The "mass Resignation Event" Of July 25, 2015

[smac97]

It also bugs me that these people think that the bishop is the best person to discuss some of these issues with.  Bishops are busy and they are not called because they are the most informed of the ward. One would think they would find the most informed members they could and talk to them about issues that bother them if the bishop is not the best source.

I think individuals with concerns/questions should address them with their bishop. The bishop can then address them on his own, or work with the individual, or take such other steps as may be necessary.

 

The Church recently issued a statement regarding same-sex marriage, along with supplemental materials, the latter of which includes the following question and answer:

 

What if I have reservations of my own regarding the Church’s position on this subject?

 

“Members who . . . have doctrinal questions should make a diligent effort, including earnest prayer and scripture study, to find solutions and answers themselves.    Church members are encouraged to seek guidance from the Holy Ghost to help them in their personal lives and in family and Church responsibilities.

 

“If members still need help, they should counsel first with their bishop.  If necessary, he may refer them to the stake president.

 

“. . . Stake presidents who need clarification about doctrinal or other Church matters may write in behalf of their members to the First Presidency” (Handbook 2, 21.1.24).

 

I think this process can and should be used regularly in the Church by those with doctrinal questions/concerns.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

[Deborah]

Seriously, if one is disaffected just leave. Why make a big scene. Or send in a letter requesting removal of your name. They need to grow up and have some dignity.

[ERayR]

How does less than a 100 people resigning constitutes evidence of a house of cards falling down, then there is no need to worry.  All of them and more were replaced just by 8 year old kids being baptized today. 

 

 

Not even a drop in the bucket.  The Kirtland period had a 30% apostasy rate.  To reach that it would take 4.5 to 5 million.

[ERayR]

It's going to have to hurry if you want it to "fill the earth".  Mormonism is about .2% if you use the generously mentioned 15 million number and you say we are in the Latter days.  One has to give.   You need to speed up or Christ is going to have to delay His return.

You have a serious misunderstanding.  It does not have to be majority of people but only needs to be available in all/most areas of the world.  Don't mistake numbers with availability.

[why me]

Seriously, if one is disaffected just leave. Why make a big scene. Or send in a letter requesting removal of your name. They need to grow up and have some dignity.

 

This is the problem: childishness. I have to wonder what it is about the lds church that causes such behavior in its members. I would assume that it has to do with the concept of community. The lds church is a community of individuals and it is very strong with its community attachments. I am sure that when some members leave, they seek some sort of community to nurse them through the process. Thus, we have all these various mormon related sites where people can feel that they belong to a certain community. Thus, we have various mormon related sites for people who leave the lds church with each site exclaiming to  be for a certain group of individuals. Thus, we have post mormon sites, new order mormon sites, exmormon sites, born again mormon sites, humanist mormon sites etc.

 

In this case about the mass resignations we have a small group of mormons who either have been exed or resigned already, helping others to leave the lds church through a 'mass resignation' campaign around temple square. Again the community concept. Mormons when they leave the lds community must find another community to belong to. It is in the mormon dna.

[smac97]

Deborah,

> Seriously, if one is disaffected just leave.

==Or stay and repent. Wouldn't that be better?

> Why make a big scene. Or send in a letter requesting removal of your name. They need to grow up and have some dignity.

==I also dislike the all-about-me theatrics of Kate Kelly and people like her.

Thanks,

-Smac

[JLHPROF]

Only a hundred?   Does anyone care?  I guess not.  May 200,000 might make some noise..a hundred don't matter.

 

Of course people care.  But agency still trumps.

Throughout history people have moved their lives towards the true gospel and away from the true gospel.

There is little that can be done except extending the hand of fellowship.  Nobody can be forced to stay.  And those convinced or manipulated into staying when they have no testimony or desire to be there will likely leave eventually.

 

We have compassion for those who wonder, just as Christ did for the lost sheep.  But we cannot force members to stay.

[bluebell]

Seriously, if one is disaffected just leave. Why make a big scene. Or send in a letter requesting removal of your name. They need to grow up and have some dignity.

 

Because despite what they say they really do want to 'sock it to the church' so to speak.  If this event wasn't at least partially aimed at the church and active members, they wouldn't hold it right next door to temple square.

[The Nehor]

Well, the Lord does.  The Prodigal Son exemplifies that.  So too does Matthew 18:13 ("How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?").  

 

I think we should mourn the loss of those who have strayed and prayer for their welfare and that they may some day return.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

 

I do pray for them but the reality is many of them were not living their covenants already. This is a symbolic act supporting an already made decision. I am not going to weep for the symbol.

[smac97]

Because despite what they say they really do want to 'sock it to the church' so to speak.  If this event wasn't at least partially aimed at the church and active members, they wouldn't hold it right next door to temple square.

And they wouldn't be saying things like 1) accusing the Church of "disgusting" treatment of "women and children" and the "gay community"; 2) accusing the Church of having "a number of issues of discrimination within" it; 3) asserting that the doctrines of the Church are "so obviously not true"; 4) explaining that some of the participants "feel like they need to ostracize themselves from their Mormon families"; 5) alleging that Latter-day Saints "don't critically think very much"; and 6) instructing those who choose stay in the Church "have a moral imperative" to "raise hell" in it.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Edited July 27, 2015 by smac97

[Tacenda]

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[Okrahomer]

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[Tacenda]

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[carbon dioxide]

That's not how a big business like the Church works.  There is a certain amount of infrastructure and "fixed costs", both financial and in demands for leadership and volunteer effort, that are critical.  If the Church had to adjust back to its scale from 30 years ago (far fewer temples and chapels, for instance), it would be a huge adjustment.  It would be like Walmart seeing a shrinking customer base and saying "It's okay, we had fewer stores and customers 30 years ago, and we were fine." Uh, no.  A business and Church that saw such "negative growth" would more likely be in a death-spiral on its way to bankruptcy (or for a Church, social insignificance).

 

It would also be interesting to see how the changing demographics of the Church impact these equations.  Again, I recognize the eternal value of each soul to a loving Heavenly Father, but if the Church is losing wealthy, middle-class members in first world countries and replacing them with poor people in third world countries that lack leadership skills (for example, areas where missionaries have to serve in Branch leadership positions, and the members contribute little if any tithing and few offerings), then it is not a good thing for the long-term health of the Church.

 

I suspect the Church has some pretty good data on this, and watches these numbers closely. 

Some businesses do have to restructure and close and sell off stores that are not doing well.  If a bunch of people left the Church, it would have to sell off some assets and restructure how it does some things but the Church would survive and would grow again.  I am sure it watches trends and numbers and will make adjustments when needed.

[The Nehor]

That's not how a big business like the Church works.  There is a certain amount of infrastructure and "fixed costs", both financial and in demands for leadership and volunteer effort, that are critical.  If the Church had to adjust back to its scale from 30 years ago (far fewer temples and chapels, for instance), it would be a huge adjustment.  It would be like Walmart seeing a shrinking customer base and saying "It's okay, we had fewer stores and customers 30 years ago, and we were fine." Uh, no.  A business and Church that saw such "negative growth" would more likely be in a death-spiral on its way to bankruptcy (or for a Church, social insignificance).

 

It would also be interesting to see how the changing demographics of the Church impact these equations.  Again, I recognize the eternal value of each soul to a loving Heavenly Father, but if the Church is losing wealthy, middle-class members in first world countries and replacing them with poor people in third world countries that lack leadership skills (for example, areas where missionaries have to serve in Branch leadership positions, and the members contribute little if any tithing and few offerings), then it is not a good thing for the long-term health of the Church.

 

I suspect the Church has some pretty good data on this, and watches these numbers closely.

I have heard rumors, well sourced rumors from people I believe and who could know, but still rumors that the church will experience a major shift in the next few decades and from what I hear they expect North American members will have a hard time with them. The church will adapt more completely to local conditions and be less tied to standing institutions like the three hour block, having church buildings everywhere there is a congregation, shifting missionary assignments, and other changes.

We live in interesting times.

Then again it might just all be idle wind.

[Scott Lloyd]

I have heard rumors, well sourced rumors from people I believe and who could know, but still rumors that the church will experience a major shift in the next few decades and from what I hear they expect North American members will have a hard time with them. The church will adapt more completely to local conditions and be less tied to standing institutions like the three hour block, having church buildings everywhere there is a congregation, shifting missionary assignments, and other changes.

We live in interesting times.

Then again it might just all be idle wind.

I've noticed some idle wind emanates from John Dehlin's quarters.

 

I have been quietly tracking one rumor he spread that was supposed to have been imminent, but it has now been nearly a year and a half since the rumor emerged. I won't say what it is, because I don't want to dredge it up again.

 

Which leads me to wonder how much of this stuff can be chalked up to wishful thinking.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[savedbygrace]

What other churches get examples of drama queens and kings like this.  Is there "mass resignations" events held in front of Catholic or Baptist churches.  Do Jews who are leaving the fold put on a show like this?

I don't understand why this has to be so public. Leaving any church is intensely personal and can be traumatic, and it usually accompanied by a long period of soul searching. I don't feel it should be done to make a point as that some how cheapens the whole experience

[busybee]

I think the biggest problem is when formerly active, middle class members resign.

Obviously "all are alike unto God", but when it comes to running a Church (especially tithing and competent leadership), there are very few members who are willing and capable of running the program and donating a full tithe to sustain it.  If these members are resigning, it could be a huge problem for the Church.  And from what I've seen over the last 10 years, many of the resignations are those caliber of LDS (and from families of that caliber).

 

It's great that a bunch of eight year olds were baptized yesterday, but it will be at least 10 years before some portion of them are able to go on missions, and years after that that an even smaller portion is ready to pay significant tithing and serve in leadership positions.

Let's be honest. I doubt many of these people were paying tithing or filling callings as capable leaders in recent times.

 

If we are basing the church's 'loss' on those two things then there isn't really any loss.

 

However, if you're counting it as the loss of souls, then it becomes a much greater than losing their tithing contributions and their willingness to serve in callings. The worth of SOULS is great and it is a sad day when people decide to trade their souls for temporary 'joy'.

[KevinG]

When did the LDS Church start celebrating mass?

[thesometimesaint]

When did the LDS Church start celebrating mass?

 

Every Sunday. We just call it by a different name "Sacrament Meeting".

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Every soul matters.

 

Thanks,

 

-Smac

Smac you are a better person than my self. I really don't care that they leave. It is their own choice. And they want attention. Well they are not going to get it from me.

[Zakuska]

Thread better named....

 

"Mass Resignation NON-event"

[Scott Lloyd]

The context in which "house of cards" was used directly implied the LDS church (as in church membership numbers)

 

I have never claimed to be a scriptorian .  But I do comprehend that my Savior is  Jesus Christ.  

That's great. But don't knock the doctrines if you don't understand them.

[jkwilliams]

If I were going to resign, I'd just send in a letter. But I'm sure that the event meant something to them, so I don't begrudge them doing it. To each his or her own.

[Scott Lloyd]

If I were going to resign, I'd just send in a letter. But I'm sure that the event meant something to them, so I don't begrudge them doing it. To each his or her own.

A contrived opportunity to stick it to the Church of Jesus Christ. That's what it meant.