Random Thought on the Flood

[rodheadlee]

On 1/1/2016 at 6:21 PM, Sanpitch said:

But Strappinglad, the big cruiser floated all over the place, how did they know when they were over the top of the mountains.  There were no sign posts indicating where the mountains were.

They are called soundings. You should take a sounding every time you make a log entry. How do you think nav charts were made before electronics? Some of the charts we used sailing from Annapolis to California were made in the 1700's. No they are not the originals but the info is from the original surveys. Kinda like the BOA. We make a log entry every hour when near land, every 4 hours when well offshore, say 100 miles or more. When you've been at sea for more than a week or so you can smell land before you ever see it, if it's low lying land. Mountains are visible long before you smell them or see the actual mountain  because they are usually surrounded by clouds. I'm certain some prayer was involved.

[rodheadlee]

On 1/1/2016 at 8:32 AM, mnn727 said:

hint, there aren't really people who look like Quakers living on the Moon and the Sun is not really inhabited, 

 

How do you know?  Don't you watch Youtube? Why are we bombing the moon?

UFO sightings near the sun

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yb16cPZN5s

Edited January 5, 2016 by rodheadlee

[rodheadlee]

20 hours ago, mnn727 said:

I find it amazing the number of hoops Christians have to try to twist through to make the O.T. fit into the real world.

Its time to say it (the O.T.) was a primitive people trying to make sense of their world and move on without giving it the authority of being called scripture.

So we are going to throw out all of the promises God made to Abraham? to Jacob? 

[Zakuska]

15 hours ago, canard78 said:

I went to Borneo a few years ago. It's teaming with species that are unique to Borneo. Lots of other islands around the world have a similar situation. 

What explanation can you offer for their existence. There is no physical way that the Ark could have housed two (or seven) of all species. So what happened to all the animals? And what about all the freshwater fish (or saltwater fish, depending on what salt balance the global flood had)?

 

Only in the "Bath tub model" is the salinity of water an issue.

When one follows a "Tsunami" model or ice being water and covering the whole earth all of these problems disappear.  Lets face it.  Did penguins really need an ark to survive a flood?  Or How about Polar bears or seals or Walruses. Otters?  all of these animals could have survived a Global flood without Noahs help.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Zakuska

[Zakuska]

Was the Ark really round?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2545494/Was-Noahs-Ark-ROUND-3-700-year-old-clay-tablet-reveals-boat-coracle-reeds-bitumen.html

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/secrets-noahs-ark.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/25/noahs-ark-round-_n_4664876.html

This type of Ancient Sumerian\Iraqii reed boat reminds me of the brother of Jared.

Ether 2

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly tight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto dish

 

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Zakuska

[Sanpitch]

11 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

They are called soundings. You should take a sounding every time you make a log entry. How do you think nav charts were made before electronics? Some of the charts we used sailing from Annapolis to California were made in the 1700's. No they are not the originals but the info is from the original surveys. Kinda like the BOA. We make a log entry every hour when near land, every 4 hours when well offshore, say 100 miles or more. When you've been at sea for more than a week or so you can smell land before you ever see it, if it's low lying land. Mountains are visible long before you smell them or see the actual mountain  because they are usually surrounded by clouds. I'm certain some prayer was involved.

But, rodheadlee, you know what the ocean looks like when you're hundreds of miles from land, nothing but water and you're just floating around at the big boat's will.  You're floating here and there, you can't take soundings all over the place and you don't know what is on the other side of the world.  There might be an Everest sticking up thousands of feet in the air.  It would probably be fun for you though.

[Sanpitch]

A thought I have had is the ice on Greenland, they've bored down hundreds of feet and taken samples through many layers of ice.  It indicates that the ice has been there long before a supposed flood.  If there was a flood the ice would have floated away, it is not glued to the earth.  How is that explained away.  Someone would have to read the details of the studies to know much about them.

[mnn727]

10 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

So we are going to throw out all of the promises God made to Abraham? to Jacob? 

What of those that actually apply to us are not also found int he D&C?

[Zakuska]

 

6 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

A thought I have had is the ice on Greenland, they've bored down hundreds of feet and taken samples through many layers of ice.  It indicates that the ice has been there long before a supposed flood.  If there was a flood the ice would have floated away, it is not glued to the earth.  How is that explained away.  Someone would have to read the details of the studies to know much about them.

You have heard of Ice that sinks in water?

http://mathscinotes.com/2014/02/heavy-water-ice-cubes-do-not-float/

[Sanpitch]

5 minutes ago, Zakuska said:

 

You have heard of Ice that sinks in water?

http://mathscinotes.com/2014/02/heavy-water-ice-cubes-do-not-float/

No I don't remember reading of heavy water, however, at $3 per gram to make, who's going to provide the money? 

"Creating heavy water ice cubes and seeing them sink in ordinary water is interesting. It is also expensive since relatively pure heavy water costs about $3 per gram."

[thesometimesaint]

6 hours ago, Zakuska said:

Only in the "Bath tub model" is the salinity of water an issue.

When one follows a "Tsunami" model or ice being water and covering the whole earth all of these problems disappear.  Lets face it.  Did penguins really need an ark to survive a flood?  Or How about Polar bears or seals or Walruses. Otters?  all of these animals could have survived a Global flood without Noahs help.

 

Yes they do.

[The Nehor]

And how did the fresh water fish survive?

[sunstoned]

On 12/29/2015 at 3:12 PM, Sanpitch said:

Maybe, just maybe God lied about it or the writers of the Bible lied about it.  Either there was a Earth Wide Flood covering everything or somebody lied.

Yup, somebody lied. 

[thesometimesaint]

9 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Yup, somebody lied. 

I don't believe it necessary to assign guilt of lying. I believe Noah was a prophet of God you accurately record what he actually saw, a massive albeit regional flood.

[Sanpitch]

2 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

I don't believe it necessary to assign guilt of lying. I believe Noah was a prophet of God you accurately record what he actually saw, a massive albeit regional flood.

The Bible and the LDS Claims that the Flood covered the Earth entirely.  The Bible claims 15 cubits  above the mountains.  So is the Bible not inspired?

[thesometimesaint]

27 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

The Bible and the LDS Claims that the Flood covered the Earth entirely.  The Bible claims 15 cubits  above the mountains.  So is the Bible not inspired?

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

[Gray]

2 hours ago, thesometimesaint said:

I don't believe it necessary to assign guilt of lying. I believe Noah was a prophet of God you accurately record what he actually saw, a massive albeit regional flood.

Noah is not a Biblical writer. 

[Sanpitch]

1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said:

We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly.

As Cinepro pointed out earlier in this thread:  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng

According to the web site it was a world wide flood that destroyed all living creatures.

[Sevenbak]

9 hours ago, Sanpitch said:

As Cinepro pointed out earlier in this thread:  https://www.lds.org/ensign/1998/01/the-flood-and-the-tower-of-babel?lang=eng

According to the web site it was a world wide flood that destroyed all living creatures.

Great link, thanks.  It doesn't get much clearer that that does it.

 

After talking about 2 basic schools of thought or groups who disbelieve the flood, many of which have been advanced here, then has this to say about what Latter Day saints actually believe.   

 

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

[Sevenbak]

22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

And how did the fresh water fish survive?

I'm not sure they all did.  And I'm not sure Noah didn't provide for some to be spared either.   One thing that I've always wondered about was the Brother of Jared preparing vessels for the fish of the waters, as per Ether 2:2.  Why would he do that if not to repopulate fish elsewhere?

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, Sevenbak said:

I'm not sure they all did.  And I'm not sure Noah didn't provide for some to be spared either.   One thing that I've always wondered about was the Brother of Jared preparing vessels for the fish of the waters, as per Ether 2:2.  Why would he do that if not to repopulate fish elsewhere?

Noah could not fit a freshwater tank big enough even if it took up over half of the ark....let alone replenish it with fresh water. He would also have to take all the freshwater plants that cannot survive in sea water. Not feasible short of a lot of miracles.

[thesometimesaint]

11 hours ago, Gray said:

Noah is not a Biblical writer. 

Never said he was. The first 5 books of the Bible are attributed to Moses. But there-in lies the problem there is no evidence beyond the Bible that Moses ever existed. Someone told the stories that got passed down. Whether those stories are technically accurate is another question.

[sunstoned]

1 hour ago, Sevenbak said:

Great link, thanks.  It doesn't get much clearer that that does it.

 

After talking about 2 basic schools of thought or groups who disbelieve the flood, many of which have been advanced here, then has this to say about what Latter Day saints actually believe.   

 

There is a third group of people—those who accept the literal message of the Bible regarding Noah, the ark, and the Deluge. Latter-day Saints belong to this group. In spite of the world’s arguments against the historicity of the Flood, and despite the supposed lack of geologic evidence, we Latter-day Saints believe that Noah was an actual man, a prophet of God, who preached repentance and raised a voice of warning, built an ark, gathered his family and a host of animals onto the ark, and floated safely away as waters covered the entire earth. We are assured that these events actually occurred by the multiple testimonies of God’s prophets.

The Epic of Gilgamesh has a universal flood story with significant parallels to the Flood 
of Noah's day. The Gilgamesh account predates the Genesis account by over a thousand years. 
Perhaps the Hebrew scribes borrowed from  this account. One thing is certain, both accounts are allegorical because scholarly consensus and evidence from scientific investigation have shown that the story cannot be literally true. The evidence against a global deluge is overwhelming.

The church is just painting itself into a corner with these types of statements.

[thesometimesaint]

15 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

The Epic of Gilgamesh has a universal flood story with significant parallels to the Flood 
of Noah's day. The Gilgamesh account predates the Genesis account by over a thousand years. 
Perhaps the Hebrew scribes borrowed from  this account. One thing is certain, both accounts are allegorical because scholarly consensus and evidence from scientific investigation have shown that the story cannot be literally true. The evidence against a global deluge is overwhelming.

The church is just painting itself into a corner with these types of statements.

To be fair.

SEE http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_science/Global_or_local_Flood

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

The Epic of Gilgamesh has a universal flood story with significant parallels to the Flood 
of Noah's day. The Gilgamesh account predates the Genesis account by over a thousand years. 
Perhaps the Hebrew scribes borrowed from  this account. One thing is certain, both accounts are allegorical because scholarly consensus and evidence from scientific investigation have shown that the story cannot be literally true. The evidence against a global deluge is overwhelming.

The church is just painting itself into a corner with these types of statements.

It Could be literally true but it would require a lot of miracles to cover it up and fix everything and I have a hard time seeing God doing that but I do not know the mind of God so it is possible.

Allegorical of what?