Flowers For The Mothers In Sac Meeting

[Brian 2.0]

Growing up this was a staple in our ward. Mothers got one. Grandmothers got two. Great grandmothers got three.

Then it changed to one flower to all 18+ women because women that never married or never had kids felt bad.

Then last bishop he took it away completely. And everyone pretty much revolted. But he stuck to his guns.

New bishop this year and flowers for all women is back.

Is this tradition, our variations of it, alive and well around the church? Is there a Mother's Day outside the US?

Anyone dislike the practice?

[Kenngo1969]

What do you think is dislikeable about it?

[Garden Girl]

All of the women 18+ got flowers today... I still did not take one...

In fact, I normally do not attend Church on Mother's Day but I had to today because the other Librarian was absent.  Why don't I attend Church?  Because I.... (well, I think I'll stop here rather than introduce too negative a tone to the thread... suffice it to say that it is difficult to be a single sister with no children in this very family oriented Church). 

 

GG

 

 

[strappinglad]

There is a segment of women in the church who don't like Mother's day celebrated at church. They feel "less than " while the talks are given and find the whole thing discouraging even though it is meant as a compliment. A different group think that one day is good to focus on women and they appreciate whatever is said and done. The men just normally do whatever they are told. It's one of those danged if you do danged if you don't type of things.

Personally....um... I don't have an opinion.

[BCSpace]

I'd just make sure to give them at the end of the block; so that may or may not be after sacrement meeting depending on where you are.

[Duncan]

We had stake conference and Mother's day was mentioned but I think they are doing things next sunday. Every woman gets flowers or cash or something

[Sevenbak]

My wife, after several year of infertility, despised Mother's day at church.  It's not as bad now that we have children, but we can certainly understand why it's a good idea to open recognition to all adult ladies in the word.  It's just nice and polite. The whole thing is really a foolish tradition of men, so to speak, so nazi rules need not apply...

[mfbukowski]

Growing up this was a staple in our ward. Mothers got one. Grandmothers got two. Great grandmothers got three.

Then it changed to one flower to all 18+ women because women that never married or never had kids felt bad.

Then last bishop he took it away completely. And everyone pretty much revolted. But he stuck to his guns.

New bishop this year and flowers for all women is back.

Is this tradition, our variations of it, alive and well around the church? Is there a Mother's Day outside the US?

Anyone dislike the practice?

Blasphemy! Stone this man!

[Scott Lloyd]

I remained single for so long, they eventually started giving me the Father's Day tokens out of pity.

Then I got married. We have four kids now, but our ward has long since stopped handing out the tokens on Father's Day. Oh well.

[Rain]

Still alive in our ward.

Hate the practice.

I have children. I don't have a problem with not measuring up and it's odd to me that anyone should feel that anymore on mother's day than any other Sunday. Rather, I think the Spirit should guide us in changing instead of feeling bad that I'm not perfect.

I just don't understand why we have to cause so much pain for childless women and women who have lost children or mothers to death or to the ways of the world when sacrament meeting should be focused on the Savior.

Just once I would love the bishop to get up the week before and say, "sisters, we recognize mother's day may be a difficult day for some. Next week, on mother's day, the talks will not be about mothers, but about how the atonement brings peace into our lives. If normally you don't attend, please come next week."

It's not like we have to ignore mother's day. We can still give gifts or make phone calls etc. That is so much more personal than the awkward tradition of giving something to every woman or only the moms.

Just a few minutes ago I asked my DH if he ever became bishop to please pray over that idea. He told me he didn't know if he could do that because he didn't want to hear another 25 minute lecture in ward council about how mother's day should be celebrated at church - from a man. (He didn't mean he wouldn't pray over it. He was just expressing that he wouldn't delight in dealing with it all.)

I think the talks come from the heart and I appreciate the respect that comes from the speaker. My own daughter gave a beautiful talk today about how personal progress helps one to become a better mom (assigned topic). It coincided with her getting her medallion today. But isn't a lack of sincerity or even the topic that bothers me. It is continuing year after year to have the whole mother's day focus, knowing that women who we love are feeling pain and staying home for something that isn't necessary that really irritates me.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Rain

[mfbukowski]

All of the women 18+ got flowers today... I still did not take one...

In fact, I normally do not attend Church on Mother's Day but I had to today because the other Librarian was absent. Why don't I attend Church? Because I.... (well, I think I'll stop here rather than introduce too negative a tone to the thread... suffice it to say that it is difficult to be a single sister with no children in this very family oriented Church).

GG

You are not alone in this.

I know several- yes, several- single and married but childless sisters who do not attend church on a "holiday" that serves no more purpose than selling greeting cards.

Edited May 11, 2015 by mfbukowski

[JAHS]

You know how they always give the mothers lots of loving praise and honor in the talks on Mother's day and on Father's day the fathers get a lecture on how to be better fathers, right?  Well today on Mother's Day one of the speakers actually gave a talk on how the men could be better husbands. The speaker handled it well, but I thought we only had to endure that kind of thing on Father's Day.  

Edited May 11, 2015 by JAHS

[Brian 2.0]

I don't really have much fire either way about the tradition. It's always just been that, a tradition. But I'm curious to hear thoughts on it from people that do have strong opinions on it.

[Brian 2.0]

We had stake conference and Mother's day was mentioned but I think they are doing things next sunday. Every woman gets flowers or cash or something

Wait... CASH!

where is your ward? And how can I become a woman?

[Brian 2.0]

As has been mentioned... There are a number of women who don't like attending on Mother's Day. Has anyone ever heard the same from men on Father's Day?

What is the root difference? Is the program or content different? Is there anything that should change?

[mfbukowski]

As has been mentioned... There are a number of women who don't like attending on Mother's Day. Has anyone ever heard the same from men on Father's Day?

What is the root difference? Is the program or content different? Is there anything that should change?

I love father's day, because I get to sit with my family, instead of being in meetings. Same for Mother's day actually.

But that's the only reason. Another meaningless "holiday", imo.

[hagoth7]

As has been mentioned... There are a number of women who don't like attending on Mother's Day. Has anyone ever heard the same from men on Father's Day?

What is the root difference? Is the program or content different? Is there anything that should change?

My wife and I were childless for over two decades, and chose to be absent on most Mothers' Days and Fathers' Days for the reasons already described above. It simply got too painful. Most people with kids simply don't get it. There was a great article yesterday on LDS.net about being childless in the church.

[strappinglad]

I just went to the fountain of all, I mean some, knowledge ie. Wikipedia , and read about the history of Mothers day and Fathers day. Really interesting stuff, particularly about Anna Jarvis ,who is credited with promoting the day in the US. It is a cautionary tale about being careful what you wish for. Fathers Day, as is appropriate, was more or less an afterthought and didn't get national recognition until 1966. Both days are now celebrated worldwide but they can fall on different dates. So as to be politically correct , there are now Siblings day and Parents day and whatever your preferred Relatives day. I know( OK I believe ) that if all of those days weren't good for business, they wouldn't exist.

[maklelan]

There is a segment of women in the church who don't like Mother's day celebrated at church. They feel "less than " while the talks are given and find the whole thing discouraging even though it is meant as a compliment. 

 

I can certainly understand how someone might experience emotional pain attending a sacrament meeting where a relationship they are physically unable to experience is highlighted as the most important and exalted one to which a human can attain, and those involved in it are celebrated and given gifts. What I don't understand so well is how someone could think that pointing out it is meant as a compliment somehow eases or eradicates that pain, or even makes that individual think their feelings matter at all.

[Buckeye]

Growing up this was a staple in our ward. Mothers got one. Grandmothers got two. Great grandmothers got three.

Then it changed to one flower to all 18+ women because women that never married or never had kids felt bad.

Then last bishop he took it away completely. And everyone pretty much revolted. But he stuck to his guns.

New bishop this year and flowers for all women is back.

Is this tradition, our variations of it, alive and well around the church? Is there a Mother's Day outside the US?

Anyone dislike the practice?

 

My ward did flowers until about 5 years ago when we switched to chocolates. Now its chocolates or cookies, but always dessert themed. Bishopric oversees the creation of the gift (often meaning the bishopric's wives take this on) and then the young men pass them out immediately following sacrament. All women get the gifts, not just mothers. Some eat them immediatly (or more realistically their kids do). Some pocket them in their purse. Getting the kids to primary after sacrament is extra "fun" considering we have less time and some of the kids just got cookies while others did not.

 

Something similar happens on fathers day, with the RS presidency preparing the gifts (pretty sure its actually the RS, not their husbands) and the young women passing them out to all men, not just fathers. We don't have purses to stash the food into, so invariably 100% of the offerings are gone by the start of sunday school.

 

As for sacrament talks, we had two women speakers (one of which was a young woman), followed by songs by primary kids and closing remarks by a man. All in all pretty typical. My wife cringed at some of the comments made by the final speaker who went to some lengths to explain how women are better than men (more religious, more spiritual, comfortable with their roles). She's not as strong a feminist as me, but having three roughly teen-age boys she understands the negative impact gender comparisons often have for young men.

 

We're just one data point, but I can report to Mrs. Buckeye rather dislikes mother's day at church (really likes it at home). That may sound a little odd considering she's right in the wheelhouse - stay at home mom of 5 kids who are successful in sports, school and church activities. By the end of the church block she's gotten about 2 dozen cards, paper flowers, treats, and other trinkets that each kids' primary and youth classes seem determined to make. You'd think she has the perfect day, but really it's all too much for her. She'd prefer a simple service focused on something other than herself.

 

For myself, I rather like mother's day services for two reasons. First, our bishopric always cancels morning meetings, so this is one of the few sundays the past decade when I've been able to drive to church with the family (the others being conferences). Second, the past few years we've started have a combined 'all women' meeting the third hour which means the young men (I'm the YMP) are tasked with teaching primary (YW also attend the 'all women' meeting). The young men consistently step up to the plate and prepare great lessons. It's kind of a highlight of the year as they really get to be teachers. I see more growth in them this one Sunday than a typical 3-4 months.

 

FWIW, I tend to think that the root of the problems associated with mothers day at church is that men are in charge and, while well intentioned, all we can think up is that women like to be put on pedestals. Opening up roles where women have leadership authority equal to men will help solve this (not a panacea but a strong help). It may also improve things for father's day - where I could gripe about consistent inequalities such as morning meetings never being canceled and missionaries not being allowed to call home. Why? Well because motherhood is more important than fatherhood, of course, and kids don't really need time with fathers, they just need to be provided for and presided over. I wouldn't be surprised if the church changed the policy to allow missionary calls on fathers day - that is unless some members start petitioning for this obviously good change first, and the church is "forced" to wait a decade more just to keep up the appearance that change doesn't come from below.

 

Edit to add: another challenge with women-focused sundays is that we have relative little working material. Consider that one of the most popular mother's day song is "O My Father" - just because it references the existence of a heavenly mother in one verse. And consider that one of the most popular scripture verses concerns 2,000 young men at war - just because those verses reflect the fact that their mothers had a positive influence on their choices. I hate to say that mother's day sacrament meetings are often boring, but that's often the case because we just rehash the same limited material. For me, the best talks branch out into person stories of real motherhood - not pedestal stories, but down to earth reality.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Buckeye

[Rain]

I can certainly understand how someone might experience emotional pain attending a sacrament meeting where a relationship they are physically unable to experience is highlighted as the most important and exalted one to which a human can attain, and those involved in it are celebrated and given gifts. What I don't understand so well is how someone could think that pointing out it is meant as a compliment somehow eases or eradicates that pain, or even makes that individual think their feelings matter at all.

It's not that a complement erases the pain from someone childless. There are two (at least) things going on. 1. Some women are childless and 2. Some women feel that the meeting is a list of wonderful things they are not and it makes them feel they are lesser. In cases like this, some people feel that if they point out these things are complements they see women have then these woman should not feel lesser.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Rain

[Boanerges]

A couple years ago our RSP (divorced older sister, lives alone) asked the bishop to consider doing something different than flowers on Mother's Day. This year each adult sister got a little gift bag thing of chocolate covered pretzels, yogurt dipped peanuts, and simialr stuff. In RS meeting they also had hors doeuvres, fruit, and cinnamon rolls (mostly bought, but prepared by men). I think it's kind of nice, not exclusive, but having been single until I was 30 I understand the single point of view during these types of things.

 

FWIW, for father's day the women serve a brunch during priesthood and we eat in our meetings (yes, the YM also get food).

Edited May 11, 2015 by Boanerges

[maklelan]

It's not that saying it is a complement erases the pain from someone childless. People see there are two (at least) things going on. 1. Some women are childless and 2. Some women feel that the meeting is a list of wonderful things they are not and it makes them feel they are lesser. In cases like this, some people feel that if they point out these things are complements they see women have then these woman should not feel lesser.

 

The pain of childlessness is one thing. The pain of a sacrament meeting exalting motherhood in the face of a childless person is another thing entirely, and if people think that pointing out that these things are intended as compliments does anything at all to help those women feel any less than, they are in need of an education. If anything, it just highlights how little those people understand––or want to understand––the needs and feelings of the women, which tends to exacerbate the problem.

[GingerRed]

Yeah I agree , the heck with flowers, bring on the chocolate!!  LOL

 

They gave us flowers today ( little potted ones)  I took one to give to my roommate who was a mom ( she lost bother her sons , stillborn) but shes also 'mom' to her cat  

 

In our Relief Society , our speaker was emphasizing this was 'Woman's Day' instead of Mother's Day. That was nice, since we have a lot of single sisters in our ward ( mostly older widows)  I'm glad to see a Sister actually sensitive to her audience

 

Red

[Buckeye]

The pain of childlessness is one thing. The pain of a sacrament meeting exalting motherhood in the face of a childless person is another thing entirely, and if people think that pointing out that these things are intended as compliments does anything at all to help those women feel any less than, they are in need of an education. If anything, it just highlights how little those people understand––or want to understand––the needs and feelings of the women, which tends to exacerbate the problem.

 

Hey mak, maybe you've already said this somewhere else, but what would you recommend a bishopric or RSP for their respective meetings on mother's day? The pain you mention is real, but is there any way to avoid that without dropping mother's day entirely? I see this same problem in many areas - for example, a youth who cannot serve a mission due to heath reasons may be pained at missionary addresses given before/after another youth leaves on their mission. I'm not sure how to alleviate that pain though. Motherhood, missions, etc. are good things and so need to be taught and held up as an example to be followed. Short of solving the underlining pain itself - childlessness, heath issues, etc. - what is best way to help this pain?

Edited May 11, 2015 by Buckeye