Sensationalism

[Ahab]

7 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

There are just so many possibilities I'm sure I won't be able to consider everything...but I'll try to answer.

I'm inclined to think that whatever consensual activity happens in the married couples bedroom is between them and I have no desire or business trying to say what is or isn't appropriate. I think the 1st Presidency learned that lesson in the early '80's. 

I don't think it would be appropriate to bring additional participants into the bedroom even if consensual. It's certainly not my thing, but it still wouldn't be my business to condemn others who do. Nor would it be appropriate for me to claim that the activity between married people is destroying the family.

Kudos to you for being willing to share what you think but I think what you think is pathetic. 

Hmm.  Now if I only knew what to say to try to persuade you to have my point of view.

[Gray]

28 minutes ago, Ahab said:

I understand that you believe that so I can understand you being as obstinate in defending your position as I am defending my position.

We are simply on opposite sides on this issue, and you are as wrong as I am right.

I hope someday you'll change your mind. 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

There are just so many possibilities I'm sure I won't be able to consider everything...but I'll try to answer.

I'm inclined to think that whatever consensual activity happens in the married couples bedroom is between them and I have no desire or business trying to say what is or isn't appropriate. I think the 1st Presidency learned that lesson in the early '80's. 

I don't think it would be appropriate to bring additional participants into the bedroom even if consensual. It's certainly not my thing, but it still wouldn't be my business to condemn others who do. Nor would it be appropriate for me to claim that the activity between married people is destroying the family.

President Benson once said that, "No Nation can ever rise above the caliber of it's families". There are many things that take place between consenting adults of a sexual nature that many have dubbed "victimless crimes". On such thing is adultery, where there are always victims and broken homes. Pornography is another issue that destroys marriages (when repentance is not sought) leaving it it's wake broken homes and broken children. "The Family" of which I speak are all families where the actions or parents or children, is anything that causes the family to split, fracture, or dissolve. Be it (for Latter-day Saints) in the life and the next. Today we are awash with changing norms on relationships, gender and family. The issue of the day right now, is that of the vast number names and acronyms related to sexual behavior...each of began (or begins) with the redefining of marriage and family. 

It is within the drive to redefine everything as it relaties to the institution of marriage, gender that now endangers even our children in public bathrooms, school bathrooms, and now the warning that public schools and colleges can lose federal funding if they do not subscribe to all new norms. A police state (if you will) to force compliance. One day (easy to see) the revocation of 501c's that Churches have to also force each into compliance. The Scriptures are clear on all such issues, and the Church is clear in it's teachings, and if indeed the Church was established by God, with Christ as the Chief Cornorstone...we cannot be moved (as the song goes, "A tree planted by the waters, I shall not be moved". 

This topic and all that surrounds it is a secular one. But, being discussed on a website that by name identifys itself with Mormonism, makes it important to note that the position of the Church would be foremost in the discussion. If this were posted on a different site, it would look differently. As I said before, popular opinion does not determine what is right and one is wrong. Your own comments reflect that you have strongly held views on morality, while others more conservative views. Yet here we are in America, with free speech, and a Church with freedom of conscience, each seeking what they believe to be the high ground. What we have learned with all this redefining of marriage and gender from Adam until today, is this...

Freedom to express one's opinion is only good, "if" you think like those doing the redefining...otherwise it is hate-speech. Every issue I pointed out above has impacted, "The Family" and "My Family". If you would like to know how and why, let me know and I will send you a PM. 

If not...enough from me on this topic. Just know I speak from personal experience having been a victim of many of the "victimless crimes". 

[Ahab]

9 minutes ago, Gray said:

I hope someday you'll change your mind. 

Waste of your time because I am going to stick to what God has told me about how evil it is to have same sex sexual relations with someone and to bring children into that type of relationship while acting as if it is all good.

[Damien the Leper]

On 5/24/2016 at 10:45 AM, Mystery Meat said:

What choice do we have? 

But, I don't think God will be willing to "agree to disagree."

Which is why neither you nor any religion speak for God. 

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

Which is why neither you nor any religion speak for God. 

Well you certainly aren't speaking for God when you say that, I agree with that much.

[Gray]

17 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Waste of your time because I am going to stick to what God has told me about how evil it is to have same sex sexual relations with someone and to bring children into that type of relationship while acting as if it is all good.

Best of luck to you. 

[3DOP]

On 5/24/2016 at 10:32 AM, Rock_N_Roll said:

My family has been "touched" by SSM.  My brother-in-law is married to another man.  So far my family has not been destroyed.  In fact we remain as strong and loving a family as ever.  Go figure. 

Would that not mean that your brother-in-law is married to your brother?

[Damien the Leper]

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, Valentinus said:

But if it is your political views then it does not count. If we made all religions political parties would solve the problem?

[Damien the Leper]

19 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Well you certainly aren't speaking for God when you say that, I agree with that much.

I don't have the audacity, ignorance, narcissism and arrogance required to claim to speak for and on behalf of God.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

I don't have the audacity, ignorance, narcissism and arrogance required to claim to speak for and on behalf of God.

That's all well and good but you shouldn't have the audacity,  ignorance,  narcissism and arrogance required to claim that someone else isn't speaking for and on behalf of God when he actually is.

[ttribe]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

That's all well and good but you shouldn't have the audacity,  ignorance,  narcissism and arrogance required to claim that someone else isn't speaking for and on behalf of God when he actually is.

Are you claiming to be "speaking for God"?

[Damien the Leper]

3 minutes ago, Ahab said:

That's all well and good but you shouldn't have the audacity,  ignorance,  narcissism and arrogance required to claim that someone else isn't speaking for and on behalf of God when he actually is.

You believing a man speaks for God is an opinion, as is mine that he doesn't. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Are you claiming to be "speaking for God"?

Not at the moment but it probably won't be very long before I actually am, again.

Oh wait, he would say what I just now said, too.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Ahab said:

Kudos to you for being willing to share what you think but I think what you think is pathetic. 

Hmm.  Now if I only knew what to say to try to persuade you to have my point of view.

Maybe you could explain why it is pathetic. What don't you agree with?

[Ahab]

3 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

You believing a man speaks for God is an opinion, as is mine that he doesn't. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

An opinion yes but not just an opinion.  Even God has an opinion and I like having the same opinion he has as often as possible. 

And no we don't just have to agree to disagree.  You can disagree with God and me if and when you want to but we'll never agree that you just have to. 

[ttribe]

7 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Not at the moment but it probably won't be very long before I actually am, again.

Oh wait, he would say what I just now said, too.

Interesting.

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, Pa Pa said:

President Benson once said that, "No Nation can ever rise above the caliber of it's families". There are many things that take place between consenting adults of a sexual nature that many have dubbed "victimless crimes". On such thing is adultery, where there are always victims and broken homes. Pornography is another issue that destroys marriages (when repentance is not sought) leaving it it's wake broken homes and broken children. "The Family" of which I speak are all families where the actions or parents or children, is anything that causes the family to split, fracture, or dissolve. Be it (for Latter-day Saints) in the life and the next. Today we are awash with changing norms on relationships, gender and family. The issue of the day right now, is that of the vast number names and acronyms related to sexual behavior...each of began (or begins) with the redefining of marriage and family. 

It is within the drive to redefine everything as it relaties to the institution of marriage, gender that now endangers even our children in public bathrooms, school bathrooms, and now the warning that public schools and colleges can lose federal funding if they do not subscribe to all new norms. A police state (if you will) to force compliance. One day (easy to see) the revocation of 501c's that Churches have to also force each into compliance. The Scriptures are clear on all such issues, and the Church is clear in it's teachings, and if indeed the Church was established by God, with Christ as the Chief Cornorstone...we cannot be moved (as the song goes, "A tree planted by the waters, I shall not be moved". 

This topic and all that surrounds it is a secular one. But, being discussed on a website that by name identifys itself with Mormonism, makes it important to note that the position of the Church would be foremost in the discussion. If this were posted on a different site, it would look differently. As I said before, popular opinion does not determine what is right and one is wrong. Your own comments reflect that you have strongly held views on morality, while others more conservative views. Yet here we are in America, with free speech, and a Church with freedom of conscience, each seeking what they believe to be the high ground. What we have learned with all this redefining of marriage and gender from Adam until today, is this...

Freedom to express one's opinion is only good, "if" you think like those doing the redefining...otherwise it is hate-speech. Every issue I pointed out above has impacted, "The Family" and "My Family". If you would like to know how and why, let me know and I will send you a PM. 

If not...enough from me on this topic. Just know I speak from personal experience having been a victim of many of the "victimless crimes". 

You said a lot without addressing the issue of what is and what is not appropriate in the marital bedroom. You seem to be disagreeing with my point of view but you haven't shared how/why I'm wrong. What kind of consensual, marital relations would be inappropriate in your eyes?

[Ahab]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Maybe you could explain why it is pathetic. What don't you agree with?

Even in a bedroom, there are certain things 2 adults of the same sex should never do, regarding having sexual relations with each other, even if they both agree to do those things with or to each other in that bedroom.

Same sex sexual relations are never a good thing, wherever they happen, and the fact that some people of the same sex do things they ought not do to or with each other doesn't mean someone else should not be telling those people of the same sex that they should not be doing those things to or with each other. 

Clear enough for you to understand now?

 

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

You said a lot without addressing the issue of what is and what is not appropriate in the marital bedroom. You seem to be disagreeing with my point of view but you haven't shared how/why I'm wrong. What kind of consensual, marital relations would be inappropriate in your eyes?

Wow, I thought I addressed well  

[Damien the Leper]

19 minutes ago, Ahab said:

An opinion yes but not just an opinion.  Even God has an opinion and I like having the same opinion he has as often as possible. 

And no we don't just have to agree to disagree.  You can disagree with God and me if and when you want to but we'll never agree that you just have to. 

You assume you're on the same side as God by employing argument from authority which is a fallacy. Your belief that TSM is a prophet, belief in JS calling or belief in the restoration, etc does not validate your position. It is merely perceived truth which cannot be qualified, not even through apologetic speculation, rationalizations or reasoning.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Valentinus

[Ahab]

4 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

You assume you're on the same side as God by employing argument from authority which is a fallacy. Your belief that TSM is a prophet, belief in JS calling or belief in the restoration, etc does not validate your position. It is merely perceived truth which cannot be qualified, not even through apologetic speculation, rationalizations or reasoning.

I don't make assumptions.  I get ideas, often conflicting ideas, and then I check with God to see which ideas are the ones he approves of.  So I know I am on God's side, when I know that I am, not by relying on any assumptions but by God telling me which side he is on and me then agreeing to be on his side... step by step, building precept upon precept by following his guidance and accepting his assurances to me, personally. 

You talked as if you were operating under some false assumption yourself by stating I had assumed something which I had not assumed and instead of doing that you would have been better off asking me how I know and why I feel so sure about what I do know.

[Damien the Leper]

2 hours ago, Ahab said:

I don't make assumptions.  I get ideas, often conflicting ideas, and then I check with God to see which ideas are the ones he approves of.  So I know I am on God's side, when I know that I am, not by relying on any assumptions but by God telling me which side he is on and me then agreeing to be on his side... step by step, building precept upon precept by following his guidance and accepting his assurances to me, personally. 

You talked as if you were operating under some false assumption yourself by stating I had assumed something which I had not assumed and instead of doing that you would have been better off asking me how I know and why I feel so sure about what I do know.

By your logic, as poor as it is, I would be wrong if God affirmed, for me, something that you disagree with. By that logic, you're telling God what he can or cannot affirm or, at worst, some "evil spirit" (or any other paranoid supernatural theory) gave me the affirmation. Either way, it is audacious and ridiculous. 

Edited May 26, 2016 by Valentinus

[HappyJackWagon]

14 hours ago, Ahab said:

Even in a bedroom, there are certain things 2 adults of the same sex should never do, regarding having sexual relations with each other, even if they both agree to do those things with or to each other in that bedroom.

Same sex sexual relations are never a good thing, wherever they happen, and the fact that some people of the same sex do things they ought not do to or with each other doesn't mean someone else should not be telling those people of the same sex that they should not be doing those things to or with each other. 

Clear enough for you to understand now?

 

Um...sorry Ahab but you totally missed the question. PaPa asked if there was any kind of consensual sxual activity between a married couple (husband and wife) that would be inappropriate in the bedroom. Try again. Read the question, then read my response, then try answering again.