The "mass Resignation Event" Of July 25, 2015

[carbon dioxide]

It's going to have to hurry if you want it to "fill the earth".  Mormonism is about .2% if you use the generously mentioned 15 million number and you say we are in the Latter days.  One has to give.   You need to speed up or Christ is going to have to delay His return.

The time period to "fill the earth"  does not have to occur before Christ comes.  It very easily could be during that 1000 year period after when the wicked are removed from the earth.  I anticipate the Church to struggle up to the point when Christ comes.  If the world is more wicked than in the times of Noah, we should not expect results to be massively different than his time.  If the Book of Mormon is a pattern for our day and the Church struggled right up to 3 Nephi when Christ came to the Nephites, there is no reason to think we will not struggle as well.

[Mars]

this sort of stuff bums me out.  people leaving because they no longer believe is one kind of sadness.  people making a statement over it is another.

 

wish they'd have found a reason to stay.  if they will not believe in Mormonism's Gospel, i wish them the best and hope they find something that brings them peace and happiness.

[JAHS]

It's going to have to hurry if you want it to "fill the earth".  Mormonism is about .2% if you use the generously mentioned 15 million number and you say we are in the Latter days.  One has to give.   You need to speed up or Christ is going to have to delay His return.

Filling the earth does not mean numbers of baptisms; it means getting the word out to the world of the restoration, which the missionary work is doing quite well at both in this life and the spirit world. 

[carbon dioxide]

Here:

Kelly, who was excommunicated from the church last year after advocating for the inclusion of women in the all-male LDS priesthood, said that Mormons should stay in the faith if it brings them joy, and leave if it doesn't.

"If you stay, you should raise hell," she said. "I think you have a moral imperative to make it a better place for children and especially for girls."

 

This woman really has issues.  So if you find that Mormonism brings you joy then one should stay with it.  But if you stay with it, you should raise hell.  Why should anyone raise hell if it brings them joy?   Would Mrs Kelly endorse the view that you should stay with a spouse if they bring you joy but if you stay with that spouse that brings you joy, you should raise hell to get them to change? 

[JAHS]

It seems like some of these folks are making a hobby of resigning their Church membership not once but several times. Maybe they could have a contest to see who can rack up the most number of resignations. They could put it in their speaker's bios for the Ex-Mormon Conference: "Mr. Blowhard is a veteran of five staged resignations from the Mormon church."

 

Yes it reminds me of this furniture store in our town that has a "going out of business" sale every few months, but they never seem to actually go out of business.   

Edited July 26, 2015 by JAHS

[Thinking]

How does less than a 100 people resigning constitutes evidence of a house of cards falling down, then there is no need to worry.

 

In the spirit of Scott Lloyd's Idiom thread, those 100 people could be the tip of the iceberg.

[Scott Lloyd]

The time period to "fill the earth" does not have to occur before Christ comes. It very easily could be during that 1000 year period after when the wicked are removed from the earth. I anticipate the Church to struggle up to the point when Christ comes. If the world is more wicked than in the times of Noah, we should not expect results to be massively different than his time. If the Book of Mormon is a pattern for our day and the Church struggled right up to 3 Nephi when Christ came to the Nephites, there is no reason to think we will not struggle as well.

In fact prophecy is already being fulfilled in this matter. The church of the Lamb of God is over the face of the earth, but it's numbers are few by reason of Satan and his followers, just as Nephi beheld in vision.

I'm confident it will transpire just as you say. The Church will be few in number until the Millennial day, and only then will it begin to fill the earth.

Comments such as that of sdc reflect lack of comprehension of scripture and prophecy.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[JLHPROF]

In the spirit of Scott Lloyd's Idiom thread, those 100 people could be the tip of the iceberg.

 

They might be the very tippy tip ice crystal, but that hardly constitutes a mass resignation, except I suppose that 100 "resigned" together.

But for it to be a "mass resignation" of Church members I suppose less than .1% doesn't really count.

[Rivers]

Does any other church have mass resignations?

[JAHS]

Everyone's body has mass. So if even one person resigns it could be called a mass resignation. :-)

[Saint Sinner]

I can't dignify this as an actual protest. Just mail in the letter. No big deal.

[sdc999]

Filling the earth does not mean numbers of baptisms; it means getting the word out to the world of the restoration, which the missionary work is doing quite well at both in this life and the spirit world. 

The context in which "house of cards" was used directly implied the LDS church (as in church membership numbers)

 

Comments such as that of sdc reflect lack of comprehension of scripture and prophecy.

I have never claimed to be a scriptorian .  But I do comprehend that my Savior is  Jesus Christ.  

[cinepro]

Does any other church have mass resignations?

 

I know JW's, Scientology and the Amish have pretty active online communities of former members, but I think they have a much harder time communicating with current members.  Those churches seem to do a really good job of separating the current members from the former one.  They also don't have ways for current "doubting" members to form groups in order to organize "mass resignations".

Edited July 26, 2015 by cinepro

[cinepro]

How does less than a 100 people resigning constitutes evidence of a house of cards falling down, then there is no need to worry.  All of them and more were replaced just by 8 year old kids being baptized today.

I think the biggest problem is when formerly active, middle class members resign.

Obviously "all are alike unto God", but when it comes to running a Church (especially tithing and competent leadership), there are very few members who are willing and capable of running the program and donating a full tithe to sustain it.  If these members are resigning, it could be a huge problem for the Church.  And from what I've seen over the last 10 years, many of the resignations are those caliber of LDS (and from families of that caliber).

 

It's great that a bunch of eight year olds were baptized yesterday, but it will be at least 10 years before some portion of them are able to go on missions, and years after that that an even smaller portion is ready to pay significant tithing and serve in leadership positions.

[carbon dioxide]

I think the biggest problem is when formerly active, middle class members resign.

Obviously "all are alike unto God", but when it comes to running a Church (especially tithing and competent leadership), there are very few members who are willing and capable of running the program and donating a full tithe to sustain it.  If these members are resigning, it could be a huge problem for the Church.  And from what I've seen over the last 10 years, many of the resignations are those caliber of LDS (and from families of that caliber).

 

It's great that a bunch of eight year olds were baptized yesterday, but it will be at least 10 years before some portion of them are able to go on missions, and years after that that an even smaller portion is ready to pay significant tithing and serve in leadership positions.

The Church did ok 30 years ago when there was far fewer members than today.  There is enough in reserve to keep the Church going.  Many of these who have resigned checked out a while ago.  They just have not made it official.  Whether their names are on the roles but not participating or their names off the roles and not participating, its the same.

[CV75]

Thoughts?

Is a "resign on-line" option coming?

[cinepro]

The Church did ok 30 years ago when there was far fewer members than today.  There is enough in reserve to keep the Church going.  Many of these who have resigned checked out a while ago.  They just have not made it official.  Whether their names are on the roles but not participating or their names off the roles and not participating, its the same.

 

That's not how a big business like the Church works.  There is a certain amount of infrastructure and "fixed costs", both financial and in demands for leadership and volunteer effort, that are critical.  If the Church had to adjust back to its scale from 30 years ago (far fewer temples and chapels, for instance), it would be a huge adjustment.  It would be like Walmart seeing a shrinking customer base and saying "It's okay, we had fewer stores and customers 30 years ago, and we were fine." Uh, no.  A business and Church that saw such "negative growth" would more likely be in a death-spiral on its way to bankruptcy (or for a Church, social insignificance).

 

It would also be interesting to see how the changing demographics of the Church impact these equations.  Again, I recognize the eternal value of each soul to a loving Heavenly Father, but if the Church is losing wealthy, middle-class members in first world countries and replacing them with poor people in third world countries that lack leadership skills (for example, areas where missionaries have to serve in Branch leadership positions, and the members contribute little if any tithing and few offerings), then it is not a good thing for the long-term health of the Church.

 

I suspect the Church has some pretty good data on this, and watches these numbers closely. 

Edited July 26, 2015 by cinepro

[why me]

Here:

On Saturday, six years after ending her participation in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, (Logan resident Stephanie) Engle took a final step to sever her ties with the Salt Lake City-based faith.

With a signed letter in hand, Engle joined with roughly 100 current and former Mormons — including Ordain Women co-founder Kate Kelly — at a mass-resignation event a block from the church's downtown headquarters.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

-Smac

Kate is all about kate and getting some publicity for herself to show her own importance. Why would someone who has been excommunicated be at a mass resignation event, if not to get a little fame in the newspaper? However, I don't think that this small event made any news other than outside Utah.

 

Critics have been predicting the downfall of the church for quite some time now on critic boards. I suppose that it can be healthy to engage in wishful thinking. The essays were not done because of nervousness but rather to take back the narrative from the critics and the essays are succeeding in doing this. We also need to remember that the joseph smith papers were years in the making. Not just something that started and finished in weeks. I think that the church is doing much to get the word out there and unlike many other churches are engaging their history in faith based ways. The membership will be the stronger for it.

 

Reading about the linked event, I had this feeling that those involved knew that it failed to rally a crowd. Walking around, getting separated and then regrouping must have been a depressing moment for all of them.

Edited July 26, 2015 by why me

[why me]

That's not how a big business like the Church works.  There is a certain amount of infrastructure and "fixed costs", both financial and in demands for leadership and volunteer effort, that are critical.  If the Church had to adjust back to its scale from 30 years ago (far fewer temples and chapels, for instance), it would be a huge adjustment.  It would be like Walmart seeing a shrinking customer base and saying "It's okay, we had fewer stores and customers 30 years ago, and we were fine." Uh, no.  A business and Church that saw such "negative growth" would more likely be in a death-spiral on its way to bankruptcy (or for a Church, social insignificance).

Big business? Nice try. Of course major churches are organizations that depend on good administrative skills. And also on investments. Many churches are feeling the crunch. The catholic church is selling off property, the espiscopal church also is selling off property as are various other churches in financial need or who are seeing a demographic shift. I think that as members move to where the jobs are, chapels or branches can close or wards can become branches. The church only has a few million members in the USA. Basically it is social insignificant in most parts of the usa. And this holds true no matter where it is in the world. Where the strength does come is in each individual member and the example that these members set in the workplaces and in the home and in other parts of life. This is where the church has strength.

Edited July 26, 2015 by why me

[Thinking]

All of them and more were replaced just by 8 year old kids being baptized today.

 

No need to worry. All is well!

 

Perhaps you need to read your own scriptures.

 

2 Nephi 28:24-25

24 Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!

25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!

[Jeanne]

Is a "resign on-line" option coming?

Already happening.

[Jeanne]

If 100 already less-actives resign near a building does anyone hear?

Only a hundred?   Does anyone care?  I guess not.  May 200,000 might make some noise..a hundred don't matter.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Jeanne

[Thinking]

It also bugs me that these people think that the bishop is the best person to discuss some of these issues with.  Bishops are busy and they are not called because they are the most informed of the ward. One would think they would find the most informed members they could and talk to them about issues that bother them if the bishop is not the best source.

 

I went to sacrament meeting today and the bishop issued a brand new calling to Brother CO₂: The Most Informed Member of the Ward.

 

Any members with doctrinal questions will contact CO₂ first. If he can't answer the question, the member will be directed to contact...

 

Where is the published list of most informed members for those who have questions?

[smac97]

If 100 already less-actives resign near a building does anyone hear?

 

Well, the Lord does.  The Prodigal Son exemplifies that.  So too does Matthew 18:13 ("How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?").  

 

I think we should mourn the loss of those who have strayed and prayer for their welfare and that they may some day return.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[smac97]

Only a hundred?   Does anyone care?  I guess not.  May 200,000 might make some noise..a hundred don't matter.

 

Every soul matters.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac