Flowers For The Mothers In Sac Meeting

[Rain]

The pain of childlessness is one thing. The pain of a sacrament meeting exalting motherhood in the face of a childless person is another thing entirely, and if people think that pointing out that these things are intended as compliments does anything at all to help those women feel any less than, they are in need of an education. If anything, it just highlights how little those people understand––or want to understand––the needs and feelings of the women, which tends to exacerbate the problem.

I agree completely. I just thought you were wondering why people would think giving complements would make the childless feel better and was pointing out that the complements weren't intended to make the childless feel better, but making those feeling lesser feel better.

It makes sense that people would point out that these are complements rather than checklists of what someone is not, but I agree that it doesn't work. If for no other reason, every other Sunday we learn things we need to work on so to suddenly change things up on mother's or father's day it just doesn't work very well though it isn't just as simple as that either.

One of the talks yesterday tried to speak to this group of women yesterday. He talked about a woman in his life who was certainly not perfect, but how this woman had a quality that he really appreciated. I felt his sincerity and appreciated that he was trying to speak to women who feel this way. It may have backfired on him.

Like you say, the complement idea doesn't work and the reasons are varied.

[maklelan]

Hey mak, maybe you've already said this somewhere else, but what would you recommend a bishopric or RSP for their respective meetings on mother's day? The pain you mention is real, but is there any way to avoid that without dropping mother's day entirely? I see this same problem in many areas - for example, a youth who cannot serve a mission due to heath reasons may be pained at missionary addresses given before/after another youth leaves on their mission. I'm not sure how to alleviate that pain though. Motherhood, missions, etc. are good things and so need to be taught and held up as an example to be followed. Short of solving the underlining pain itself - childlessness, heath issues, etc. - what is best way to help this pain?

 

That's a tough question, but my personal feelings are that mother's day is something for families to celebrate. I don't see why the Church has to take ownership or feel obligated to focus on it. Were I a bishop, I'd probably use the opportunity to focus on the value and contributions of our single or childless sisters. I'd have them speak and share their own thoughts and feelings.

Edited May 11, 2015 by maklelan

[Rain]

Yeah I agree , the heck with flowers, bring on the chocolate!! LOL

They gave us flowers today ( little potted ones) I took one to give to my roommate who was a mom ( she lost bother her sons , stillborn) but shes also 'mom' to her cat

In our Relief Society , our speaker was emphasizing this was 'Woman's Day' instead of Mother's Day. That was nice, since we have a lot of single sisters in our ward ( mostly older widows) I'm glad to see a Sister actually sensitive to her audience

Red

And yet, there are people who are diabetic, hypoglycemic, food addicted, watching their calories, allergic to chocolate, not eating sugar or "white" foods and just plain don't like chocolate that would prefer the flowers. One gift just never works for all people and is one more reason not to do it. Edited May 11, 2015 by Rain

[Buckeye]

That's a tough question, but my personal feelings are that mother's day is something for families to celebrate. I don't see why the Church has to take ownership or feel obligated to focus on it. Were I a bishop, I'd probably use the opportunity to focus on the value and contributions of our single or childless sisters. I'd have them speak and share their own thoughts and feelings.

 

That's helpful. I know some sisters in my ward who are comfortable discussing the pain of their childlessness and how they've made their lives positive in other ways - positive for themselves and others. I've seen mother's day when such sisters are part of the program, even a substantial part, but never where they are the entire program.

[maklelan]

That's helpful. I know some sisters in my ward who are comfortable discussing the pain of their childlessness and how they've made their lives positive in other ways - positive for themselves and others. I've seen mother's day when such sisters are part of the program, even a substantial part, but never where they are the entire program.

 

I think it would definitely depend on the constitution of the ward, but wouldn't that be a great way to show that we're not willing to further marginalize a group on precisely the day when they're feeling the most marginalized?

[HappyJackWagon]

Over the last few years Mothers Day has really morphed into a celebration of all women which I think is great. Still, it is very painful for some people. Our speaker yesterday did a great job of facing this head on, acknowledging the pain many feel. She spoke about the ideals we have of women and how no one needs to feel guilty or "less than" for not meeting these ideals. It was a very uplifting and compassionate talk.

Our ladies were given chocolate bars. Mmmm.

Some times for fathers day we get pie.

[Rain]

Hey mak, maybe you've already said this somewhere else, but what would you recommend a bishopric or RSP for their respective meetings on mother's day? The pain you mention is real, but is there any way to avoid that without dropping mother's day entirely? I see this same problem in many areas - for example, a youth who cannot serve a mission due to heath reasons may be pained at missionary addresses given before/after another youth leaves on their mission. I'm not sure how to alleviate that pain though. Motherhood, missions, etc. are good things and so need to be taught and held up as an example to be followed. Short of solving the underlining pain itself - childlessness, heath issues, etc. - what is best way to help this pain?

It's interesting that you mention missions along with this. Farewells used to be a big deal with all the talks, musical numbers and even the prayers being centered about the missionary leaving. Now, in most cases that I have seen the missionary just gives one of the talks.

Mother's Day is even a bigger deal because there are the gifts and it goes into the other meetings. If you cut the whole 3 hour mother's day block into one simple thing it would go a long way - though determining what that simple thing is may be difficult.

[Traela]

In our ward, they give out potted flowers in the serving area, at the end of the block. There initially was a problem with multiple people getting flowers for those who weren't able to come, and then running out for those who were actually there. So now someone has a list of all the women in the ward, and checks them off. It seems to work well, and those who wish to can avoid that end of the building.

The ward that brings me the Sacrament right now (daughter's medical issues) gives out chocolates. A little bag of mixed Hershey's, put together by the Young Men.

[bluebell]

My ward did flowers until about 5 years ago when we switched to chocolates. Now its chocolates or cookies, but always dessert themed. Bishopric oversees the creation of the gift (often meaning the bishopric's wives take this on) and then the young men pass them out immediately following sacrament. All women get the gifts, not just mothers. Some eat them immediatly (or more realistically their kids do). Some pocket them in their purse. Getting the kids to primary after sacrament is extra "fun" considering we have less time and some of the kids just got cookies while others did not.

 

Something similar happens on fathers day, with the RS presidency preparing the gifts (pretty sure its actually the RS, not their husbands) and the young women passing them out to all men, not just fathers. We don't have purses to stash the food into, so invariably 100% of the offerings are gone by the start of sunday school.

 

As for sacrament talks, we had two women speakers (one of which was a young woman), followed by songs by primary kids and closing remarks by a man. All in all pretty typical. My wife cringed at some of the comments made by the final speaker who went to some lengths to explain how women are better than men (more religious, more spiritual, comfortable with their roles). She's not as strong a feminist as me, but having three roughly teen-age boys she understands the negative impact gender comparisons often have for young men.

 

We're just one data point, but I can report to Mrs. Buckeye rather dislikes mother's day at church (really likes it at home). That may sound a little odd considering she's right in the wheelhouse - stay at home mom of 5 kids who are successful in sports, school and church activities. By the end of the church block she's gotten about 2 dozen cards, paper flowers, treats, and other trinkets that each kids' primary and youth classes seem determined to make. You'd think she has the perfect day, but really it's all too much for her. She'd prefer a simple service focused on something other than herself.

 

For myself, I rather like mother's day services for two reasons. First, our bishopric always cancels morning meetings, so this is one of the few sundays the past decade when I've been able to drive to church with the family (the others being conferences). Second, the past few years we've started have a combined 'all women' meeting the third hour which means the young men (I'm the YMP) are tasked with teaching primary (YW also attend the 'all women' meeting). The young men consistently step up to the plate and prepare great lessons. It's kind of a highlight of the year as they really get to be teachers. I see more growth in them this one Sunday than a typical 3-4 months.

 

FWIW, I tend to think that the root of the problems associated with mothers day at church is that men are in charge and, while well intentioned, all we can think up is that women like to be put on pedestals. Opening up roles where women have leadership authority equal to men will help solve this (not a panacea but a strong help). It may also improve things for father's day - where I could gripe about consistent inequalities such as morning meetings never being canceled and missionaries not being allowed to call home. Why? Well because motherhood is more important than fatherhood, of course, and kids don't really need time with fathers, they just need to be provided for and presided over. I wouldn't be surprised if the church changed the policy to allow missionary calls on fathers day - that is unless some members start petitioning for this obviously good change first, and the church is "forced" to wait a decade more just to keep up the appearance that change doesn't come from below.

 

Edit to add: another challenge with women-focused sundays is that we have relative little working material. Consider that one of the most popular mother's day song is "O My Father" - just because it references the existence of a heavenly mother in one verse. And consider that one of the most popular scripture verses concerns 2,000 young men at war - just because those verses reflect the fact that their mothers had a positive influence on their choices. I hate to say that mother's day sacrament meetings are often boring, but that's often the case because we just rehash the same limited material. For me, the best talks branch out into person stories of real motherhood - not pedestal stories, but down to earth reality.

 

I served my mission in 1998-99 and we got to call home on father's day.  

[bluebell]

The pain of childlessness is one thing. The pain of a sacrament meeting exalting motherhood in the face of a childless person is another thing entirely, and if people think that pointing out that these things are intended as compliments does anything at all to help those women feel any less than, they are in need of an education. If anything, it just highlights how little those people understand––or want to understand––the needs and feelings of the women, which tends to exacerbate the problem.

 

What Rain is referring to, and what i think strapping was referring to when he used the word 'compliment', is that there are many women who are mothers who detest mother's day because it makes them feel guilty and like they are horrible mothers (because us women, in general, have martyr complexes and general low self esteem-it appears to be a gender-wide flaw).

 

Those are the women that strapping doesn't understand why compliments make them feel so horrible.  

 

Everyone understands that compliments on mothers day have nothing to offer those women who mourn being childless, or who mourn children who have passed away, etc.  That is a completely different issue.

[bluebell]

In our ward they have two young male speakers (returned missionaries) and three grown men who just came up and shared their testimonies.  The topic of the talks was 'prophets and revelation.'  The men bore their testimonies on that subject and then also mentioned their women and mothers.  The sisters got little bags of hershey kisses at the end of the meeting-the just passed them out at the doors and didn't make us stand up or anything.

 

The primary sang two songs, one for mothers and one for grandmothers.

 

In RS our lesson was on the book of mormon and was from the teachings of the Ezra T. Benson book because that's what was in the schedule.

[HappyJackWagon]

I was talking to a Methodist lady at church this morning. They essentially have the same tradition of flowers or chocolates and sermons based on motherhood. She also acknowledged that many women struggle with this kind of focus. It's certainly one of those things that seems to have good motives and works for many people, but for the single and/or childless or those who simply don't feel like they measure up, it sure is a tough day.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

All of the women 18+ got flowers today... I still did not take one...

In fact, I normally do not attend Church on Mother's Day but I had to today because the other Librarian was absent.  Why don't I attend Church?  Because I.... (well, I think I'll stop here rather than introduce too negative a tone to the thread... suffice it to say that it is difficult to be a single sister with no children in this very family oriented Church). 

 

GG

I have an idea. We can make you the honorary board mom. The one every one goes to for great insight and wisdom. That way you don't have too feel bad about the last part. I can't do anything about the "single" part of your life though.

 

I can't relate to how you feel but I do empathize with your position. I wish you well.

[bluebell]

I was talking to a Methodist lady at church this morning. They essentially have the same tradition of flowers or chocolates and sermons based on motherhood. She also acknowledged that many women struggle with this kind of focus. It's certainly one of those things that seems to have good motives and works for many people, but for the single and/or childless or those who simply don't feel like they measure up, it sure is a tough day.

 

This is actually a problem that crosses all lines.  Mothers, whether religious or atheist, (again in general) tend to hate mother's day.  I have seen countless (more than 20 yesterday alone) blogs written about why mother's day is so horrible or why this woman or that woman hates the day and only one was written by an mormon.   If there is one thing that us women are good at it's feeling badly about ourselves.

 

Edit to add-

 

I don't think that the majority of women hate mother's day but rather that those who hate it now feel able to express themselves while those who don't really can't say anything in support of it because it would be interpreted as being uncaring for other women's feelings.  In other words, it's popular right now to hate mothers day, so that popularity is reflected in articles and blogs.

Edited May 11, 2015 by bluebell

[strappinglad]

Knowing that some men can be obtuse, it would be not unusual for the authorities to pick women speakers who are terrified of giving talks and thus turn an hour of uncomfortable-ness into a couple of weeks of stress. Maybe it is best that the Bishop announce " happy Mother's Day " at the start of the meeting and then just move on. I think most men would hardly notice if Father's Day was ignored at church.

[stemelbow]

It's certainly causes problems and pain. Can't stand the pain I see with everyone, at Church and otherwise. I think I'm going crazy because of it, though. I sat through meetings and then three talks emphasizing motherhood, traditional families, and such. It's a problem, in my mind, with the Church's message these days though. Single people, gay people, ugly people, fat people, poor people, rich people, black people, white people, sick people, healthy people, men, women, kids...we're all feeling pain because of the messages coming at us, and many of us feel we're in our predicaments because life has just hit us and keeps hitting us and we can't catch our breaths. Church, whether on Mother's day or not, is just three more hours in the week I'm meekly feeling nothing but heart-ache, most often for everyone else.

It seems that single and childless women feel the pain because of the messages they hear--they are supposed to be something they are not. It's their eternal role, eternal destiny. I suppose it'll all be made up for in the eternities, but it's no fun watching it in the mean time.

[bluebell]

It's certainly causes problems and pain. Can't stand the pain I see with everyone, at Church and otherwise. I think I'm going crazy because of it, though. I sat through meetings and then three talks emphasizing motherhood, traditional families, and such. It's a problem, in my mind, with the Church's message these days though. Single people, gay people, ugly people, fat people, poor people, rich people, black people, white people, sick people, healthy people, men, women, kids...we're all feeling pain because of the messages coming at us, and many of us feel we're in our predicaments because life has just hit us and keeps hitting us and we can't catch our breaths. Church, whether on Mother's day or not, is just three more hours in the week I'm meekly feeling nothing but heart-ache, most often for everyone else.

It seems that single and childless women feel the pain because of the messages they hear--they are supposed to be something they are not. It's their eternal role, eternal destiny. I suppose it'll all be made up for in the eternities, but it's no fun watching it in the mean time.

 

I really don't think that God is at all happy with us when we spend all our time being sad about something (not speaking about you specifically but just in general).  I don't know what the answer is though.  

 

It's almost like we (again, general 'we') get stuck in this trap where we think that we can't be happier than the saddest person.  

[stemelbow]

I really don't think that God is at all happy with us when we spend all our time being sad about something (not speaking about you specifically but just in general).  I don't know what the answer is though.  

 

It's almost like we (again, general 'we') get stuck in this trap where we think that we can't be happier than the saddest person.

Don't worry about it, even if you do intend to say God is not happy with me. I don't know that God is very happy with me at all due to me feeling sad about the sadness of others. I think I'm plenty happy. I don't think I deserve to be happy at all just knowing someone out there is not happy, though. That makes me feel terrible and small. Kinda leaves me in a miserable place, I guess. But I'd rather be here than anywhere else right now, which in a sad way makes me feel a little happier than if I were in a different place.

You call it a trap, I call it exactly where I fit.

[Jeanne]

We had stake conference and Mother's day was mentioned but I think they are doing things next sunday. Every woman gets flowers or cash or something

Cash????  I'm a Mommie... Young mothers love the primary Mother's Day program..(do they still do that)?  But the rest is kind of "ho-hum" as it really is another day..for Mom to cook dinner...

[Jeanne]

It's certainly causes problems and pain. Can't stand the pain I see with everyone, at Church and otherwise. I think I'm going crazy because of it, though. I sat through meetings and then three talks emphasizing motherhood, traditional families, and such. It's a problem, in my mind, with the Church's message these days though. Single people, gay people, ugly people, fat people, poor people, rich people, black people, white people, sick people, healthy people, men, women, kids...we're all feeling pain because of the messages coming at us, and many of us feel we're in our predicaments because life has just hit us and keeps hitting us and we can't catch our breaths. Church, whether on Mother's day or not, is just three more hours in the week I'm meekly feeling nothing but heart-ache, most often for everyone else.

It seems that single and childless women feel the pain because of the messages they hear--they are supposed to be something they are not. It's their eternal role, eternal destiny. I suppose it'll all be made up for in the eternities, but it's no fun watching it in the mean time.

I know my nieces and daughter feel this way...like already they wonder what is the matter with them????

[strappinglad]

it really is another day..for Mom to cook dinner...

Well then ,men should get the dinner that day, like at the Ritz , or Arbys , or (cough) McDs.

[thesometimesaint]

I like it, my wife doesn't. We have 3 children and 5 grands. We don't often miss church services, and yesterday was the first in a long time. We have a grand-nephew on a mission in Montana/Wyoming. He called my wife yesterday. He loves his mission and is doing well.

[bluebell]

Don't worry about it, even if you do intend to say God is not happy with me. I don't know that God is very happy with me at all due to me feeling sad about the sadness of others. I think I'm plenty happy. I don't think I deserve to be happy at all just knowing someone out there is not happy, though. That makes me feel terrible and small. Kinda leaves me in a miserable place, I guess. But I'd rather be here than anywhere else right now, which in a sad way makes me feel a little happier than if I were in a different place.

You call it a trap, I call it exactly where I fit.

 

I don't call it a trap (and i'm sorry but i'm not really sure what you were saying in the first paragraph).  I think this is a problem that most people struggle with, myself included.

 

I just think that if satan's goal is to spread misery, but he can't get people to do things to make themselves feel miserable, trying to get people to feel miserable on behalf of someone else is a very workable option.

 

And it must really be a coup for him if he can get us to be miserable because we feel its the best most loving way to respond to the misery around us.  

[rockpond]

Growing up this was a staple in our ward. Mothers got one. Grandmothers got two. Great grandmothers got three.

Then it changed to one flower to all 18+ women because women that never married or never had kids felt bad.

Then last bishop he took it away completely. And everyone pretty much revolted. But he stuck to his guns.

New bishop this year and flowers for all women is back.

Is this tradition, our variations of it, alive and well around the church? Is there a Mother's Day outside the US?

Anyone dislike the practice?

 

Our ward does not give anything out at the end of Sacrament Mtg.  Instead, we relieve the sisters (ALL adult sisters) of their teaching responsibilities during the third hour of the block and send them all to RS where we provide them with a spread of fruit, chocolate, and other refreshments.  They mingle, have a short lesson, and enjoy some "sister time".  The feedback we've gotten has been overwhelmingly positive.

[bluebell]

Cash????  I'm a Mommie... Young mothers love the primary Mother's Day program..(do they still do that)?  But the rest is kind of "ho-hum" as it really is another day..for Mom to cook dinner...

 

What??  Your hubby doesn't make you dinner?!!  

 

Sounds like you might need to mention that to him next year!