are lying to ourselves about our own doctrine. 6
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 11 minutes ago, Calm said: I just love it when nonbelievers tell us what we have to believe or else we are lying to ourselves about our own doctrine. Lovely. You tithe on net also? Wonderful
The Nehor Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) Edit: Removed, I am done. I can probably win the insult war but it is like the old meme of playing checkers with a pigeon. Even when you win the pigeon just craps all over the board and struts around as if it won. Edited January 5, 2017 by The Nehor 1
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 18 minutes ago, The Nehor said: ... something horrific enough to deserve listening to your drivel for eternity. I honestly don't think that, even in my most depraved moments, I can imagine a sin that horrific! Edited January 5, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan
bluebell Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Calm said: I just love it when nonbelievers tell us what we have to believe or else we are lying to ourselves about our own doctrine. Well, they gotta keep up their morale somehow. 2
bluebell Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Are you intentionally trying to put a smile on my face...or are you just setting me up to say just kidding that you've always paid a full tithe. By parsing the words of your prophets to conform to your private interpretations of tithing IS the first step to apostasy BTW... Oh and CFR...Show me anywhere where your prophets have said a full tithe is 10% of net income...all I can find anywhere is 10% of income. Income = income not partial or net or after taxes but income but keep parsing...oh and I'll be more than happy to buy your first coffee...unless you've already gone there too 😜😀 Just trying to get you to actually answer the CFR. Hope springs eternal. 2
Hamba Tuhan Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 33 minutes ago, bluebell said: Just trying to get you to actually answer the CFR. Hope springs eternal. Hoping to help Johnnie out, I found the CFR for him on lds.org: Quote Do I pay tithing on my income before taxes are taken out or on what I receive after taxes? The First Presidency has answered this question in this way: “The simplest statement we know of is the statement of the Lord himself, namely, that the members of the Church should pay ‘one-tenth of all their interest annually,’ which is understood to mean income. No one is justified in making any other statement than this” (First Presidency letter, Mar. 19, 1970). In other words, the way you define your income, and consequently your tithing, is a matter between you and the Lord. Prayerfully seek the Lord’s guidance on issues like taxes, gifts, scholarships, and other matters to determine what qualifies as a full tithe. Oh wait... 2
Calm Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said: Lovely. You tithe on net also? Wonderful I tithe on gross, net, and increase...0, 0, 0. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 52 minutes ago, bluebell said: Just trying to get you to actually answer the CFR. Hope springs eternal. Interesting.... don't worry, I'm happy for you...stop paying I'll be even happier
Tacenda Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 I use to pay on gross and not pay on our return. Then I turned to net and paid on our tax return. I remember not paying on a tax return once and feeling so guilty. So I kind of see where Johnnie Cake is coming from.
rongo Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 7 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said: Interesting.... don't worry, I'm happy for you...stop paying I'll be even happier I think your end zone dance is a little premature, Craig. I pay on gross --- and I even pay on my tax refund. And, I'm going to pay on my pension and social security when the time comes (if they are even around and available then). My wife pays 10% of her full Pell Grant --- not just what is left after tuition and books. Judging from tithing settlement, most of the full-tithe payers in my ward appear to me to pay on gross as well. Either that, or man, their net is really, really big (I'm not in a high-income area)! Ditto for another ward in the stake I was a bishop over. So, paying on gross is alive and well among many active Latter-day Saints. Or so it would appear to me.
Scott Lloyd Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 (edited) 53 minutes ago, rongo said: I think your end zone dance is a little premature, Craig. I pay on gross --- and I even pay on my tax refund. And, I'm going to pay on my pension and social security when the time comes (if they are even around and available then). My wife pays 10% of her full Pell Grant --- not just what is left after tuition and books. Judging from tithing settlement, most of the full-tithe payers in my ward appear to me to pay on gross as well. Either that, or man, their net is really, really big (I'm not in a high-income area)! Ditto for another ward in the stake I was a bishop over. So, paying on gross is alive and well among many active Latter-day Saints. Or so it would appear to me. Chalk me up as one of those silly neanderthals who still pay on gross. My reasoning is that I have in theory received value for the portion of my pay that does not show up in the net; I have thus benefited thereby and ought to tithe all of my pay, not just a portion. If I'm going to err when it comes to tithing, I want it to be on the side of paying too much, I've never regretted that outlook. Edited January 5, 2017 by Scott Lloyd
Rain Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 On Tuesday, January 03, 2017 at 0:55 PM, halconero said: I wonder if a generation which is wholly used to direct deposit has anything to do with it? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe my generation to probably be the first to never have really received a paycheque (paycheck for you Yanks). It's always been direct deposit for me, and when I began paying tithing on my own I would just open up my online banking account, check the amount deposited by my work, and just gave 10% of that. I didn't even really think to check my pay stub for the gross amount, not out of a malicious desire to donate less, just because it wasn't something I was used to dealing with. I would also do the same with the 10% of my tax return, also deposited automatically. Not that older generations don't get direct deposit, but I'd imagine a good number of them grew up at a time where a pay cheque and figuring out your own taxes was a thing. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong on that and still don't really get the income tax system and automatic deductions. I think this is a really good possibility. With my husband's newest job we don't get a paper pay stub like we did 3 years ago. I take care of the money and it is a pain sometimes because he has to go to his company's internal website on his company given computer to access the info, copy it and send it to me whenever the amount changes so I can see if something was a reimbursement for this or extra pay for that etc. I don't know if my 22 year old has ever seen a paystub. 1
bluebell Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 10 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: Hoping to help Johnnie out, I found the CFR for him on lds.org: Oh wait... It's nice of you to help him. He's certainly drowning on his own. 2
Johnnie Cake Posted January 5, 2017 Posted January 5, 2017 3 hours ago, rongo said: I think your end zone dance is a little premature, Craig. I pay on gross --- and I even pay on my tax refund. And, I'm going to pay on my pension and social security when the time comes (if they are even around and available then). My wife pays 10% of her full Pell Grant --- not just what is left after tuition and books. Judging from tithing settlement, most of the full-tithe payers in my ward appear to me to pay on gross as well. Either that, or man, their net is really, really big (I'm not in a high-income area)! Ditto for another ward in the stake I was a bishop over. So, paying on gross is alive and well among many active Latter-day Saints. Or so it would appear to me. You have my compete respect...I too paid a full tithe when I paid tithing...I'm just getting a kick out of some of the members of this board who pay a net tithe and call if full...and yes that does make me happy to see the parsing taking place among believers...it gives me hope
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