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The Ministry of Christ Was Heralded by the Angel Gabriel/ Noah, Was This a Repeat of His Ministry to a New World.


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Yes he did visit the Muslims, and they destroyed the unfaithful Roman Population who rejected the ministry of Christ, in the same timeframe as the flood did to the unrepentant, in Adam’s World.  
 

Edited by Jracforr
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1 hour ago, Ahab said:

The idea that Gabriel appeared to Muhammad doesn't sit well with me because angels and prophets are messengers of Jesus Christ who proclaim Jesus Christ and his gospel to encourage others to believe in him, Jesus.

So if Gabriel actually appeared to Muhammad then why didn't Muhammad proclaim Jesus Christ and his gospel?  And why don't Muslims in general proclaim Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior?

The fruit of the Muslim religion is not Christianity, so why not?  Which of their people messed up?

The Angels are God messengers who are tasked to execute his will on earth, that task maybe constructive such as stirring people to repentance or destructive such as putting them to death if need be. Gabriel’s mission executed through Christ, is an example of the former and his mission executed by Mohammed is an example of the latter. It doesn’t matter if it sit well with either you or me, it is the will of God, and there are examples of these seeming contradiction throughout the Scriptures.

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2 hours ago, Ahab said:

The idea that Gabriel appeared to Muhammad doesn't sit well with me because angels and prophets are messengers of Jesus Christ who proclaim Jesus Christ and his gospel to encourage others to believe in him, Jesus.

So if Gabriel actually appeared to Muhammad then why didn't Muhammad proclaim Jesus Christ and his gospel?  And why don't Muslims in general proclaim Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior?

The fruit of the Muslim religion is not Christianity, so why not?  Which of their people messed up?

Hello Ahab, my thinking on this topic is that we have been taught that our Father in Heaven gives the degree of truth, to the degree that it can be accepted, to all people on the face of the earth. Some are not given a message of Jesus Christ, but still have differing degrees of truth. Buddhists have some truth - you name the religion and you will find truth there. 

Did Gabriel appear to Muhammad? In my opinion, yes - and I don't have any degree of testimony of this, I am just taking him at his word. When you read the Qur'an you see an incredible degree of adoration of God. You find that Jesus is the Son of God, but this is not interpreted as we believe. 

I am convinced that God's will and desires will be accomplished. Will Islam fight against the Body of Christ in the last days? Maybe. 

At some point, each and every person will know that Jesus is the Christ and kneel before him. They may still reject him, but they will know him as a member of the Godhead and Savior for each of them. 

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2 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Is the Gabriel = Noah thing unique to Mormonism?

Yes it is unique to Mormonism, it was revealed to the LDS that Noah was exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel. The general belief of the Mormons is that an individual who lives up to his highest potential on Earth, is capable of being exhaled to become as God is.

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18 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Did Gabriel appear to Muhammad? In my opinion, yes - and I don't have any degree of testimony of this, I am just taking him at his word. When you read the Qur'an you see an incredible degree of adoration of God. You find that Jesus is the Son of God, but this is not interpreted as we believe.

According to the Qur'an, Jesus did not die on the cross nor rise from the dead. Muslims interpret
the phrase 'Son of God' as Heavenly Father and Jesus uniting in a physical way to beget a child.

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1 hour ago, theplains said:

According to the Qur'an, Jesus did not die on the cross nor rise from the dead. Muslims interpret
the phrase 'Son of God' as Heavenly Father and Jesus uniting in a physical way to beget a child.

You are correct. That is why I said we interpret the term Son of God differently than Islam.  

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6 hours ago, Islamormoyid said:

I've learned over the years not to jump to any hasty conclusions about what all Muslims have believed at all times.  Especially once you reach the Sunni-Shi'ite divide.  It's hard to know where to begin in examining the errors about Islam that have presented themselves in this thread.  Suffice it to say that the Christological distance between Christianity and Islam isn't as wide as many assume, and this includes the concept of theosis.  Muhammad himself felt that the faith closest to Islam was that of the Ethiopian Church.  Fascinating, that.  

Not many here know much  about Islam. If you do, why not correct the errors? That’s why we are here...to learn. What are your qualifications?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

Not many here know much  about Islam. If you do, why not correct the errors? That’s why we are here...to learn. What are your qualifications?

Islam has a very bad reputation among Christians because it destroyed a corrupt Roman Christian Province, the reprobate nature of the Civilization destroyed is not taken into consideration as the reason for it’s destruction, but rather the perceived evil of the destroyer, informs Christians opinion of Islam. The underlying message to cease to do evil or accept the consequences, is lost in the prevailing Christian Islamic divide, as happened between Israelis and Chaldeans and Nephites and Lamanites. The destroyer is the evil one not the destroyed corrupt ones. 

Edited by Jracforr
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On 9/26/2020 at 6:33 AM, Jracforr said:

Yes it is unique to Mormonism, it was revealed to the LDS that Noah was exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel. The general belief of the Mormons is that an individual who lives up to his highest potential on Earth, is capable of being exhaled to become as God is.

You are LDS? Your words are not those we usually use. 

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1 hour ago, Jracforr said:

Can you clarify, I am not sure I understand your comment.

I have never heard a member use words like this...

it was revealed to the LDS that Noah was exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel.

I don’t know how someone is exhaled to become an angel. Gabriel/Noah lived from the pre-mortal existence 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have never heard a member use words like this...

it was revealed to the LDS that Noah was exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel.

I don’t know how someone is exhaled to become an angel. Gabriel/Noah lived from the pre-mortal existence 

If you are a member of the LDS Church you should know of this doctrine, it is not based on my speculation . If the word mistaken  for “Exalted “ created a problem we should have no further issue , consult your Bishop for a explanation of the doctrine, and it’s application to Noah’s transition to the Angel Gabriel.

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9 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

If you are a member of the LDS Church you should know of this doctrine, it is not based on my speculation . If the word mistaken  for “Exalted “ created a problem we should have no further issue , consult your Bishop for a explanation of the doctrine, and it’s application to Noah’s transition to the Angel Gabriel.

"Living up to their highest potential" is the problematic comment for me.  It turns our belief solely into a "works" doctrine and ignores the core principle of the Atonement in our beliefs.  People who have lived pretty crappy lives can be exalted if sincerely repenting and embracing the Gospel at sometime before judgment (meaning their repentance may take place after death even).

Noah/Gabriel would not have been resurrected yet at the time of his visit to Mary, so exaltation wasn't applicable at that point or any previous appearances by him.

Edited by Calm
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3 hours ago, Calm said:

"Living up to their highest potential" is the problematic comment for me.  It turns our belief solely into a "works" doctrine and ignores the core principle of the Atonement in our beliefs.  People who have lived pretty crappy lives can be exalted if sincerely repenting and embracing the Gospel at sometime before judgment (meaning their repentance may take place after death even).

Noah/Gabriel would not have been resurrected yet at the time of his visit to Mary, so exaltation wasn't applicable at that point or any previous appearances by him.

Living up to our highest potential is the requirement despite the Atonement, FAITH in Christ only allow the penitent a second opportunity to get it right, but the WORK must be put in, to earn the reward, hence “ Faith without works is Dead “.  It is the equivalent of allowing every one the opportunity to qualify for the Olympics, without any predetermined condition, but success in any chosen event is determined by the work put in by the interested party. Many people assume the Atonement takes away your sin, it does not, it only allows you to “Try Again” .

Noah earned his exaltation in his world , his status was that of a Messiah in the Adamic World, he needed no one to Atone for his sins . The Book of Enoch recorded that the Messiah to that world, would come through his ancestors lineage and so it was. Christ Atonement must have been for those who never made the journey in the Ark, and died in their sin.

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13 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I have never heard a member use words like this...

it was revealed to the LDS that Noah was exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel.

I don’t know how someone is exhaled to become an angel. Gabriel/Noah lived from the pre-mortal existence 

That sounds like a veiled insult of a new members word choice to me; not really helpful to the discussion (imv). Let me try and clarify what I think he means by "exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel." it means the process of being foreordained or set-apart; so to put it in "member" terms: "it was revealed to [Joseph Smith Jr] that Noah was [foreordained/set-apart] to become the Angel Gabriel." 

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7 hours ago, Jracforr said:

Living up to our highest potential is the requirement despite the Atonement, FAITH in Christ only allow the penitent a second opportunity to get it right, but the WORK must be put in, to earn the reward, hence “ Faith without works is Dead “.  It is the equivalent of allowing every one the opportunity to qualify for the Olympics, without any predetermined condition, but success in any chosen event is determined by the work put in by the interested party. Many people assume the Atonement takes away your sin, it does not, it only allows you to “Try Again” .

Noah earned his exaltation in his world , his status was that of a Messiah in the Adamic World, he needed no one to Atone for his sins . The Book of Enoch recorded that the Messiah to that world, would come through his ancestors lineage and so it was. Christ Atonement must have been for those who never made the journey in the Ark, and died in their sin.

Very interesting points of view but I worry that you're reading too much Apocrypha; the apocryphal views seem to dominate your view point; the gist of your response is correct (I would say) but that entire doctrine is readily available in the lds scriptures and words of modern prophets. I believe that it is best (for me) to stick to the cookie cut doctrines and teachings as they are the most aligning with the Lord's will for this time.

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56 minutes ago, Maedros said:

That sounds like a veiled insult of a new members word choice to me; not really helpful to the discussion (imv). Let me try and clarify what I think he means by "exhaled to become the Angel Gabriel." it means the process of being foreordained or set-apart; so to put it in "member" terms: "it was revealed to [Joseph Smith Jr] that Noah was [foreordained/set-apart] to become the Angel Gabriel." 

You are looking for insults where none were intended. I prefer he clarify his own words and answer the questions himself. I hope you will agree that exhaled angels are not a common feature of LDS vocabulary.

See my response which follows.
 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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On 9/27/2020 at 1:17 PM, Jracforr said:

If you are a member of the LDS Church you should know of this doctrine, it is not based on my speculation . If the word mistaken  for “Exalted “ created a problem we should have no further issue , consult your Bishop for a explanation of the doctrine, and it’s application to Noah’s transition to the Angel Gabriel.

I am a member. For a very long time. Are you? I have never heard of someone being exhaled. Yes, it causes a problem because it is foreign to LDS doctrine. If you meant exalted, just make the correction without the condescension, please. 

Noah was and is known as Gabriel in heaven. He was one of the great ones in the Council in Heaven before we came to earth. He was foreordained to his calling there. He was ordained to the Priesthood at the age of ten and became the head of a covenant dispensation. He is second to Adam in the earthly Priesthood hierarchy. He conversed with Joseph Smith. He will be present when the Savior comes to partake of the sacrament with the believers.

Since exaltation requires a resurrected body, Noah/Gabriel could not have been an exhaled/exalted angel when he appeared to Daniel and Mary because the Atonement and resurrection of Jesus Christ had yet to be accomplished. He may be an exalted being today, but that has not been revealed, as far as I know.

Quote

Scriptural text says that Noah “found grace in the eyes of the Lord” because he was “a just man, and perfect in his generation,” one who “walked with God,” as did Enoch (Moses 8:27; see also Moses 7:69; Gen. 5:24). The quality of perfection in these contexts is similar to that achieved by Abraham and Job, meaning that Noah righteously did all he was supposed to do in mortality and was “made perfect through Jesus the Mediator” and through the Atonement, not that Noah was exalted (see Gen. 17:1; Job 1:8; D&C 76:69). 

Noah, The Great Preacher of Righteousness. Joseph B. Romney. Ensign, February 1998.

 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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