If the Lights Went Out In America

[Tacenda]

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/if-lights-went-out-america-0  Maybe the preppers are not so crazy.  In this interview with Ted Koppel, he mentions there being an 80 to 90 percent chance of a cyber attack on the power grid system that could affect millions.  

This is scary, I really need to get my act together.  In the interview it was mentioned the power could be off for up to two years.  This thought has never occurred to me.  

Ever since the deal with China and people from there cyber attacking US companies and stealing from them, it makes you wonder.  Saw this info on 60 minutes I believe.  

I really don't know what to think.  Just thought I'd post this, in case any of you out there are like me and haven't prepared like they should.  

Not to depress everyone, hopefully one of you can show that it can't happen and make my day!

Edited January 18, 2016 by Tacenda

[Duncan]

come to my house!!!! but bring a blanket and a bucket of KFC and we can make shadow puppets!

[thesometimesaint]

While preparation is good, no amount of preparation will stop a cyber-attack. A small standby generator sufficient to keep foods frozen a few days until they can be used or stored long term is not a bad idea. Also keep in mind that the US considers a cyber-attack on the power grid to be a Act of War. With ALL HELL unleashed  on the country that unleashed the attack. 

[strappinglad]

And with that cometh " the Abomination of Desolation " 

[thesometimesaint]

The results sure won't be pretty. Ugggh

[halconero]

There's a difference between being a prepper and being prepared, and it's mostly to do with mentality. I'm speaking from personal experience, but most self-described preppers I've met have this weird anticipation of disaster, as if they almost look forward to apocalyptic scenarios with a bit of relish. That or they have this obsessive fear regarding an imminent threat that always seems one week away.

I'm not saying that's you Tacenda, not by a long shot. Heck, I'm sure most of us here, myself included, periodically get scared of the latest threat to humanity, entertain end-of-the-world scenarios, and take some satisfaction in being well prepared. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

For instance, I have a couple utility knives/multitools, a hatchet, an axe, flashlights, matches, a map of the current city I'm in, a compass, own some rifles, etc. Now, I use most of these items semi-regularly because I enjoy camping and hiking, but I would be lying if I didn't consider their emergency use should it come to it.

I also make it a personal policy to buy a bulk item every time I do a grocery run. Some rice here, whatever cans of soup are on sale at the moment, and mostly recently 20 boxes of Pop Tarts (they were on sale for $2 + buy one get one free. I figured $20 was worth enjoying myself dietarily during the apocalypse). On top of that I'll usually take a class about once or twice a year that involves some practical skill. Most recently it was survival knots, but I've done some cooler ones of fire starting and self-defence.

All that said...before reading this I can't really think of the last time where I've thought of a doomsday scenario on a serious level or being concerned about one. Despite being more personally prepared for an emergency than most, I don't really relish or worry about one, or really think about it at all really. In a weird sort of way, being prepared has actually enabled me to just chill about things. There's little I can do regarding an EMP, a hacked electrical grid, or something else disastrous beyond what I've done right now.

That and the fact that it's been shown time and time again that people are more likely to cooperate and come together in disasters and the knowledge that I live in an area of Canada where the Church can served not just on a spiritual level, but can coordinate with local authorities on a logistical and humanitarian level means that (unless a nuke hits Calgary or something) at its worst I'll most likely be deprived of my comforts, but not of my life.

So that's my really long way of saying that while making sure our ducks are in order is an awesome and comforting thing to do, the motivations behind doing so should bring comfort and peace rather than fear, worry or even anticipation of disaster.

All that aside, I doubt it would be a political entity that attacks the States. Sure, Russian and Chinese ideologues might not get along with US ones, but a collapse in the infrastructure of either China or America would be devastating to either' economy. The Globalized nature of our economy means that there is little motivation for big-state actors to destroy each other in that manner. I'm not saying it couldn't or wouldn't happen, but that such a motivation would more likely exist among religiously motivated zealots of some kind, and there you get into the issue of their material/skills ability to do it.

[halconero]

5 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

And with that cometh " the Abomination of Desolation " 

I should send you a copy of my Prof's elaboration on what that exactly is. Cool/scary stuff.

Scriptural evidence indicates it was an Evocatio Deorum practiced by either Titus of Vespasian in their siege of Jerusalem. Really evil stuff.

[VideoGameJunkie]

I'm screwed and unprepared which is why I hope the disasters preceding the 2nd Coming are after my lifetime.

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, halconero said:

There's a difference between being a prepper and being prepared, and it's mostly to do with mentality. I'm speaking from personal experience, but most self-described preppers I've met have this weird anticipation of disaster, as if they almost look forward to apocalyptic scenarios with a bit of relish. That or they have this obsessive fear regarding an imminent threat that always seems one week away.

I'm not saying that's you Tacenda, not by a long shot. Heck, I'm sure most of us here, myself included, periodically get scared of the latest threat to humanity, entertain end-of-the-world scenarios, and take some satisfaction in being well prepared. I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

For instance, I have a couple utility knives/multitools, a hatchet, an axe, flashlights, matches, a map of the current city I'm in, a compass, own some rifles, etc. Now, I use most of these items semi-regularly because I enjoy camping and hiking, but I would be lying if I didn't consider their emergency use should it come to it.

I also make it a personal policy to buy a bulk item every time I do a grocery run. Some rice here, whatever cans of soup are on sale at the moment, and mostly recently 20 boxes of Pop Tarts (they were on sale for $2 + buy one get one free. I figured $20 was worth enjoying myself dietarily during the apocalypse). On top of that I'll usually take a class about once or twice a year that involves some practical skill. Most recently it was survival knots, but I've done some cooler ones of fire starting and self-defence.

All that said...before reading this I can't really think of the last time where I've thought of a doomsday scenario on a serious level or being concerned about one. Despite being more personally prepared for an emergency than most, I don't really relish or worry about one, or really think about it at all really. In a weird sort of way, being prepared has actually enabled me to just chill about things. There's little I can do regarding an EMP, a hacked electrical grid, or something else disastrous beyond what I've done right now.

That and the fact that it's been shown time and time again that people are more likely to cooperate and come together in disasters and the knowledge that I live in an area of Canada where the Church can served not just on a spiritual level, but can coordinate with local authorities on a logistical and humanitarian level means that (unless a nuke hits Calgary or something) at its worst I'll most likely be deprived of my comforts, but not of my life.

So that's my really long way of saying that while making sure our ducks are in order is an awesome and comforting thing to do, the motivations behind doing so should bring comfort and peace rather than fear, worry or even anticipation of disaster.

All that aside, I doubt it would be a political entity that attacks the States. Sure, Russian and Chinese ideologues might not get along with US ones, but a collapse in the infrastructure of either China or America would be devastating to either' economy. The Globalized nature of our economy means that there is little motivation for big-state actors to destroy each other in that manner. I'm not saying it couldn't or wouldn't happen, but that such a motivation would more likely exist among religiously motivated zealots of some kind, and there you get into the issue of their material/skills ability to do it.

(bold mine) I love that the church has put together committees that participate in plans of action in case of disaster in our wards/stakes!

[halconero]

Me too. I've seen it happen twice in my neck of the woods, both with floods actually.

Once in AZ on my mission when the towns of Wenden and Salome were flooded, and once in southern Alberta. In both cases the church was able to gather hundreds/thousands of volunteers in a rapid amount of time, the stake presidents coordinated together under the direction of the presiding stake president (the one whose area was affected) and the local area 70, and the efficiency of clean up, supply delivery, and aid was phenomenal to see. I'll say that it's one of the main benefits of having a hierarchical church (aside from all that revelation and priesthood  ).

It's also why I feel that when push comes to shove we will be encouraged to bring our food storage under the direction of our local bishops and presidents who will coordinate it based on need and the Spirit. It will be a Zion-building moment, and while I think most will respond positively, there will be some chaft which will sift itself out through their own selfishness and ironic-disobedience to priesthood revelation and direction (they gathered in because of revelation, but will refuse to consecrate because of the same).

[Tacenda]

Ted mentions the Mormon church and that he devoted three pages in his book about the church's teachings on preparation in case of anything from job loss to disasters.  He mentions several things the church does that other Americans should learn from.  He mentions the church's fuel supply, and the storehouses. That other communities would do well to learn these things.  And he even mentions FHE, and how the weekly get togethers could cover being prepared.  

I probably should have listened to this interview all the way through before, but listening as I post.    

[Storm Rider]

When we had our house built we made sure it was wired for a generator with specific parts of the home that would be powered.  We made this a priority on our next home also.  It just makes good sense to have enough fuel for running the generator and a home that is prepared in the event that power goes out for several days or even longer. 

I appreciate the steady reminders and instruction of the Church in how to prepare for catastrophes.  Though I believe it is an inspired program, it also is just good common sense. 

The one area that we could do much better on is using our food supply as we go along so that there is a constant rotation of good and knowledge of how to use staples in ways that we like and appreciate.  As well as, in ways that we can do without power if necessary. 

[mfbukowski]

Solar panels, a good ham radio, wood for the fireplace and some wheat and water.  Pumps could be off line- generators run out of gas.  A crossbow might be useful.

It won't be fun but it could get you through just fine.

[Bernard Gui]

Chocolate. 

 

[Sanpitch]

However, Tacenda, a wise person somewhere said, "I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened."  It's been the same in my life, most worries never happen.

The older people remember worries of a nuclear attack from Russia and building bomb shelters to survive in.  Before that was the Second World War and before that was etc.  I  have an older brother who has thought disaster was eminent for most of his life, he's now in his eighties.  It's proper to has some thought to emergency supplies and then start to worry about getting  in a car wreck or something else that's more likely to happen.

Worries are usually more prominent in the night time, when the sun comes up they usually dissipate.

Edited January 18, 2016 by Sanpitch
addition

[Meadowchik]

We have a well, a fireplace, and are pretty much surrounded by cornfields.  I feel safer here in a less urban area than I would in a city, in the event of a cyber-attack on the grid.  It's really impressive to think of how much we depend upon oil and electricity for our daily survival, though.

When we lived on the Swiss side of the border, the apartment building where we lived was equipped with a nuclear fallout shelter in the basement.  In fact, for a long time it was required for all new construction.  Schools, newer churches, etc..., they all have them, with those big thick doors with the wheel locks.

Somehow I feel a bit safer just living this close to Switzerland.

[Stargazer]

7 hours ago, halconero said:

There's a difference between being a prepper and being prepared, and it's mostly to do with mentality. I'm speaking from personal experience, but most self-described preppers I've met have this weird anticipation of disaster, as if they almost look forward to apocalyptic scenarios with a bit of relish. That or they have this obsessive fear regarding an imminent threat that always seems one week away.

I can explain that a little.

When I was in the US Army and in the Infantry, I was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, which was based at Ft. Lewis in Washington state.  Being on the west coast, our division's primary concern for warfighting was Korea.  Because tensions were never high in Korea while I was with the 9th, we were relatively calm about it all, but the division always had a "ready battalion" that was supposed to be prepped and ready to roll to the air base next door for deployment within 24 hours of notification.  This status rotated among the 8 line infantry battalions (we had one tank battalion) throughout the year, and each battalion was in this status for one month at a time.  During the month in question the battalion was expected to have inspected every man's personal equipment and weapons for completeness and condition, and at least one platoon had its equipment loaded aboard a truck to be ready to be moved to the air base for immediate transportation to Korea along with the division's forward headquarters element.  Just in case the balloon went up.

But we all existed in a state where we anticipated the possibility of going from rounds of endless training to a state of anticipating imminent combat operations.  Some of us took it more seriously than others, but in everyone's mind was the idea that we could soon be placed in a situation where our lives were on the line.  And some of us relished the prospect, or at least talked like we did.  In my case the call never came, but I will admit to a certain degree of looking forward to it.  We trained and trained to use our weapons, our brains and our bodies to accomplish difficult and dangerous tasks, but we never got a chance to actually do it.  This causes odd reactions in people.

I think that this explains the prepper mentality a bit.

I know one prepper who treats preparation in the same way we did in the 9th Infantry Division.  He is dead serious.  For example, he has anticipated that it might be necessary to exfiltrate from the area in the event of our dear volcano, Mt. Rainier, going active.  He has hidden caches of supplies along the likely exfiltration routes!  

But even I keep a 72 hour kit for each member of the household, and I don't qualify as a prepper.  The Church has asked us to do so, and so we do.  Preparation is good; to take it very seriously is good, too.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Meadowchik said:

We have a well, a fireplace, and are pretty much surrounded by cornfields.  I feel safer here in a less urban area than I would in a city, in the event of a cyber-attack on the grid.  It's really impressive to think of how much we depend upon oil and electricity for our daily survival, though.

When we lived on the Swiss side of the border, the apartment building where we lived was equipped with a nuclear fallout shelter in the basement.  In fact, for a long time it was required for all new construction.  Schools, newer churches, etc..., they all have them, with those big thick doors with the wheel locks.

Somehow I feel a bit safer just living this close to Switzerland.

Well, of course you know that Switzerland is the Prepper among nations!  Emergency hospitals, military command centers, and underground aircraft hangars dug out of the mountains, every man who is part of the militia expected to maintain military weapons and equipment at home, and when it comes down to it, Switzerland doesn't have an Army, Switzerland IS an Army.

I visited there once -- lovely country.

[Tacenda]

Thanks for the replies so far, it sure helps.  

Has anyone heard of your vehicle being susceptible to a cyber attack?  Would it cause the computer in your car to quit running?  The computer holds so much power, our bank accounts, important documents etc.  Kind of want to go back to the old way of life.  

It would do us good to have more power outages to realize what is needed at hand.  

Edited January 18, 2016 by Tacenda

[longview]

9 hours ago, VideoGameJunkie said:

I'm screwed and unprepared which is why I hope the disasters preceding the 2nd Coming are after my lifetime.

Consider getting a Sun Oven.  It would be a nice hobby baking your own loafs of bread without the toxic smoke of a fire.

[thesometimesaint]

Depends on the age of your car. The old "points and condenser" type of distributor are relatively immune. But nothing is absolutely immune.

While modern 21 Century American life can be a hassle sometimes I have absolutely no desire to return to a "simpler" time.

[rockpond]

10 hours ago, Tacenda said:

http://radiowest.kuer.org/post/if-lights-went-out-america-0  Maybe the preppers are not so crazy.  In this interview with Ted Koppel, he mentions there being an 80 to 90 percent chance of a cyber attack on the power grid system that could affect millions.  

This is scary, I really need to get my act together.  In the interview it was mentioned the power could be off for up to two years.  This thought has never occurred to me.  

Ever since the deal with China and people from there cyber attacking US companies and stealing from them, it makes you wonder.  Saw this info on 60 minutes I believe.  

I really don't know what to think.  Just thought I'd post this, in case any of you out there are like me and haven't prepared like they should.  

Not to depress everyone, hopefully one of you can show that it can't happen and make my day!

I have that RadioWest episode on my list to listen to.

If you really want to be scared read the book One Second After by William Forstchen.  It prompted me to take my food storage to a new level.

[Stargazer]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks for the replies so far, it sure helps.  

Has anyone heard of your vehicle being susceptible to a cyber attack?  Would it cause the computer in your car to quit running?  The computer holds so much power, our bank accounts, important documents etc.  Kind of want to go back to the old way of life.  

It would do us good to have more power outages to realize what is needed at hand.  

I don't mean to scare you beyond your present concern, but it wouldn't take a cyber attack to drag us down to that point.

The cyber attack that they talk about is when a national (or even non-national) actor takes down our central computer systems through hacking, but there is another way, and that involves Electromagnetic Pulse or EMP.  EMP can induce large currents within electronic equipment, and our current micro-miniaturized devices can be fried if subjected to such a pulse.  Sources of EMP are both natural and manmade.  

Manmade sources include both nuclear and non-nuclear weapons.  Nuclear weapons always emit massive electromagnetic pulses when detonated, and have huge ranges, and can affect electronics well beyond the damage footprint of the blast itself.  An nuclear airburst set off 100 miles off the east coast wouldn't cause much if any ground damage, but would disable electronic equipment over hundreds and thousands of square miles.  Non-nuclear EMP weapons have much smaller damage footprints.  

Natural sources include first of all lightning.  That's one of the reasons why you have surge protectors in your home, to protect your computers and other household equipment.  But the scariest form of natural EMP comes from the Sun.  Our sun can be very active, and we are sometimes hit by Coronal Mass Ejections or CMEs.  Very occasionally in the past CMEs have been recorded which if they occurred now could cause widespread destruction of electronic equipment.  The Carrington Event in 1859 was one such.  A more recent similar event of lesser magniture was the March 1989 Geomagnetic Storm, which took out the Quebec power network for several hours.  Even more recently, in 2012, there was a Carrington-class CME that missed the earth by 9 days.  That would have been fun!

This is another reason why it is good to be prepared.  

Info on EMP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_pulse

Edited January 18, 2016 by Stargazer

[Tacenda]

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=if+the+lights+went+out+in+georgia&view=detail&mid=2DEFFBF49D8B2A924FB02DEFFBF49D8B2A924FB0&FORM=VIRE13

I keep thinking of this song when I see the OP title.  

[halconero]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

I can explain that a little.

When I was in the US Army and in the Infantry, I was assigned to the 9th Infantry Division, which was based at Ft. Lewis in Washington state.  Being on the west coast, our division's primary concern for warfighting was Korea.  Because tensions were never high in Korea while I was with the 9th, we were relatively calm about it all, but the division always had a "ready battalion" that was supposed to be prepped and ready to roll to the air base next door for deployment within 24 hours of notification.  This status rotated among the 8 line infantry battalions (we had one tank battalion) throughout the year, and each battalion was in this status for one month at a time.  During the month in question the battalion was expected to have inspected every man's personal equipment and weapons for completeness and condition, and at least one platoon had its equipment loaded aboard a truck to be ready to be moved to the air base for immediate transportation to Korea along with the division's forward headquarters element.  Just in case the balloon went up.

But we all existed in a state where we anticipated the possibility of going from rounds of endless training to a state of anticipating imminent combat operations.  Some of us took it more seriously than others, but in everyone's mind was the idea that we could soon be placed in a situation where our lives were on the line.  And some of us relished the prospect, or at least talked like we did.  In my case the call never came, but I will admit to a certain degree of looking forward to it.  We trained and trained to use our weapons, our brains and our bodies to accomplish difficult and dangerous tasks, but we never got a chance to actually do it.  This causes odd reactions in people.

I think that this explains the prepper mentality a bit.

I know one prepper who treats preparation in the same way we did in the 9th Infantry Division.  He is dead serious.  For example, he has anticipated that it might be necessary to exfiltrate from the area in the event of our dear volcano, Mt. Rainier, going active.  He has hidden caches of supplies along the likely exfiltration routes!  

But even I keep a 72 hour kit for each member of the household, and I don't qualify as a prepper.  The Church has asked us to do so, and so we do.  Preparation is good; to take it very seriously is good, too.

Thanks Stargazer,

My dad was in the Canadian Military for a long time, and when he went from regulars the reserve force (with the intention of eventually quitting to focus on education, which he did) he actually trained a lot with the Americans at Ft. Lewis (were from right over the border in BC). Depending on when you served and if you interacted with the Canadians that much you might have done some exercises with him at some point.

I can understand the mentality as well, and in the short-term it can be a good thing. My dad experienced with the Soviets invaded Afghanistan and the rhetoric between the US and the USSR was at its height. They were told be on constant alert to deploy. An imminent danger feeling or vibe is probably a physiologically and mentally good thing for short periods of time, such as the rotation you were in.

I think we'd agree that keeping that mentality long term probably isn't the most healthy thing in the world, even though preparedness is a definite virtue.