Elder Benson Conference Talk/Report (1967)

[mnn727]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

Can't edit.  How are you comparing them, your measures that come out the same?

Also, how familiar were/are you with the Black Panthers as well as BLM?  How much have you studied them?  From where have you gotten your info on them?

 

I lived through both movements - did you?

[ERayR]

42 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Benson was a racist. But Benson wasn't/isn't the Church. My testimony wasn't/isn't based on Benson's political idea's. For which I'm eternally grateful. 

I don't see it in the Book of Mormon. Both Nephites and Lamanites were Lehites to begin with.

It is clear to me you do not have a clue about the Benson family.

[thesometimesaint]

“LOGAN, UTAH-Former Agriculture Secretary Ezra Taft Benson charged Friday night that the civil-rights movement in the South had been ‘formatted almost entirely by the Communists.’ Elder Benson, a member of the Council of the Twelve of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said in a public meeting here that the whole civil-rights movement was ‘phony.'” (Deseret News, Dec. 14, 1963)

“The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. While it can be thwarted in a fairly short period of time merely by sufficient exposure, the evil effects of what has already been accomplished cannot be removed overnight. The animosities, the hatred, the extension of government control into our daily lives–all this will take time to repair. The already-inflicted wounds will be slow to heal. First of all, we must not place blame on the Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder. Not one in a thousand Americans–black or white–really understands the full implications of today’s civil-rights agitation. The planning, direction, and leadership come from the Communists, and most of those are white men who fully intend to destroy America by spilling Negro blood, rather than their own.
Next, we must not participate in any so-called ‘blacklash’ activity which might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan. This is one of the best ways to force the decent Negro into cooperating with militant Negro groups. The Communists are just as anxious to spearhead such anti-Negro actions as they are to organize demonstrations that are calculated to irritate white people.
We must insist that duly authorized legislative investigating committess launch an even more exhaustive study and expose the degree to which secret Communists have penetrated into the civil rights movement. The same needs to be done with militant anti-Negro groups. This is an effective way for the American people of both races to find out who are the false leaders among them” (Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference Report, Oct. 1967).

[Jeanne]

1 minute ago, thesometimesaint said:

“LOGAN, UTAH-Former Agriculture Secretary Ezra Taft Benson charged Friday night that the civil-rights movement in the South had been ‘formatted almost entirely by the Communists.’ Elder Benson, a member of the Council of the Twelve of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said in a public meeting here that the whole civil-rights movement was ‘phony.'” (Deseret News, Dec. 14, 1963)

“The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. While it can be thwarted in a fairly short period of time merely by sufficient exposure, the evil effects of what has already been accomplished cannot be removed overnight. The animosities, the hatred, the extension of government control into our daily lives–all this will take time to repair. The already-inflicted wounds will be slow to heal. First of all, we must not place blame on the Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder. Not one in a thousand Americans–black or white–really understands the full implications of today’s civil-rights agitation. The planning, direction, and leadership come from the Communists, and most of those are white men who fully intend to destroy America by spilling Negro blood, rather than their own.
Next, we must not participate in any so-called ‘blacklash’ activity which might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan. This is one of the best ways to force the decent Negro into cooperating with militant Negro groups. The Communists are just as anxious to spearhead such anti-Negro actions as they are to organize demonstrations that are calculated to irritate white people.
We must insist that duly authorized legislative investigating committess launch an even more exhaustive study and expose the degree to which secret Communists have penetrated into the civil rights movement. The same needs to be done with militant anti-Negro groups. This is an effective way for the American people of both races to find out who are the false leaders among them” (Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference Report, Oct. 1967).

Totally bazaar..IMO.

[ERayR]

2 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

“LOGAN, UTAH-Former Agriculture Secretary Ezra Taft Benson charged Friday night that the civil-rights movement in the South had been ‘formatted almost entirely by the Communists.’ Elder Benson, a member of the Council of the Twelve of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, said in a public meeting here that the whole civil-rights movement was ‘phony.'” (Deseret News, Dec. 14, 1963)

“The Communist program for revolution in America has been in progress for many years and is far advanced. While it can be thwarted in a fairly short period of time merely by sufficient exposure, the evil effects of what has already been accomplished cannot be removed overnight. The animosities, the hatred, the extension of government control into our daily lives–all this will take time to repair. The already-inflicted wounds will be slow to heal. First of all, we must not place blame on the Negroes. They are merely the unfortunate group that has been selected by professional Communist agitators to be used as the primary source of cannon fodder. Not one in a thousand Americans–black or white–really understands the full implications of today’s civil-rights agitation. The planning, direction, and leadership come from the Communists, and most of those are white men who fully intend to destroy America by spilling Negro blood, rather than their own.
Next, we must not participate in any so-called ‘blacklash’ activity which might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan. This is one of the best ways to force the decent Negro into cooperating with militant Negro groups. The Communists are just as anxious to spearhead such anti-Negro actions as they are to organize demonstrations that are calculated to irritate white people.
We must insist that duly authorized legislative investigating committess launch an even more exhaustive study and expose the degree to which secret Communists have penetrated into the civil rights movement. The same needs to be done with militant anti-Negro groups. This is an effective way for the American people of both races to find out who are the false leaders among them” (Ezra Taft Benson, General Conference Report, Oct. 1967).

Why did you post this?

 

[ERayR]

Just now, Jeanne said:

Totally bazaar..IMO.

Why?

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, ERayR said:

Why?

It just seems so fear motivated and I just don't think everything in the 60's was just promoted by communism.  I believe there were some real evolving and promising reasons for the good of the civil right movement.  Something that belongs to the progression of our US citizens and progress of our own.

[thesometimesaint]

Just quoting a small example of ETB's racism.

[ERayR]

3 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

It just seems so fear motivated and I just don't think everything in the 60's was just promoted by communism.  I believe there were some real evolving and promising reasons for the good of the civil right movement.  Something that belongs to the progression of our US citizens and progress of our own.

Did you live through that period?  I did.

 

[Jeanne]

2 minutes ago, ERayR said:

Did you live through that period?  I did.

 

Yes.

[ERayR]

4 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

Just quoting a small example of ETB's racism.

You read it much differently than I did. 

" Next, we must not participate in any so-called ‘blacklash’ activity which might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan. "

Sounds like he is warning all the races.

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

I lived through both movements - did you?

Yep, though wasn't particularly paying attention till the later years of the first.  

Are you going to answer my question?

[mnn727]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Yep, though wasn't particularly paying attention till the later years of the first.  

Are you going to answer my question?

Why? Its quite obvious you won't like my answer and that your mind is already made up on the matter.

Elder (at the time) Benson was correct, he just didn't realize how far the conspiracy was in America and what its ultimate goal was. He just saw a small part of the conspiracy that still goes on to this day with the ultimate goal to destroy America as we know it.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

Why? Its quite obvious you won't like my answer and that your mind is already made up on the matter.

You should stop reading assumptions into my post.  You may be quite right depending on what measures you are using.

Newsweek compared and contrasted them, for example, in a very effective way IMO:

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/14/black-panthers-black-lives-matter-505542.html

 

Edited November 28, 2016 by Calm

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

I think MLK would have been happy to see that the LDS church finally allowed blacks to have the priesthood...but that didn't take place until 1978, because that is when's God apparently changed his mind on this whole issue...

Or, that was precisely the right time for it to happen.

 

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

With the death of Fidel Castro this past week, it is amazing to me to reflect on what a feared and larger-than-life figure he was during my childhood and youth. His death scarcely gets a mention today.

And I never would have imagined he would still be alive when I had reached the age I am today.

Dang, I wish I was younger or more inclined to work for a living.

There's a ton of pent up demand for every possible consumer item in Cuba.  I suspect what is left of the Castro regime will collapse eventually

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Ouagadougou said:

 

MLK was clearly the leader of the Civil Rights movements in the 1960's until his death.  Such statements by Benson, IMO, go against MLK's great cause.  

I am sure you are aware, but even the BoM, IMO, has some racist verses.  Those verses are still scripture, right?  

It's hard to be a racist with your family members.

[Ouagadougou]

3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Boy you are stubborn (nothing like holding fast to what you don't want to know!), LOL! So the Civil Rights Act was passed in the year... as in my question, "When were civil rights laws first passed in the USA?"

Which statements in the talk go against MLK's great cause? The four I listed don't...

What statements in the talk are racist?

CFR the racist verses in the Book of Mormon, and how they are racist.

2 Nephi 5:21

If you have black skin then you are cursed...that's pretty racist in my opinion.  

And another reference from a different Apostle in the 1960's illustrating his racist views:

https://archive.org/stream/DelbertStapleyLetter/delbert_stapley_Letter_djvu.txt

This letter should make every member ashamed that apostles of the Lord had such ridiculous ideas about race (over 50 years ago).  

[Marmonboy]

If you're embarrassed for everything anyone ever did that was later thought to be wrong, you seriously have a problem. Now we know that what we thought back then was incorrect, but we need to get over it and move forward. Condemning the dead is unproductive.

[Jeanne]

14 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

2 Nephi 5:21

If you have black skin then you are cursed...that's pretty racist in my opinion.  

And another reference from a different Apostle in the 1960's illustrating his racist views:

https://archive.org/stream/DelbertStapleyLetter/delbert_stapley_Letter_djvu.txt

This letter should make every member ashamed that apostles of the Lord had such ridiculous ideas about race (over 50 years ago).  

Just read this letter.  I think I am going to be sick.  How does one wrap their minds around this?

[HappyJackWagon]

2 hours ago, ERayR said:

You read it much differently than I did. 

" Next, we must not participate in any so-called ‘blacklash’ activity which might tend to further intensify inter-racial friction. Anti-Negro vigilante action, or mob action, of any kind fits perfectly into the Communist plan. "

Sounds like he is warning all the races.

I agree. That particular quote didn't seem to racist but rather was warning against a kind of race-baiting and the way that white people might use black people for their political purposes.

[CV75]

40 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said:

2 Nephi 5:21

If you have black skin then you are cursed...that's pretty racist in my opinion.  

And another reference from a different Apostle in the 1960's illustrating his racist views:

https://archive.org/stream/DelbertStapleyLetter/delbert_stapley_Letter_djvu.txt

This letter should make every member ashamed that apostles of the Lord had such ridiculous ideas about race (over 50 years ago).  

But that is not what the verse says, (nor the surrounding verses). While the Lord recognized that a “black skin” might not be enticing to His people, and thus serve as a prophylactic to intermingling corrupt beliefs and practices and getting cut off from Him, there is nowhere to be seen the equating of a sore cursing with a black skin. I think this was a parochial measure for a parochial people, suitable for their time and place and culture. I think they (both the Lamanites and the Nephites) were far more ethnocentric than they were racist. The Nephites always referred to the Lamanites as their brothers, and recognized their common parentage; it was their disparate attitude toward the covenants (and how that spilled into violence) that separated them.

I don’t see how the content of Elder Stapley’s personal letter has anything to do with the content of Elder Benson’s talk (my questions about which you’ve ignored). I can see that Elder Stapley doesn’t seem to type or spell very well – do you think that is a valid conclusion from reading this link?

3 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

You sure like to throw the CFR around don't you? I don't have a lot of time and the CFR wasn't directed at me so I'll just list a couple of possibilities.

The cursing describes a skin of blackness that came upon them because of their iniquity so that they would not be enticing to the righteous. These dark skinned people were described as loathsome, idle, full of mischief and subtlety. Even the seed was cursed if it mixed.

Again, these are just a few verses. Do you really need someone to explain to you how this could be viewed as racist?

ETA: It's my belief that racism in the BoM is one of the imperfections of men and that we are intended to learn from their error.

But none of the views hold up to close scrutiny.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said:

2 Nephi 5:21

If you have black skin then you are cursed...that's pretty racist in my opinion.  

And another reference from a different Apostle in the 1960's illustrating his racist views:

https://archive.org/stream/DelbertStapleyLetter/delbert_stapley_Letter_djvu.txt

This letter should make every member ashamed that apostles of the Lord had such ridiculous ideas about race (over 50 years ago).  

Perhaps the transcription is accurate, perhaps not.

Whoever typed it up could neither spell nor proof read so it has no credibility in my opinion.  It might as well not even exist in this form- there is absolutely no reason to even think it is genuine.

I am not saying Elder Stapley was not racist- I am saying that the letter has no credibility as presented.  

And the fact is MOST white Americans had these attitudes over 50 years ago.  You are very naive.  

Edited November 28, 2016 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

All who think the Book of Mormon is racist need to listen to my friend Marvin Perkins, who occasionally posts here

The website for Blacks in the Scriptures is here:  http://blacksinthescriptures.com/

Edited November 28, 2016 by mfbukowski

[HappyJackWagon]

27 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But that is not what the verse says, (nor the surrounding verses). While the Lord recognized that a “black skin” might not be enticing to His people, and thus serve as a prophylactic to intermingling corrupt beliefs and practices and getting cut off from Him, there is nowhere to be seen the equating of a sore cursing with a black skin. I think this was a parochial measure for a parochial people, suitable for their time and place and culture. I think they (both the Lamanites and the Nephites) were far more ethnocentric than they were racist. The Nephites always referred to the Lamanites as their brothers, and recognized their common parentage; it was their disparate attitude toward the covenants (and how that spilled into violence) that separated them.

 

I don’t see how the content of Elder Stapley’s personal letter has anything to do with the content of Elder Benson’s talk (my questions about which you’ve ignored). I can see that Elder Stapley doesn’t seem to type or spell very well – do you think that is a valid conclusion from reading this link?

 

But none of the views hold up to close scrutiny.

You make it sound like no reasonable person could ever see racist ideas in the BoM. Can you explain why it is unreasonable to see racist ideology in this verse? I agree that it can be read as you're proposing but it requires a person to read between the lines to find a more palatable meaning than exists in the actual text.

Quote

2 Nephi 5:21 And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them.

I agree that the racist views do not hold up to scrutiny.