Random Thought on the Flood

[BookofMormonLuvr]

Is it possible that some others may have made it though?

Sure, no one else built a massive ark, stocked with supplies, but conceivably there could've been people with boats, perhaps even fishermen- that if, they gathered enough gear. maybe could've fished their way through the year.

<shrug>

Edited December 29, 2015 by BookofMormonLuvr

[The Nehor]

If the flood was as described I doubt it. Your average ancient boat would have a hard time with 40 days on continuous heavy rain. Most boats would swamp.

Then again I do not believe in the global flood so fisherman elsewhere probably rode it out just fine.

[Sanpitch]

Genesis 7:21   "So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished -- the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind .  22  Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in it's nostrils died.  23  So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth"...and etc.

If you believe the bible apparently everything other than those in the ark died.  As for me and my house we don't believe in a flood because of the impossibility of it.

[Avatar4321]

I tend to think there were others

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

Is it possible that some others may have made it though?

Sure, no one else built a massive ark, stocked with supplies, but conceivably there could've been people with boats, perhaps even fishermen- that if, they gathered enough gear. maybe could've fished their way through the year.

<shrug>

The OT account says that only those on the boat survived. If you believe the account to be literal in that the flood covered the whole earth, why would you doubt the claimed survival total? And if you believe that the account was only a local event (as I do) then obviously most people survived because they were unaffected.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Sanpitch said:

Genesis 7:21   "So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished -- the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind .  22  Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in it's nostrils died.  23  So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth"...and etc.

If you believe the bible apparently everything other than those in the ark died.  As for me and my house we don't believe in a flood because of the impossibility of it.

I don't believe it was impossible. God can do what he likes. He even has the power to fix it so it looks like a global flood never happened. I am just left wondering why he would bother.

I really wish the Book of Moses had gone a little longer. Might have got some more details on the flood.

[cinepro]

4 hours ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

Is it possible that some others may have made it though?

Sure, no one else built a massive ark, stocked with supplies, but conceivably there could've been people with boats, perhaps even fishermen- that if, they gathered enough gear. maybe could've fished their way through the year.

<shrug>

If you believe the flood as taught in the Bible and by LDS leaders and publications, then no, no one else on the planet other than the eight on the ark survived.

If you don't believe the flood as taught in the Bible and by LDS leaders and publications, then yes, other people survived.  Geology, biology, physics, anthropology and archaeology would all seem to indicate that the flood was not as described in the Bible and other people did survive.  So most people have to eventually make a choice.

[Sanpitch]

Maybe, just maybe God lied about it or the writers of the Bible lied about it.  Either there was a Earth Wide Flood covering everything or somebody lied.

[The Nehor]

I do admit I use the flood story to confuse people who try to argue Cain is still alive in a physical body and ask if he survived in a flotation device tied to the ark.

[TheSkepticChristian]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I do admit I use the flood story to confuse people who try to argue Cain is still alive in a physical body and ask if he survived in a flotation device tied to the ark.

I remember my seminary teacher said Satan protected him.

 

[VideoGameJunkie]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I do admit I use the flood story to confuse people who try to argue Cain is still alive in a physical body and ask if he survived in a flotation device tied to the ark.

Do you mean Tubal-Cain because he was in the ark in that stupid Russell Crowe movie Noah.

[carbon dioxide]

4 hours ago, cinepro said:

If you believe the flood as taught in the Bible and by LDS leaders and publications, then no, no one else on the planet other than the eight on the ark survived.

If you don't believe the flood as taught in the Bible and by LDS leaders and publications, then yes, other people survived.  Geology, biology, physics, anthropology and archaeology would all seem to indicate that the flood was not as described in the Bible and other people did survive.  So most people have to eventually make a choice.

Or we have an example of some reading something into the flood story that is was not there.  There was a time when LDS leaders thought that that the BOM setting was all the Western Hemisphere but not so much anymore as people have reconsidered things.  I believe the account in the Bible and I don't think that account requires all animals on the earth to travel thousands of miles to Noah or traveling thousands of miles after the flood to make it back to their native habitat.  Also the population rebound from 8 people would simply take much longer than how the Bible describes it if only 8 people were left on the whole earth. 

[rodheadlee]

4 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

Maybe, just maybe God lied about it or the writers of the Bible lied about it.  Either there was a Earth Wide Flood covering everything or somebody lied.

Numbers 23:

19 God is not a man, that he should ^alie; neither the son of man, that he should ^brepent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he ^cspoken, and shall henot make it good?

[Sanpitch]

12 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

Numbers 23:

19 God is not a man, that he should ^alie; neither the son of man, that he should ^brepent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he ^cspoken, and shall henot make it good?

Are you saying that there was a world wide flood that covered all the mountains?

[rodheadlee]

1 minute ago, Sanpitch said:

Are you saying that there was a world wide flood that covered all the mountains?

No, I'm saying God is not doing any lying. 

[strappinglad]

As a Flood myth is found in most societies all around the world, it is likely the flood , or more correctly A flood impacted people from lots of civilized groups. I speculate that there may have been many ' Noahs ' , each acting under commandment. We should remember that without rapid death and burial in sediment laden water, most fossils would not exist. Of course , that would mean that such flood myths are from the collective unconscious rattling around in man's primitive reptilian brain.

[Gray]

12 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

No, I'm saying God is not doing any lying. 

Agreed, but God doesn't write scriptures either.

[JLHPROF]

I believe in a global flood.  I believe that only those on the ark made it through.  I believe God's scriptures (whether his words or the words of his prophets).

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, TheSkepticChristian said:

I remember my seminary teacher said Satan protected him.

You had a seminary teacher that believed that Satan has the power to thwart God? Interesting moral in that story. If you want to survive the wrath of God go with a pact with Satan. It is the best insurance policy out there and possibly cheaper then tithing.

[thesometimesaint]

The Bible has flat earth at the center of the universe. It isn't good idea to use Stone and Bronze Age myths as science.

[cinepro]

On 12/30/2015 at 6:57 PM, carbon dioxide said:

Or we have an example of some reading something into the flood story that is was not there.  There was a time when LDS leaders thought that that the BOM setting was all the Western Hemisphere but not so much anymore as people have reconsidered things.  I believe the account in the Bible and I don't think that account requires all animals on the earth to travel thousands of miles to Noah or traveling thousands of miles after the flood to make it back to their native habitat.  Also the population rebound from 8 people would simply take much longer than how the Bible describes it if only 8 people were left on the whole earth. 

Just so we're all clear, this was published in the Ensign in 1998 by one of the Church's most knowledgeable Old Testament scholars:

Not everyone throughout the modern world, however, accepts the story of Noah and the Flood. Many totally disbelieve the story, seeing it as a simple myth or fiction. Typical of some modern scholars, one author recently discounted the events of the Flood by using such terms as “implausible,” “unacceptable,” and “impossible”; he stated that believers who would hope to provide geologic or other evidence regarding the historicity of the Flood “can be given no assurance that their effort, however sustained, will be successful.”¹ Another author titled his book The Noah’s Ark Nonsense,² revealing his disbelief that the Flood actually took place.

Still other people accept parts of the Flood story, acknowledging that there may have been a local, charismatic preacher, such as Noah, and a localized flood that covered only a specific area of the world, such as the region of the Tigris and Euphrates Rivers or perhaps even the whole of Mesopotamia. Yet these people do not believe in a worldwide or global flood. Both of these groups—those who totally deny the historicity of Noah and the Flood and those who accept parts of the story—are persuaded in their disbelief by the way they interpret modern science. They rely upon geological considerations and theories that postulate it would be impossible for a flood to cover earth’s highest mountains, that the geologic evidence (primarily in the fields of stratigraphy and sedimentation) does not indicate a worldwide flood occurred any time during the earth’s existence.

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng

 

And for a summary of what Church leaders and publications have taught on the subject, I have a collection here:

http://blog.mediumcouncil.org/?p=185

 

 

[Ahab]

On 12/29/2015 at 10:27 AM, Sanpitch said:

Genesis 7:21   "So all living creatures that were moving on the earth perished -- the flying creatures, the domestic animals, the wild animals, the swarming creatures, and all mankind .  22  Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in it's nostrils died.  23  So He wiped every living thing from the surface of the earth"...and etc.

Understanding how scripture is written would help to clear this up.  Was that a testimony of some man who was there who described what he saw where he was, OR did God dictate exactly what he was to say word for word?

The words themselves are a little ambiguous to me. Of course every living that was moving on the earth (little e, not big E denoting a planet named Earth) died when the earth (how much of it?) was flooded with water but what words can we point to from some other person (s) on the Earth then to corroborate the idea that ALL of the earth on the planet Earth was covered with water or that some more people couldn't somehow survive in some other boat (s) on some water?

[Sanpitch]

48 minutes ago, Ahab said:

Understanding how scripture is written would help to clear this up.  Was that a testimony of some man who was there who described what he saw where he was, OR did God dictate exactly what he was to say word for word?

The words themselves are a little ambiguous to me. Of course every living that was moving on the earth (little e, not big E denoting a planet named Earth) died when the earth (how much of it?) was flooded with water but what words can we point to from some other person (s) on the Earth then to corroborate the idea that ALL of the earth on the planet Earth was covered with water or that some more people couldn't somehow survive in some other boat (s) on some water?

A little point I like to bring out in discussion of the World Wide Flood is the fact that Genesis says the flood rose above the mountains 15 cubits.  Is the Bible inspired of God or not.  If not how did some bible recorders know that the mountains were cover by 15 cubits of water.  I've boated enough to know you don't normally know what is below you and especially when you don't where you are.  The only explanation is that it was inspired of God.  So if inspired then everything was snuffed out as God inspired the writers to record. 

Edited January 1, 2016 by Sanpitch

[Avatar4321]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2015 at 4:12 PM, Sanpitch said:

Maybe, just maybe God lied about it or the writers of the Bible lied about it.  Either there was a Earth Wide Flood covering everything or somebody lied.

they don't have to be lying if they simply didn't know

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, cinepro said:

Just so we're all clear, this was published in the Ensign in 1998 by one of the Church's most knowledgeable Old Testament scholars:

 

 

 

And for a summary of what Church leaders and publications have taught on the subject, I have a collection here:

http://blog.mediumcouncil.org/?p=185

 

 

It's about time I became an apostate.