Church Now Teaching Stone In Hat Translation

[mapman]

As of September 2015 the church is officially teaching that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon was translated with a seer stone placed in a hat while the plates were concealed.

 

I grew up seeing images like this of the translation:

 

However, I think that we won't be seeing many new images like this. The first sign of change came a couple of years ago when the church published the article "Book of Mormon Translation" in which it is said:

Nevertheless, the scribes and others who observed the translation left numerous accounts that give insight into the process. Some accounts indicate that Joseph studied the characters on the plates. Most of the accounts speak of Joseph’s use of the Urim and Thummim (either the interpreters or the seer stone), and many accounts refer to his use of a single stone. According to these accounts, Joseph placed either the interpreters or the seer stone in a hat, pressed his face into the hat to block out extraneous light, and read aloud the English words that appeared on the instrument. The process as described brings to mind a passage from the Book of Mormon that speaks of God preparing “a stone, which shall shine forth in darkness unto light.”

However, some said that the church wasn't trying to actually educate people about the translation process, and that the essays just served to be plausible deniability. However, starting a couple months ago the church has begun to educate its members in earnest with this new narrative. Consider the following:

 

The new institute manual for the class "Foundations of the Restoration" which is now being used for classes this fall says this in chapter 3:

Explain that another instrument Joseph Smith used while translating the Book of Mormon was a small oval stone, sometimes referred to as a “seer stone,” that he discovered several years before he obtained the gold plates (see “Book of Mormon Translation,” Gospel Topics, lds.org/topics). The historical account indicates that the Prophet sometimes used the Urim and Thummim and sometimes used the seer stone to translate. [it then quotes the part of the essay that I included above.]

 

This statement appears in this month's Ensign in an article entitled "Joseph Smith in Harmony:"

By 1825, young Joseph had a reputation in Manchester and Palmyra for his activities as a treasure seer, or someone who used a seer stone to locate gold or other valuable objects buried in the earth... Not all the details about the translation of the Book of Mormon are known, but Joseph and his scribes did mention his use of two instruments. One was the Urim and Thummim (called the “interpreters” in the Book of Mormon), which Joseph received with the plates and “which consisted of two transparent stones set in the rim of a bow.” The other instrument was a seer stone that Joseph had found some years before. Both of these instruments helped him translate the plates “by the gift, and power of God.”

 

This will appear in next month's Ensign in the article "Joseph the Seer:"

In fact, historical evidence shows that in addition to the two seer stones known as “interpreters,” Joseph Smith used at least one other seer stone in translating the Book of Mormon, often placing it into a hat in order to block out light. According to Joseph’s contemporaries, he did this in order to better view the words on the stone... The stone pictured here has long been associated with Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon translation. The stone Joseph Smith used in the Book of Mormon translation effort was often referred to as a chocolate-colored stone with an oval shape. This stone passed from Joseph Smith to Oliver Cowdery and then to the Church through Brigham Young and others.

 

 

Visitors to the newly restored Smith home in Harmony, Pennsylvania, will see this desk representing the translation of the Book of Mormon. Note the plates wrapped up and the hat:

(Source)

 

Conclusion: The church has changed the way it tells the story of the Book of Mormon translation to be more historically accurate.

 

I predict that the next time that the church films a rendition of the translation story it will have the seer stone in a hat.

I also predict that general awareness of the translation method in the church will cause us to reflect on what that means about what "translation" meant to Joseph Smith and what that means about what the text of the Book of Mormon is, and how it differs from conventional scholarly translations.

 

What do you guys think of this change the church is making?
What do you predict will be the effect on church members?

Edited September 12, 2015 by mapman

[carbon dioxide]

What do you guys think of this change the church is making?

What do you predict will be the effect on church members?

Whether the plates were translated with a seer stone in a hat or not really does not matter to me.  I worry more about the end product being the Book of Mormon text than the exact methodology of how we got it.  If one has a testimony of the text itself than I don't see anyone having a big issue with it.

[Duncan]

I think it's a good thing. It seems that people want it both ways, they are upset when they think the Church hides things and then they are upset when the church comes out with things so, I say it forge ahead and if people get bent outta shape then that is their choice

Edited September 12, 2015 by Duncan

[carbon dioxide]

I think it's a good thing. It seems that people want it both ways, they are upset when they think the Church hides things and then they are upset when the church comes out with things so, I saw it forge ahead and if people get bent outta shape then that is their choice

Can't please everyone so no reason to bother trying. 

[Duncan]

Can't please everyone so no reason to bother trying. 

 

bingo

[longview]

Is it not true that JS used the interpreters in the beginning of the process?  When Martin Harris lost the 119 pages (possible Book of Lehi), the interpreters and Gold Plates were taken from him for a period of time.  When he resumed translation, were the interpreters returned to him?  If not, then he was able to use the "Seer Stone" for however long he needed it.  Then he spent the remainder of the time translating solely by the Spirit without the use of any U&T.   The Gift and Power of God?

[Jeanne]

A wonderful big step and improvement.  I understand that it will take easing in and time to make this a normal thing.  Kudos for those who are doing this.

Maybe in time, the pics will replace those primary pictures and give everyone a sense of normal of truth.

[strappinglad]

I wonder how the new pictures will represent the Plates now. Will they be off in a corner under a blanket? How about on the table but covered so they could just as easily be a pan of bread rising? How about not there at all to suggest a ' metaphorical ' book ?

[Robert F. Smith]

https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/images/magazines/ensign/2015/10/seer-stone-joseph-smith-ensign-liahona-october-2015_1512979_inl.jpg .

 

This is the "seer-stone" which was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated -- there being referred to erroneously as an "Urim and Thummim." B. H. Roberts described it thus:

 

The seer stone referred to here was a chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in company with his brother Hyrum, . . .  It possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it--as described above--as well as by means of the Interpreters found with the Nephite record, Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates.  Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I:129.

 

This sort of information has been available to anyone wishing to look for it for years.  Yet very few were at all aware of it.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[JLHPROF]

Two stones set in a breastplate and spectacles or a single stone placed in a hat.  Don't see how that makes a bit of difference.

Those that have issues with the use of a stone in general won't like either.

Those that don't care or don't give it any thought won't be affected by it.

Those that believe and accept the use of stones and have a doctrinal curiosity will add the information to their internal gospel library.

 

Either way, it's a bit of a non-issue.

[maklelan]

I predict that the next time that the church films a rendition of the translation story it will have the seer stone in a hat.

They're not there yet. They just filmed a translation scene, and what they did is obscure the process entirely, so you don't see the plates or a hat or anything else. You just see Smith sitting at a table talking to Oliver.

[JAHS]

This is the "seer-stone" which was on the altar in the Manti Temple when that building was dedicated -- there being referred to erroneously as an "Urim and Thummim." B. H. Roberts described it thus:

 

The seer stone referred to here was a chocolate-colored, somewhat egg-shaped stone which the Prophet found while digging a well in company with his brother Hyrum, . . .  It possessed the qualities of Urim and Thummim, since by means of it--as described above--as well as by means of the Interpreters found with the Nephite record, Joseph was able to translate the characters engraven on the plates.  Comprehensive History of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I:129.

 

This sort of information has been available to anyone wishing to look for it for years.  Yet very few were at all aware of it.

Including a description of the stone over 40 years ago in a Children's Friend article.

 

https://www.lds.org/friend/1974/09/a-peaceful-heart?lang=eng

[Storm Rider]

I get rather annoyed with the silliness of the complaints about the issue.  Some expect art to be strictly historical or literal; others just like art for what it makes the feel and the literalness of an event is at best a second priority.  Others hem and haw, whine and complain, bark, and moan - it is really their state of mind and has nothing to do with the Church, its teachings, or its history.

 

If anyone read they would have known of stone(s) and the U&T.  I tend to resent anyone that only summarizes the translation process as Joseph using a stone in the hat.  He used several processes to translate the Book of Mormon and if art is to be "literal" it would need to depict all three.....which, of course, would result in very uninteresting art.  

 

Press on, leave the whiners behind, and seek after the best of things for our own happiness.  Every now and then it would be nice to slap the silliness out of some people - to assist them in waking up and not for any personal pleasure. 

[mapman]

They're not there yet. They just filmed a translation scene, and what they did is obscure the process entirely, so you don't see the plates or a hat or anything else. You just see Smith sitting at a table talking to Oliver.

That's interesting. Do you have any more information or sources about this new film?

[maklelan]

That's interesting. Do you have any more information or sources about this new film?

It's just a short video, but there's not much else I can say.

[why me]

The problem with the head in the hat translation is getting nonmembers to believe it and understand. It needs to start with the missionaries. They need to sell the product. And they need to be convinced of it or have a testimony of it. If not, they may bring such a translation process in unbelieveable ways. In the 70s most knew of the head in the hat translation. And we knew about the  seerstone.

 

To write a book with one's head is quite a feat. I suppose that it could start there with the question: If not by the power of god, how could anyone write a book with their head in a hat?

 

This question may work.

 

However when I answered a question from a friend about the translation, I presented the head in the hat technique and my friend gave me an 'oooo----kay' as if I were a nut. The translation process may not have been too unique in the early 1800s but now....it may sound a little dated.

Edited September 13, 2015 by why me

[ALarson]

The problem with the head in the hat translation is getting nonmembers to believe it and understand. It needs to start with the missionaries. They need to sell the product. And they need to be convinced of it or have a testimony of it. If not, they may bring such a translation process in unbelieveable ways. In the 70s most knew of the head in the hat translation. And we knew about the  seerstone.

Maybe in your ward "most knew of the head in the hat translation' in the 70's, but from what I've read and heard, that was not the case church wide.  I know there are some random references to this in the Ensign or Institute Manuals, but I haven't seen it included in any Sunday teaching materials for lessons.  Also, some may have know about the seerstone, but I believe not "most".

 

 

However when I answered a question from a friend about the translation, I presented the head in the hat technique and my friend gave me an 'oooo----kay' as if I were a nut. The translation process may not have been too unique in the early 1800s but now....it may sound a little dated.

 

It sounds very odd and it also looks odd (that's why the majority of illustrations depicting Joseph translating do not portray him with his head in his hat).  I think the bigger problem for members (from what I've seen in discussing this), is that the plates were not used (in the manner previously portrayed) or even present during much of the translating.

Edited September 13, 2015 by ALarson

[Robert F. Smith]

You can find a photo and description of the Mayan zaztun, "clear-stone (rock crystal)," in National Geographic, 148/6 (Dec 1975):746-747.  It was apparently a geode, which was typically placed in balche (mead) to "quicken" it, and could then be used to divine the the future, the cause of an illness or other problem, and even to work a cure.  This is what Walter Krickeberg tells us in his "Mesoamerica," in Krickeberg, Trimborn, Mueller, and Zerries, Pre-Columbian American Religions (1968), 75, citing Eduard Seler, Gesammelte Abhandlungen zur amerikanischen Sprach- und Altertumskunde, II (1902/1923), 778-782 = Collected Works in North- and South-American Linguistics and Archaeology (2002). 

[Robert F. Smith]

 

Maybe in your ward "most knew of the head in the hat translation' in the 70's, but from what I've read and heard, that was not the case church wide.  I know there are some random references to this in the Ensign or Institute Manuals, but I haven't seen it included in any Sunday teaching materials for lessons.  Also, some may have know about the seerstone, but I believe not "most".

 

It sounds very odd and it also looks odd (that's why the majority of illustrations depicting Joseph translating do not portray him with his head in his hat).  I think the bigger problem for members (from what I've seen in discussing this), is that the plates were not used (in the manner previously portrayed) or even present during much of the translating.

 

For other artwork depicting Joseph looking in his hat, see Richard S. Van Wagoner and Steven C. Walker, "Joseph Smith: 'The Gift of Seeing'", Dialogue, 15/2 (Summer 1982):48-68, online at http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/dialogue/id/16574 . 

Edited September 14, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[canard78]

Is it not true that JS used the interpreters in the beginning of the process? When Martin Harris lost the 119 pages (possible Book of Lehi), the interpreters and Gold Plates were taken from him for a period of time. When he resumed translation, were the interpreters returned to him? If not, then he was able to use the "Seer Stone" for however long he needed it. Then he spent the remainder of the time translating solely by the Spirit without the use of any U&T. The Gift and Power of God?

By most accounts it was "head in hat" for the entirety of the BoM translation. He only stopped using any stone at all with later revelations (Book of Moses, Abraham, D&C)

[Bernard Gui]

Translating through two stones mounted in a bow.

Or...

Translating through a stone in a hat.

Or...

Translating with no external apparatus.

Which one is more objectionable to the skeptic?

Edited September 14, 2015 by Bernard Gui

[california boy]

Translating through two stones mounted in a bow.

Or...

Translating through a stone in a hat.

Or...

Translating with no external apparatus.

Which one is more objectionable to the skeptic?

 

Well with two stones and a bow,  was Joseph at least looking at the gold plates?  With the head in the hat, the plates become irrelevant and explaining why they were even there is a bit of a mystery.

[Robert F. Smith]

Translating through two stones mounted in a bow.

Or...

Translating through a stone in a hat.

Or...

Translating with no external apparatus.

Which one is more objectionable to the skeptic?

Well with two stones and a bow,  was Joseph at least looking at the gold plates?  With the head in the hat, the plates become irrelevant and explaining why they were even there is a bit of a mystery.

There may be sound pedagogy here, beginning with the visible presence and use of the plates and interpreters (spectacles), which Joseph uses as he copies and translates lines of text -- which Martin Harris takes to some scholars -- then moving to a major phase in which the plates are wrapped in cheesecloth and kept on the table nearby while Joseph translates using his seerstone in his hat method, then to a final phase in which there are no plates and no interpreters available.

 

The "training wheels" have been removed as the young'un got more confidence and capacity.  We do this in so many areas of learning and training, that I am astonished that anyone would see it as mysterious.

Edited September 15, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

Is it not true that JS used the interpreters in the beginning of the process? When Martin Harris lost the 119 pages (possible Book of Lehi), the interpreters and Gold Plates were taken from him for a period of time. When he resumed translation, were the interpreters returned to him? If not, then he was able to use the "Seer Stone" for however long he needed it. Then he spent the remainder of the time translating solely by the Spirit without the use of any U&T. The Gift and Power of God?

By most accounts it was "head in hat" for the entirety of the BoM translation. He only stopped using any stone at all with later revelations (Book of Moses, Abraham, D&C)

longview is correct, as I have already pointed out many times.  Joseph used both interpreters (spectacles) and the plates at the outset.  canard is confusing different phases of Joseph's experience.

Edited September 14, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[thesometimesaint]

The trouble I have with these views is that they are inconsistent with the Scriptures.and logic.

 

Martin Harris was upbraided for taking no thought other than to ask.

SEE  D&C 9:7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.

 

If translating the Book of Mormon was the simple matter of looking into a hat with a stone(or any object) placed in it, and reading the words that appeared. Then the plates and their acquisition was irrelevant and unnecessary.