Beehive home missionaries taught to say BY had only 2 wives?

[Tacenda]

I know the missionaries were vague about BY's wives when I went there a few years ago.  But it seems to have gotten worse.  I wonder why, especially with the openness of the church in their essays about JS's polygamy.  Sad that these wives are hidden. 

Brian Hales if you're reading, do you have some pull here? 

I long for the day when there is openness.  I remember when there was a portrait of BY's whole family or wives I believe, on the walls of the Beehive House when visiting as a child or pre teen. 

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2362949-155/rolly-visitor-gets-strange-lesson-on

From the article:  "Pebble Gifford is a descendant of an esteemed Massachusetts family and was excited to come to Utah this fall for a friend's wedding because it gave her a chance to research her special — if odd — connection to 19th-century Mormons.

When she was here, though, she received a strange lesson on genealogy.

She made it a point to visit Brigham Young's Beehive House in downtown Salt Lake City after she traveled from her home in Cambridge, Mass."

 

[Jeanne]

11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I know the missionaries were vague about BY's wives when I went there a few years ago.  But it seems to have gotten worse.  I wonder why, especially with the openness of the church in their essays about JS's polygamy.  Sad that these wives are hidden. 

Brian Hales if you're reading, do you have some pull here? 

I long for the day when there is openness.  I remember when there was a portrait of BY's whole family or wives I believe, on the walls of the Beehive House when visiting as a child or pre teen. 

http://www.sltrib.com/news/2362949-155/rolly-visitor-gets-strange-lesson-on

From the article:  "Pebble Gifford is a descendant of an esteemed Massachusetts family and was excited to come to Utah this fall for a friend's wedding because it gave her a chance to research her special — if odd — connection to 19th-century Mormons.

When she was here, though, she received a strange lesson on genealogy.

She made it a point to visit Brigham Young's Beehive House in downtown Salt Lake City after she traveled from her home in Cambridge, Mass."

 

Yeah..I just read that just about 10 minutes ago...couldn't believe that..but it doesn't surprise me one bit.  Imagine her surprise when she already knew her own history.  I think a lot of us grew up already knowing about Young's wives but I always thought you know..poor widows and stuff like that.  I am hoping that this was a unique situation where the guides just didn't bother with the whole thing,  I know that I didn't understand the full story until I read Fawn's book and others.  In the comment sections, there were people who said they were unaware of MMM until later on in life..that it was never really part of Utah History classes. 

Edited December 7, 2015 by Jeanne
Adding Thoughts

[Calm]

There appears to be no effort on the part of the reporter to check and see if her report is accurate or not.  It is accepted as a given it would appear.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Calm

[BookofMormonLuvr]

What does the raffle of the rifle have to do with anything?? What an utterly bizarre and poorly written article.

[Zakuska]

I wonder how much Joseph's Pepper box would go for if auctioned? Brighams famed "Bowe knife" would fetch quite a bit as well.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Zakuska

[Storm Rider]

Strange article.  To go from BY's wives and the cover-up about something that has long, long, long been as open as the great outdoors is open to the sun.  Then we go from there to, God forbid, a raffle of a rifle.  Shocking!  The whole tone makes me think of something that would have been read in the National Enquirer or The Globe of years ago where stories of Martians and three headed children was du jour.  

Would appreciate it if someone would actually go down and actually verify, you know, talk with a missionary or two about what they have been taught about BY and his plural wives.  This woman's ancestry should be of great interest to anyone interested in genealogy and Mormon cultural history.  I wonder why she did not visit the Family History Center on the other side of the block?  Does that surprise anyone?  

I wonder, did this person also jump out of the Salt Lake Temple into the Great Salt Lake to escape present day polygamists amorous pursuits?

Who exactly believes every jot and tittle read in a newspaper?  What if it was good news about the Church - is it believed so readily?  Yeah, ....not on your life.  I wonder why? 

[bluebell]

I was there in 2011 and they didn't even mention plural marriage.  The sisters who were giving the tour (we were the only people in attendance and they knew we were members) pointed out Brigham Young's wife's bedroom as if there had only been one, and when we asked about his other wives, they gave us deer in the headlight looks and didn't really say anything about them like where they lived or anything.

It's pretty stupid.

[BlueDreams]

Yeah this article is weird and reads like a gossip train. It could just be that her two guides were misinformed or didn't have all the information. I think of some of the info gap I had before a mission and some of that of my companions on basic things in the scriptures, let alone outside of it. And then what do guns have to do with misinformation about polygamy?

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, BookofMormonLuvr said:

What does the raffle of the rifle have to do with anything?? What an utterly bizarre and poorly written article.

I agree.  It wasn't relevant to anything in the article.  Or relevant to anything in life, really.

[Thinking]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

There appears to be no effort on the part of the reporter to check and see if her report is accurate or not.  It is accepted as a given it would appear.

It wouldn't be too difficult for the reporter to pretend to be non-LDS from out of town to verify that the missionaries really are giving that kind of information.

FWIW there is a Pebble Gifford who lives in Cambridge.

[Teancum]

8 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was there in 2011 and they didn't even mention plural marriage.  The sisters who were giving the tour (we were the only people in attendance and they knew we were members) pointed out Brigham Young's wife's bedroom as if there had only been one, and when we asked about his other wives, they gave us deer in the headlight looks and didn't really say anything about them like where they lived or anything.

It's pretty stupid.

 

 

Well amazingly enough we agree. I went on a tour of Brigham's mansion five years ago and nary a word about polygamy.

 

More proof the current LDS leadership hates polygamy and wishes it never would have happened yet cannot escape it.

[Calm]

It comes across as a 'let's see how weird we can make Utah look' piece.

 

Also a very slow news day or lazy reporter that decided they could get some copy (is that the right word, Scott?) out of a phone call from an indignant tourist. (I am assuming that is how he found out because there is nothing about it on her facebook page, perhaps she wrote about it elsewhere and he called her though).

Edited December 7, 2015 by Calm

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

This woman's ancestry should be of great interest to anyone interested in genealogy and Mormon cultural history.  I wonder why she did not visit the Family History Center on the other side of the block?  Does that surprise anyone?  

She is in a historical preservation group (may be president) for her hometown, so looks like she is interested in old buildings.

[Sanpitch]

Did not the Sunday School Manual of a few years ago state the same thing, that Brigham had only two wives, he married a second after his first one died.  I've never read the manual but from comments I've read that is the case.  Or in other words a complete lie.

[strappinglad]

When I toured the place quite a few years ago, they were quite open about all the wives and kids etc. Perhaps a missionary " family home evening " is called for. 

[SmileyMcGee]

did BY only have two "legal" wives? I'd probably be disappointed with the tour (assuming the news story is accurate), but i wouldn't blame the sisters for giving a technically correct response in an effort to avoid yet another polygamy discussion since they probably don't see it as integral to their purpose as missionaries...though it does seem like a silly answer given the info provided by the church on LDS.org. church history is fascinating stuff, nothing to be ashamed of.

Edited December 8, 2015 by SmileyMcGee

[Sanpitch]

7 minutes ago, SmileyMcGee said:

did BY only have two "legal" wives? I'd probably be disappointed with the tour (assuming the news story is accurate), but i wouldn't blame the sisters for giving a technically correct response in an effort to avoid yet another polygamy discussion since they probably don't see it as integral to their purpose as missionaries...those it does seem like a silly answer given the info provided by the church on LDS.org. church history is fascinating stuff, nothing to be ashamed of.

Jim Jones and David Koresh left a fascinating history also.

[halconero]

You can choose to believe this or not, but I'm dating someone who came home from serving on temple square about a year ago and inbetween making out I was able to confirm that they did indeed acknowledge Brigham Young's polygamy. The nefarious plot by church headqaurters to cover up plural marriage is about as elusive as the chap stick currently stuck somewhere in the couch cushions.

And no, I will not be answering calls for a CFR for various reasons unrelated to the veracity of said beau.

Edited December 8, 2015 by halconero

[Calm]

I would not be the least bit surprised if the responses varied with the sisters doing the responses and how comfortable they were speaking in front of a group off script and how comfortable they were with the subject to begin with.

[Tacenda]

Ok, boy a lot of you commented, while I was away.  I guess the gun thing made everything I mentioned go away, it was a dumb article I guess.  But IMO, they don't recognize the wives of BY on the tour where before they did, years ago. 

A few years ago, maybe 2, I made my husband take me to Nauvoo.  There also the wives are no where in sight except for Emma.  Maybe that was what Emma would have wanted, I don't know.  But still the sacrifice of JS's wives count too, I would think.  And no, in case anyone wondered, I didn't ask about them, today I might have. 

Thanks for the replies, even Halconero's, lol.  Still hoping for a change in the church's Visitor's Centers....

 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Tacenda

[halconero]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

I would not be the least bit surprised if the responses varied with the sisters doing the responses and how comfortable they were speaking in front of a group off script and how comfortable they were with the subject to begin with.

I believe this is spot-on. One thing to remember is that Temple Square missionaries are just that, missionaries, and not simply tour-guides. While there are presentations which are both learned and demonstrated there is still a huge emphasis on teaching from the heart, personal instruction, and following the Spirit. What this results in is varied companionships, varied individual missionaries, and not so much a regimented, expert tour guide.

[Calm]

47 minutes ago, Sanpitch said:

Did not the Sunday School Manual of a few years ago state the same thing, that Brigham had only two wives, he married a second after his first one died.  I've never read the manual but from comments I've read that is the case.  Or in other words a complete lie.

They removed mention of plural marriage and only listed his first two wives, but did not directly deny that he had others.  A 'sin' of omission, if you will.  They also edited talks about marriage that had "wives" to say "wife" to make it in line with current doctrine.  I don't believe there was a note informing that this is what they were doing.

I don't think it was a good idea to do it that way.  In latter texts, prophets that had plural wives didn't have any marriages mentioned.

[bluebell]

What about the other claims the woman made about BY having had a mistress and love child?  Anyone know anything about that?

[Calm]

They started mentioning plural marriage in the manuals, but I don't know with which president [Lorenzo Snow].  Here is one example:

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-of-presidents-of-the-church-lorenzo-snow/historical-summary?lang=eng

Quote

Enters into plural marriage, as then practiced in the Church, by marrying Charlotte Squires and Mary Adaline Goddard.

OTOH, for Wilford Woodruff:

Quote

The following chronology provides a brief historical framework for these teachings. It omits many significant events in secular history. It also omits many important events in President Woodruff’s personal life, such as his marriages and the births and deaths of his children.

Hmm...I thought they did it for all, but it looks like no mention of marriages only occurred for those prophets that were plurally married up to Lorenzo Snow, where they do mention as noted above.  For example, Harold B. Lee was the third text and his marriage is mentioned:

https://www.lds.org/manual/teachings-harold-b-lee/historical-summary?lang=eng

Quote

Marries Fern Lucinda Tanner in the Salt Lake Temple (24).

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by Calm

[JAHS]

I believe that his two "legal" wives did live in the Beehive house at various times but that his other "plural" wives lived mostly in the Lion house or other dwellings in the area.