Regiional Conference: Apolgetic Moment

[Calm]

Thought some of you might like this:

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking questions or investigating the Church's history, doctrine or practices, Elder Ballard said. He advised Church leaders to help those who come to them with difficult questions. “When someone comes to you with a question or concern, please don't brush the question off — do not tell him or her to not worry about the question. Please do not doubt the person's dedication to the Lord's work. Instead, help the person find the answers to their questions.”

Elder Ballard said that the Lord doesn't expect His Saints to have advanced degrees in Church history and doctrine, but members can still provide many — not all — answers for those who are sincere.

 

 

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865636709/Elder-Ballard-speaks-to-Utah-South-Area.html

[TheSkepticChristian]

"When someone comes to you with a question or concern, please don't brush the question off — do not tell him or her to not worry about the question. "

 

WOW 

[Robert F. Smith]

WOW 

Yes, I was quite taken with Elder Ballard's extended remarks at that 235-stake regional conference.  You may recall me saying just last week that there is no justification for browbeating a member who has serious questions to raise.  It is called "unrighteous dominion," and it should be disallowed within this great Church of ours.

[hagoth7]

Yes, I was quite taken with Elder Ballard's extended remarks at that 235-stake regional conference.  You may recall me saying just last week that there is no justification for browbeating a member who has serious questions to raise.  It is called "unrighteous dominion," and it should be disallowed within this great Church of ours.

Amen!

 

I'm excited! Extremely hopeful even!

 

On a similar note, as I recall, Elder Neil Andersen said not too long ago that the best learning happens in environments where people are allowed to voice their opinions (and concerns?) freely. That too gave me hope!

[Robert F. Smith]

Amen!

 

I'm excited! Extremely hopeful even!

 

On a similar note, as I recall, Elder Neil Andersen said not too long ago that the best learning happens in environments where people are allowed to voice their opinions (and concerns?) freely. That too gave me hope!

Yes, and a recent research report showed that successful organizations encourage disagreement and take negative ideas seriously.  Some have even suggested that disagreeing should be a professional, appointive position.  There are too many sycophants out there, and people in high places need to be told "no," on occasion.

 

You know, sometimes a man needs to have a wife tell him he is an idiot and bring him back down to reality on planet Earth.  Lovingly, of course.

[cinepro]

I know there are all different kinds of Bishops, but I've been talking about my concerns with my Bishops for the last 10 years, and I've never had a bad experience.

Edited September 15, 2015 by cinepro

[Scott Lloyd]

As with many things, setting and circumstances make a difference in this matter. I see a distinction between raising sincere questions and appealing for help in private (what I perceive Elder Ballard to have been referring to) and advocating a position in public.

With regard to the latter, there is a line between a question and a gripe, and that line often can be very difficult to discern.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Stargazer]

Yes, I was quite taken with Elder Ballard's extended remarks at that 235-stake regional conference.  You may recall me saying just last week that there is no justification for browbeating a member who has serious questions to raise.  It is called "unrighteous dominion," and it should be disallowed within this great Church of ours.

May I still browbeat TheSkepticChristian for overanalyzing my spiritual experiences, however?

[Stargazer]

Yes, and a recent research report showed that successful organizations encourage disagreement and take negative ideas seriously.  Some have even suggested that disagreeing should be a professional, appointive position.  There are too many sycophants out there, and people in high places need to be told "no," on occasion.

 

You know, sometimes a man needs to have a wife tell him he is an idiot and bring him back down to reality on planet Earth.  Lovingly, of course.

My wife has been fulfilling that purpose excellently for 35 years.

[RevTestament]

Does anyone know if there is a way this conference can be viewed on BYU/online/other?

[smac97]

Does anyone know if there is a way this conference can be viewed on BYU/online/other?

 

It was a regional conference for the Utah South area.  These are generally not re-broadcast or available for viewing after the event.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[HappyJackWagon]

I feel badly for the Bishops who are faced with answering questions they're not equipped to answer. They may not even be equipped to hear the question.

[stemelbow]

I feel badly for the Bishops who are faced with answering questions they're not equipped to answer. They may not even be equipped to hear the question.

yes me too. I remember going to my bishop with questions and concerns years ago and he responded with anger, not understanding where I was coming from. he told me to repent, released me from callings and told me I wasn't his bro in the gospel anymore. He simply had no idea what he was doing. It really makes ya think twice about the idea of going to your bishop at all. I'm sure some handle great. Others don't know what to do. SOme lash out, like many members do.

Whatever the case, my bishop and I are on pretty good terms. I let it all happen, no one knows, except my wife, and he and I do pretty well by each other these days. I dont' know that he'd say he learned anything from it or me, though. He's a pretty proud-type.

[smac97]

I feel badly for the Bishops who are faced with answering questions they're not equipped to answer. They may not even be equipped to hear the question.

 

Tonight the bishop in our ward is having a youth fireside.  A few weeks ago he asked the youth to submit questions to him anonymously (write them down on a slip of paper and place them in a box he had provided).  The only "off limits" topic was sex, as he asked the youth to first address questions on this topic to their parents, and then to him individually if they (and their parents) feel so inclined.  Other than that, any question about the Church and its doctrines, practices, history, etc. were on the table.  The bishop has since spent considerable time researching these questions, and he has compiled a handout with all of the questions and the answers he has prepared, complete with references to church materials (general conference talks, institute and seminary manuals, church magazine articles, etc.) and published "faithful scholarship" (Encyclopedia of Mormonism, BYU Studies articles, Maxwell Institute material, FAIR materials, The Interpreter, etc.).

 

He will also be having the fireside at his home.  And it will be an actual fireside (either a bonfire in his backyard or, if weather is inclement, by a fire in his fireplace).

 

I have three teenagers in the YM/YW programs who will be attending.  It should be interesting.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[RevTestament]

It was a regional conference for the Utah South area.  These are generally not re-broadcast or available for viewing after the event.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Thank you for your timely reply. I couldn't find anything online so thought I'd doublecheck.

[HappyJackWagon]

 

Does anyone know if there is a way this conference can be viewed on BYU/online/other?

 

There is a Mormon Stories podcast with audio of Elder Ballard's talk. You can listen to it with all the crying children in the background

http://mormonstories.org/ballard-utah-south-area-talk/

[KevinG]

I was helping set up chairs for our Stake Conference priesthood session several years back when Elder Brough tested the microphone by saying "Brethren tonight our talk will be on Blood Atonement."

 

There were only about two of us who caught the reference and we guffawed.  He grinned at us before returning to his seat to wait for the session.

[Scott Lloyd]

I feel badly for the Bishops who are faced with answering questions they're not equipped to answer. They may not even be equipped to hear the question.

Sorry, but this is another pet peeve of mine.

 

Unless you have a defect in your sense of touch, it should be "I feel bad for the bishops ...."

 

Feel is what is known as a linking verb. It links the subject I to its predicate adjective bad. Since bad in this instance modifies a noun and not a verb, it needs to take the adjective form bad, not the adverb form badly.

 

Here is some information on linking verbs.

 

And here is a list of linking verbs in addition to feel.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[Tacenda]

Edited to say that I'm listening to Elder Ballard's talk and so far, he has had some good things to say!  Not finished with listening, someone apparently recorded it, but so far pretty good. 

Edited September 15, 2015 by Tacenda

[hope_for_things]

Wow, this is an encouraging step in the right direction!  Two comments about the statement that I have: 

 

1.       The idea that answers actually exist for these complex questions about life and religion.   My experience has been very different, and false certainty can be much more damaging and stunts the growth of an individual. 

 

2.       Answers are available to the “sincere”.  The implication that I've heard in many discussions with doubters, this idea that perhaps they aren’t sincerely questioning, that they may have some ulterior nefarious motive at play.  This can be shaming and judgmental.  Lets give questioners the benefit of the doubt that they are already being sincere, no need to unnecessarily emphasize sincerity when it comes to questions about faith and religion. 

[smac97]

Wow, this is an encouraging step in the right direction!  Two comments about the statement that I have: 

 

1.       The idea that answers actually exist for these complex questions about life and religion.   My experience has been very different, and false certainty can be much more damaging and stunts the growth of an individual.

With respect, I think that answers do actually exist. Often it seems that we are simply not comfortable with the answers, or with the gaps in our understanding, or with the presuppositions that (should) underlie such inquiries. I am reminded of a statement made by Nephi in 1 Nephi 11. Nephi, having been shown a vision and having been asked a question about it by an angel, said "I know that he loveth his children; nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things." (v. 17). From this I learn a few things:

First, Nephi was willing to admit that he lacked understanding ("Nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things"). I think many Latter-day Saints, all along the spectrum from strongly devout to lukewarm to waivering to on-the-way-out, fail to sufficiently acknowledge the limits of our understanding ("For now we see through a glass, darkly" - 1 Cor. 13:12).

Second, Nephi sought to understand things of the Spirit through the Spirit, and through pondering and study (v. 1 - "For it came to pass after I had desired to know the things that my father had seen, and believing that the Lord was able to make them known unto me, as I sat pondering in mine heart I was caught away in the Spirit of the Lord..."). I think Latter-day Saints are someone differently situated than Nephi. That is, we have access to resources through which the Spirit can communicate. See, e.g., D&C 11:22 ("But now hold your peace; study my word which hath gone forth among the children of men, and also study my word which shall come forth among the children of men..."); D&C 90:15 ("Study and learn, and become acquainted with all good books, and with languages, tongues, and people..."); D&C 109:7 ("And as all have not faith, seek ye diligently and teach one another words of wisdom; yea, seek ye out of the best books words of wisdom, seek learning even by study and also by faith"); D&C 9:8 ("I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind..."). I am concerned that Latter-day Saints limit their study to online resources. This is, I think, a very serious deficiency. Having taught legal research courses in a university setting, I was often surprised at how reluctant students were to crack a book. There are many, many materials that are not online, or that are online but not indexed by search engines or are otherwise not easily accessed via boolean searches on Google (which, I think, is how too many of us do "research" these days").

Third, Nephi does not reinvent the wheel. His inquiry was based on what he knew at the time. His inquiry presupposed certain things, such as the existence of God, the character of God, and our relationship with God ("I know that (God) loveth his children..."). Nephi had fundamental truths in his mind and heart, and he then made inquiries based on those truths. I think Latter-day Saints could do well to emulate Nephi in this regard.

2.       Answers are available to the “sincere”.  The implication that I've heard in many discussions with doubters, this idea that perhaps they aren’t sincerely questioning, that they may have some ulterior nefarious motive at play.  This can be shaming and judgmental.  Lets give questioners the benefit of the doubt that they are already being sincere, no need to unnecessarily emphasize sincerity when it comes to questions about faith and religion.

Sounds good.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Scott Lloyd]

2.       Answers are available to the “sincere”.  The implication that I've heard in many discussions with doubters, this idea that perhaps they aren’t sincerely questioning, that they may have some ulterior nefarious motive at play.  This can be shaming and judgmental.  Lets give questioners the benefit of the doubt that they are already being sincere, no need to unnecessarily emphasize sincerity when it comes to questions about faith and religion. 

 

 

Sounds good.

Thanks,

-Smac

I'm all for giving folks the benefit of the doubt, but I quite disagree that sincerity should not be emphasized. Sincerity is, in fact, quite important as it can mean the difference between an honest quest for knowledge and the use of controversy as a club with which to beat up the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

And in some instances, there can be little or no doubt to give one the benefit of.

[ttribe]

I'm all for giving folks the benefit of the doubt, but I quite disagree that sincerity should not be emphasized. Sincerity is, in fact, quite important as it can mean the difference between an honest quest for knowledge and the use of controversy as a club with which to beat up the Church of Jesus Christ.

 

And in some instances, there can be little or no doubt to give one the benefit of.

 

Actually, it seems the default position is to immediately question the sincerity of the doubter.  That's a rather harmful approach, IMO.

[Thinking]

Sorry, but this is another pet peeve of mine.

 

Unless you have a defect in your sense of touch, it should be "I feel bad for the bishops ...."

 

Feel is what is known as a linking verb. It links the subject I to its predicate adjective bad. Since bad in this instance modifies a noun and not a verb, it needs to take the adjective form bad, not the adverb form badly.

 

Here is some information on linking verbs.

 

And here is a list of linking verbs in addition to feel.

 

Wrong thread.

[Scott Lloyd]

Actually, it seems the default position is to immediately question the sincerity of the doubter.  That's a rather harmful approach, IMO.

I don't concede that it is the default position, particularly in a setting such as Elder Ballard implies here, where someone approaches a bishop or other priesthood leader in private. I simply don't believe most bishops are that cynical (as "default position" would denote), though some might be, hence Elder Ballard's caution.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Scott Lloyd