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Listening to the Prophets

coolguy

By coolguy
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JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Not really.  The Ensign contains the words of living prophets.  The JoD contains the words of dead ones.

Ensign trumps JoD.  

That's assuming any contradiction.  And your recency bias goes against scripture (if any man teach any gospel etc)

Besides, what's actually true trumps who says it and when they said it.  Time and person makes no difference if they're wrong.

Truth is all that matters in the end.

Edited by JLHPROF
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volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Not really.  The Ensign contains the words of living prophets.  The JoD contains the words of dead ones.

Ensign trumps JoD.  

There are probably more issues of the Ensign with the words of dead prophets than the words of living ones.

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6EQUJ5 Rising Star

6EQUJ5

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, volgadon said:

There are probably more issues of the Ensign with the words of dead prophets than the words of living ones.

I should clarify. 

The *current* edition of the Ensign is scripture.  Articles in past issues are scripture unless they have been overturned by more recent comments by a living prophet.  

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consiglieri Grand Master

consiglieri

Posted
Posted
14 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

So, you're saying it would be better to listen to you, instead of the prophets and apostles of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints?

Actually, that's not what I am saying at all.

Let me repeat what it is I actually said so you can see what a non sequitur your response to it its:
 

Quote

 

I am glad you find insight and application in reading General Conference talks.

My experience has been that studying the scriptures has been more beneficial to my spiritual progression.

 

Nothing about listening to me even implied.

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6EQUJ5 Rising Star

6EQUJ5

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

That is what the living prophets tell us . . .

And if we listen we will see the blessings and benefit in our lives.  The proof is in the pudding and living prophets never ask us to simply accept what they say.  They expect us to simply live it and gain a testimony.

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consiglieri Grand Master

consiglieri

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

And if we listen we will see the blessings and benefit in our lives.  The proof is in the pudding and living prophets never ask us to simply accept what they say.  They expect us to simply live it and gain a testimony.

What happens to those who do live what they say and find their lives cursed and not blessed?

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6EQUJ5 Rising Star

6EQUJ5

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, consiglieri said:

What happens to those who do live what they say and find their lives cursed and not blessed?

Following the living prophet is hard.  There will be challenges but the eternal reward outweighs any struggles faced in this life.  

We were not sent here on vacation.  We were sent here to be tested.

Edited by 6EQUJ5
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consiglieri Grand Master

consiglieri

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Following the living prophet is hard.  There will be challenges but the eternal reward outweighs any struggles faced in this life.  

We were not sent here on vacation.  We were sent here to be tested.

So whether we are blessed or cursed for following the living prophets, it is because they are true prophets?

You can understand why somebody might start thinking the game is rigged?

;)

 

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consiglieri Grand Master

consiglieri

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, volgadon said:

Then why have scripture at all?

A very important point!

I remember when I had been a member of the Church for about ten years--I had read and read and studied and studied until I knew what constituted "Mormon doctrine" inside and out.

I had read the standard works several times, as well.

But I finally came to the point where I seriously asked myself what the point was of continuing to read the scriptures when we were supposed to give priority to the words of the living prophets.

Should I read the scriptures just to memorize the names of places and people?  (I already knew the stories and had memorized the standard proof-texts.)

Was there really nothing the scriptures had left to teach me?

I struggled with this for several months.

It was only after a strange confluence of events and insights that I realized the scriptures had a wealth of knowledge to impart to me.  Likely an inexhaustible wealth.

And that the critical error I had made in reading them was in superimposing my beliefs upon them.

In other words, the scriptures couldn't teach me anything new because I refused to let them.

I was too busy making them say what I already believed.

Once I allowed the authors to speak for themselves, I found they had a great deal they wanted to tell me.

This was a turning point in my spiritual journey.

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volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

In the words of two or three witnesses, right?

The scriptures stand as a second witness to the words of the living prophets.  

“Always remember, there is no satisfactory substitute for the scriptures and the words of the living prophets. These should be your original sources” (“The Gospel Teacher and His Message” [address to CES religious educators, Sept. 17, 1976], 3).

 

As Ezra Taft Benson taught, the words of living prophets are not the scriptures.

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6EQUJ5 Rising Star

6EQUJ5

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, volgadon said:

“Always remember, there is no satisfactory substitute for the scriptures and the words of the living prophets. These should be your original sources” (“The Gospel Teacher and His Message” [address to CES religious educators, Sept. 17, 1976], 3).

 

As Ezra Taft Benson taught, the words of living prophets are not the scriptures.

Bruce R. McConkie:

Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. 

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_seven-deadly-heresies/

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volgadon Grand Master

volgadon

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Bruce R. McConkie:

Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. 

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_seven-deadly-heresies/

Was Bruce R. McConkie president of the church or even higher in seniority than Ezra Taft Benson? You are pitting the words of two dead prophets against each other, and yours is more junior.

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JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

Bruce R. McConkie:

Heresy six: There are those who believe or say they believe that Adam is our father and our god, that he is the father of our spirits and our bodies, and that he is the one we worship.

The devil keeps this heresy alive as a means of obtaining converts to cultism. It is contrary to the whole plan of salvation set forth in the scriptures, and anyone who has read the Book of Moses, and anyone who has received the temple endowment, has no excuse whatever for being led astray by it. Those who are so ensnared reject the living prophet and close their ears to the apostles of their day. “We will follow those who went before,” they say. 

https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/bruce-r-mcconkie_seven-deadly-heresies/

 

#1.  McConkie wasn't God's mouthpiece.  Did he have the approval of all 15 Apostles for his heresy discourse?  Without that this was just his opinion, not scripture.

Plus, he was just plain wrong.

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JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted
39 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

In the words of two or three witnesses, right?

The scriptures stand as a second witness to the words of the living prophets.

You know, in another discussion I would probably agree with you 100% on this.

The problem is the extreme to which you have taken it goes completely against both scripture and Joseph Smith who communed directly with God and Christ.

The living prophet (or as Brigham called them, the living oracles) are the most important.  But the teaching is also scriptural and in prophetic teachings that that does NOT give them sufficient authority to teach doctrine contradicting prior revelation.  Even an angel from heaven has no right to teach a doctrine contradicting a previous revelation.
 

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6EQUJ5 Rising Star

6EQUJ5

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

You know, in another discussion I would probably agree with you 100% on this.

The problem is the extreme to which you have taken it goes completely against both scripture and Joseph Smith who communed directly with God and Christ.

The living prophet (or as Brigham called them, the living oracles) are the most important.  But the teaching is also scriptural and in prophetic teachings that that does NOT give them sufficient authority to teach doctrine contradicting prior revelation.  Even an angel from heaven has no right to teach a doctrine contradicting a previous revelation.
 

But we can see the problem here.  You, for example, promote and embrace the heresy of Adam-God.  How is this "hobby" heresy any different from those who support the heresy of SSM or polygamy?

If we follow dead prophets we will be led astray, unfortunately.  Adam-God being a perfect example.  

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JLHPROF Grand Master

JLHPROF

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, 6EQUJ5 said:

But we can see the problem here.  You, for example, promote and embrace the heresy of Adam-God.  How is this "hobby" heresy any different from those who support the heresy of SSM or polygamy?

If we follow dead prophets we will be led astray, unfortunately.  Adam-God being a perfect example.

Again, you are assuming the doctrine to be false.  Based on what?  McConkie and Kimball had their opinion.  Brigham and Heber had their opinion.  One of them claimed revelation on the subject the other didn't.

Why would I take McConkie's scholarly opinion over the prophet Brigham's revelation?
And how do you know McConkie was right and Brigham was wrong other than McConkie lived after Brigham did?

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